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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | cut off | Rom 11:22 | zach† | 33235 | ||
What does the term "cut of" refer to in Rom. 11:21-22? Is this comparable to to John 15:2? And does this mean we can lose our salvation? | ||||||
2 | cut off | Rom 11:22 | Curtnsally | 33265 | ||
Let's start with this Scripture: John 15 1 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. 5 "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you. 8 This is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples. This verse says it is impossible to bear fruit unless we are "in Christ". The branches that are pruned are ones that bear no fruit. Thus they represent those who are not in Christ (ie "those who fell" in the Romans 11 verse). Continuing the thought, how about Matthew 13... 18 "Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20 The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away. 22 The one who received the seed that fell among the thorns is the man who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it, making it unfruitful. 23 But the one who received the seed that fell on good soil is the man who hears the word and understands it. He produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown." These verses seem to say that one can hear God's Word and understand it and have faith and then lose it. And then we have John 10... 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. This verse seems to say that those who are saved cannot be snatched from God's hand. The juxtaposition of these two concepts tells us this, in my humble opinion: That those who are saved will bear fruit, and that those who are saved cannot be taken by Satan. Further, those who are not saved will not bear fruit, and those who are not saved will fall to Satan. Finally, the John 15 verse tells us that there is a process to our salvation that includes hearing God's Word, remaining in God's Word (in thought, heart and action), and producing fruit as a result. This is not to say that salvation is the result of God plus us... rather, it is God in us that brings salvation. I think we can proceed down the path toward God, and then fall away. If we truly reach the point of "God in us" I think Jesus protects us, as the only shepherd can. This is a tough question, as one could also debate the correlative issue... "free will" vs "the elect" ... did we choose God or did He choose us? In Him Curt |
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3 | in Him | Rom 11:22 | zach† | 33279 | ||
Curt thank you for taking time to answer this as i am yet trying to collect my thoughts on this. However the one thing I notice in John 15:2 is that there are 2 types of branches, but I see that even the branch that does not bear fruit is said to be "in Me" meaning in Christ. And to be in Christ is to be his. Also see 2 Cor. 5:17 where it states: 'if any man be IN CHRIST he is a new creature." I think the "in Him" of John 15:2 is never looked at or taken into account. Do you have any other thoughts concerning this touchy topic? zach |
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4 | in Him | Rom 11:22 | 33314 | |||
That's right. There are branches(members in Christ's body) that are not bearing fruit(of righteous living). But this is the end or purpose of joining into the vine - to walk in newness of life, that is to be fruitful, Ro. 6:4. Consider I Co. 3:1-4. Paul wrote to the Corinthian branches of the vine. He called them "brethren" and yet they lived carnally. |
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