Results 1 - 3 of 3
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | cut off | Rom 11:22 | Robert Nicholson | 33287 | ||
Brother Zach: To suggest that we can lose our salvation goes against the promise of the Lord Jesus "That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" John 3:16 Your reference to Romans 11 21- 22: This chapter is discussing how that Israel because of unbelief had been set aside and that God has turned to the Gentiles by his grace. This is in a national sense. In this chapter it is made clear that individuals from all nations by faith can be saved. Romans 8:23. His warning to the Gentiles as a whole is " do not be puffed up in pride, you have nothing to boast of, it is the grace of God that in his sovereign mercy cut of the tame branches (Israel) that we the Gentiles the ( Wild branches) could be grafted in. I believe that God is speaking to Jews nationally and Gentiles as a group. The great mystery which was hid from the prophets was that the Gentiles who were outside of the promises of God, would be brought into God's favor by faith in Jesus Christ. In v. 23 makes it clear that individual Jews as well if Gentiles can be faith as individuals be grafted in. In this time or dispensation of God's grace the invitation to salavtion is to the "Whosoever will" regardless of race or creed. Thank God his promise takes me in. Lose our salvation???? John 15 is talking about abiding in him. In John 15:6-10 the word IF can be also translated "Since". Since I am in him and his is the one that keeps me safe in his hand, I can never lose my soul. I do not believe that the scripture supports salvation which is dependent upon works. Works is the fruit which results from knowing the Lord Jesus and the external proof that we have salvation through him. I am aware that there are those who disagree with this truth. The Lord Jesus made many positive statements which assures us that upon receiving or trusting him "we have eternal life". Eternal cannot be defined as temporary life. This is the wonderful thing of the Gift of God through Christ, that to us it is unmerited and yet by his grace he offers to us the forgiveness of sins and personal relationship as sons through faith in him. Praise his precious name. Robert |
||||||
2 | cut off | Rom 11:22 | Curtnsally | 33322 | ||
Brother Robert I'm not sure that I generally disagree with your theology, but I want to make you think about your argument for it. You said, "I do not believe that the scripture supports salvation which is dependent upon works" No debate here based on Ephesians 2:8-9. Then you said, "The Lord Jesus made many positive statements which assures us that upon receiving or trusting him "we have eternal life". Isn't that theology dependent on works... ie, WE have to "receive and trust" Him in order to be saved? Isn't that something WE do? Ephesians 2:-9 says that we are saved by grace through faith... and this is not of ourselves... thus, even our faith is a gift from God. Romans 3:11 says that no one seeks for God. If these things are so, then we have eternal life purely as a gift from God, not of our own works. More to the original point, in Matthew 13 (the parable of the sower) tells us 20 The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away. So Jesus is saying that it is possible to hear God's word and RECEIVE it, and yet fall away. Now I realize that we could debate whether the man was really saved. I would postulate that your John 3:16 defense is based on the notion that if I trust God at some point, I will always trust God. This may be true, but I don't think John 3:16 says this. Matthew 13:20-21 seems to refute this. And just to muddy the water a little more: 2 Thessalonians 2 13 But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God CHOSE you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth. John 10:27-30 says that the sheep cannot be snatched from the shepherd's hand, and that the sheep are given to the shepherd by his father. Matthew 22:14 "For many are called, but few are chosen." Mark 13 19 "For those days will be a time of tribulation such as has not occurred since the beginning of the creation which God created until now, and never will. 20 "Unless the Lord had shortened those days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the ELECT, whom He CHOSE, He shortened the days. John 15 15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose me, but I CHOSE you and appointed you to go and bear fruit--fruit that will last. Then the Father will give you whatever you ask in my name. Ephesians 1 3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For He CHOSE us in Him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in His sight. In love 5 He PREDESTINED us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with His pleasure and will-- I don't bring these verses up to be obnoxious. I truly struggle with the notion of God choosing us, yet Scripture is full of this concept. God chooses to save whom he will, as in Abraham, Noah, the OT Jews, up through the disciples, Paul and you and me apparently. This is relevant to the original point because, if God chooses us, can we unchoose God? A lot to ponder. In Him Curt |
||||||
3 | cut off | Rom 11:22 | Robert Nicholson | 33390 | ||
Brother Curt: Thank you for your response. The forum would be very boring if we simply agreed on everything. I think that it is God’s will that we follow the example of the Bereans’ “ They searched the scriptures daily, whether these things be so” (Acts 17:11) I am sending this in two parts, since I am having trouble losing my posts when I go to preview. Your struggle regarding God’s sovereignty and man’s responsibility is common to most Christians. We know that God will bring about his plans and purposes as he will. As our creator we have no right to accuse him (Rom.9:20). When humankind fell into sin, God could have wiped them from the scene. However, this was not his will. His will was that he might bring sinful humans back into fellowship with himself through Christ. I think the example of Adam is helpful in understanding God’s workings with us. Adam and Eve disobeyed God and brought sin into the world. There sin broke the communion which they once had with God and they hid in the garden from him. God knew this! Yet in his grace he calls Adam “Where art thou?” and asks “what hast thou done?” It seemed that before God would do anything regarding his sin he wanted an honest confession first. We find that after this that God clothed them with the skins of animals which is the first instance of atonement by blood. As I am sure you know that from that time onward, in order to cover their sin, humans were instructed to offer an innocent, living sacrifice unto God. In Hebrews 10 we read that those sacrifices of old were only types and shadows of Christ. “But this man after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God. Ephesians is a book which was written to those “in Christ” to tell them of what they had come into in Christ. That all believers are part of the church which is his body Eph. 1:23 (there are no counterfeits here) This positional truth makes it clear that all we have in Christ is due to God’s grace alone. In v3. we find that “he hath blessed us with ALL spiritual blessings in the heavenlies in Christ” In v.5 amazingly we find that his eye was on us before the world was made “chosen in him before the foundation of the world” to what purpose? “that we should be holy and without blame before him in love.” In addition, he has “predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ...”V.5 This family relationship places us as sons in the family of God. Paul expands on this in Romans 8:17 “And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together”. In Eph. 1:6 we find that our acceptance to God is based on his acceptance of his own son, “wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.” This positional truth is not dealing so much with our failures within ourselves, but would raise us up and make us appreciate in a measure what we have in Christ. This position which is assured by his acceptance is unalterable. I will send part 2 in a few minutes Robert |
||||||