Results 1 - 2 of 2
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | when a I saved and when baptised | Rom 10:9 | humbledbyhisgrace | 189607 | ||
AO, This is indicative of one arguing a belief rooted in the teaching of man and not scripture! I will leave the unfounded accusation for you to deal with. That's between you and God and not much I can do there to help you with. I will reference once again a passage of scripture for you and others to compare your opening teachings with scripture (Ephesians 2:8-9). You said "The requirement of baptism for salvation has been contested since the later half of the first century, but Scripture is indeed clear on its necessity." I agree. The problem is not that it's required, but when it is said it's required for salvation! Go back and read my first post in this thread. You will see I agree 100 percent that it is required. Required because it is a commandment from God. But it is not required for salvation! Salvation is a gift given to you before you are baptized and I have pointed out to you scripture that clearly teaches this! If Acts 2:38 is interpreted as you interpret it, then we must reject other scripture. For example, what do you do with the following scriptures if your interpretation of Acts 2:38 is correct (John 3:16, Romans 4:1-17, Romans 11:6, Galatians 3:8-9, Ephesians 2:8-9, etc...)? You say in reference to Acts 2:38 "They chose to repent and be baptized in order to receive the Holy Spirit." Yes they did! But does this mean what you claim it means? I say no and again, I offer from scripture the argument that you are teaching this scripture wrong. Acts 10:44-48 (NASB) 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. 45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered, 47 "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?" 48 And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days. Romans 8:9 says that if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. Romans 8:9 (NASB) 9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. Now, go back and note in Acts 10:44-46 that the Gentiles had received the Holy Spirit. This was before they were baptized! In reference to Acts 8:36 you say " He excitedly chose to be baptized as soon as it was physically possible." Agreed! I excitedly chose to be baptized as soon as I could also after I was saved. But please tell me how this verse validates your teaching? In reference to Acts 16:32-34 you say " They were immediately baptized. Why not wait until the rest of their friends and family could witness the event? Because they were acting on their faith that the words presented to them were the command of God." Again, does this prove your claim one must be baptized to be saved? Of course not, interesting how you left out Acts 16:31 which clearly says, Acts 16:31 (NASB) They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." In reference to John 14:15 - I'm assuming your are trying to use this verse to argue salvation requires baptism??? Please explain! In reference to what you say about 1 Peter 3:21 Brother, I truly do not mean to be argumentative and I hope it is understood between you and I that we are brothers in Christ. But it is of utmost importance that we exalt the truth found in God's word. In context of this scripture and in context of the whole counsel of God's word this is a sad interpretation of this passage. I urge you to stand on the teaching found in scripture and not that taught to you by mankind! For your edification, an easy way to discern if you are fallowing the teachings of man is to gauge it by how far from scripture you are! Just my opinion! If it were true as you teach it " Baptism now saves you by being the final step to the grace offered through the blood of Christ. God could not make it any clearer, “Baptism now saves you” Then tell me what we do with a multitude of scripture that your teaching clearly contradicts? You are building a doctrine on one portion of a single scripture. How is it you can miss in the very same verse what is said ("not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience through the resurrection of Jesus Christ ..." How do you answer the scriptures I have already pointed out to you that clearly teach us the Gentiles in Acts 44-48 had received the Holy Spirit before they had been baptized? Your brother in Christ, Steve |
||||||
2 | when a I saved and when baptised | Rom 10:9 | Aspiring Overseer | 189706 | ||
Dear Steve, Thank you for your reply and please forgive my delayed response. Your shear number of verses require a bit of work to address! You previously wrote in part: “If Acts 2:38 is interpreted as you interpret it, then we must reject other scripture. For example, what do you do with the following scriptures if your interpretation of Acts 2:38 is correct (John 3:16, Romans 4:1-17, Romans 11:6, Galatians 3:8-9, Ephesians 2:8-9, etc...)?” Letting Acts 2:38 speak for itself (as we should with all scripture), the gift of the Holy Spirit (salvation) is only received after water baptism. We should note that this is a gift received by all those who have believed, confessed, repented and are baptized. The baptism you refer to for Cornelius and his family was the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Only completed twice in the Christian Age; once for the first Gentile converts and once for the first Jewish converts (the Apostles). Thus we have the example of the very first preaching of the Gospel of Christ: Acts 2:38 38 And Peter said to them, "Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. NAS Now, the other verses you list as being irreconcilable are: John 3:16 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. NAS We should note that “should” as in “should not perish” is completely conditional and must be subject to something else (i.e. obedience) and thus can not be honestly used to support the “grace alone” doctrine. Romans 4:3 3 For what does the Scripture say? "And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness." NAS We know that Abraham believed God because he did what he was commanded to do. He moved to another land, he offered up his son, etc.. All things requiring action (James 2:21-23) Romans 11:6-7 6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. NAS The works referenced are works of the Mosaic Law. Fulfilled by Christ and no longer applicable (Romans 11:1-24) Galatians 3:6 6 Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness. NAS It was only though Abraham’s actions that his faith was proven and the previous scripture fulfilled (James 2:21-23). Finally, Ephesians 2:8-9 simply does not say God requires nothing of His people for salvation. In fact, verse 10 specifically states that we were created for the good works God has commanded of all Christians. The passage, in context, instructs us that God’s plan of salvation was not brought about by any action of man, either Jew or Gentile, but is God’s gift to man through Christ Jesus. There was nothing any of us could have done to cause God to send His Son to be our sacrifice for sin. It was solely His choice; His design. Ephesians 2:8-10 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, that no one should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. NAS As an added bonus, we can also note that the Apostle Paul taught the reason for his own water baptism was to wash away sins. Acts 22:16-17 16'And now why do you delay? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.' NAS If Paul’s sins had not been cleansed, how could he have been saved? In fact, he was not saved until he emerged from the waters of baptism, having fulfilled God’s commandment leading to eternal life. Best regards, AO |
||||||