Results 1 - 10 of 10
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | when a I saved and when baptised | Rom 10:9 | humbledbyhisgrace | 189388 | ||
Greetings revjackl! Welcome to the Study Bible Forum! I was reading your post and brother lionheart's response to you. I have to admit, I'm a bit like brother lionheart regarding your post. Perhaps it is just the way you worded it that has us confused on your teaching. I don't mean to speak for brother lionheart but I see his point and had some of the same thoughts when I read your post. Would you mind expounding a bit on the last part of your post? Let me say this so perhaps you can understand my confusion regarding your post. When you say " When you have truly accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Savior you will know and as yo go through witnessing that you have accepted him in your heart, that assurance of being saved by grace through faith is anchored inside of you. When this happens you will want to be baptized as a sign the you know you are forgiven of your sins and adopted into the royal family of christian believers. " Can we point to scripture that teaches this? Why do we teach this and fail to point out to the new converts that baptism was instituted by God Himself John 1:33 . Christ confirmed this when speaking to the chief priests and elders of the Jews Matthew 21:25 . And lets not forget, it is a commandment of our Lord that His disciples be baptized Matthew 28:19 . I completely agree with scripture and the teaching found in Ephesians 2:8-10 . I am in no way pushing salvation by works. But I firmly believe as a child of God we are expected to be obedient and comply with the commandments of God as He has commanded them. We should not get baptized as a sign that we know we are forgiven of our sins etc... but as an act of obedience to the commandment of our Lord. It may publicly symbolize to the church what has taken place in our hearts but I would argue the important thing is that in our hearts we should be motivated to please God through obedience to His command! We should instruct the new converts that their obligation is to God first and foremost and in what ever God has commanded of His people, we are required to be obedient. I fear we fail them and dishonor God when we lead them to believe compliance of His commandments is of their own choosing or in this case it is a matter of a sign to the individual and/or church what has taken place. It has nothing at all to do with legalism or salvation by works etc... but everything to do with humbling ourselves in submission to God in obedience to Him! Steve H. |
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2 | when a I saved and when baptised | Rom 10:9 | Aspiring Overseer | 189485 | ||
Steve, Thank you for an excellent post. Some folks may be confused by John’s baptism versus Christian baptism so I have taken the liberty to expand slightly on your work. Though John 1:33 and Matthew 21:25 refer to John's baptism, which has been supplanted, Christian baptism is unquestionably a commandment of God and must be obeyed for salvation. I have listed some of the verses here for easier following. God sent John to baptize and thereby establish its precedent. John the Baptist said, John 1:33 33 "And I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, 'He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the one who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.' NAS Jesus confirmed John’s action was commanded by God. While not the same as Christian baptism, it foreshadowed its arrival. Matthew 21:25 25 "The baptism of John was from what source, from heaven or from men?" And they began reasoning among themselves, saying, "If we say, 'From heaven,' He will say to us, 'Then why did you not believe him?' NAS The Lord commands his disciples to baptize. Although given before the Church began, Christ confirms the action. Matthew 28:18-20 19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age. " NAS And, finally, Peter confirms the Lord’s command for baptism in the current age. Acts 10:48 48 And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days. NAS As you so succinctly wrote, “It has nothing at all to do with legalism or salvation by works etc... but everything to do with humbling ourselves in submission to God in obedience to Him!”. Best regards, AO |
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3 | when a I saved and when baptised | Rom 10:9 | humbledbyhisgrace | 189505 | ||
AO, I fear you misunderstand me! The point of my post was to point out the lack of teaching baptism is a commandment to us by God and we should be obedient to His commandments. Not that it was required for salvation. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 (NASB) 15:1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 15:2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. 15:3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 15:4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures Here we have the gospel (v 3-4) which Paul clearly teaches "by which also you are saved" (v 2). Pay close attention that being baptized is not mentioned here! Romans 10:9-10 (NASB) 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. Again, note there is no mention of baptism! Take a look at Acts 10:44-48 Acts 10:44-48 (NASB) 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. 45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered, 47 "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?" 48 And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days. Romans 8:9 says that if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. Romans 8:9 (NASB) 9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. Now, go back and note in Acts 10:44-46 that the Gentiles had received the Holy Spirit. This was before they were baptized! Ephesians 2:8-10 (NASB) 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 2:9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. Clearly, scripture teaches salvation is a gift of God and not a result of works! This subject has been discussed in detail on this forum but since you took the “liberty to expand slightly” as you said, I want to clarify for you and anyone else reading along that I agree with scripture and that salvation is by grace through faith and not of anything we can do (i.e. works)! I do not believe that the scriptures teach you must be baptized to be saved. Steve |
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4 | when a I saved and when baptised | Rom 10:9 | Aspiring Overseer | 189531 | ||
Steve, Thank you for your response. It is an interesting doctrine that people are called on to believe and confess God; both actions requiring human effort; yet water baptism is beyond the pale! You are correct in stating this subject has been discussed at length so I will not subject you or others following this thread to a repeat of the discussion. Please feel most welcome to contact me individually, if desired. Best regards, AO |
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5 | when a I saved and when baptised | Rom 10:9 | humbledbyhisgrace | 189535 | ||
AO, It is an interesting doctrine indeed and when scripture is so clear on the matter I struggle to understand why some still push salvation by works. Perhaps a good study on the grace of God and the corrupted nature of mankind would help. I would like to ask regarding your statement " It is an interesting doctrine that people are called on to believe and confess God; both actions requiring human effort; yet water baptism is beyond the pale!" Considering scripture such as these 1 Corinthians 2:14 (NASB) But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. And Romans 8:5-8 (NASB) 8:5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 8:6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 8:7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8:8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. What human effort can we claim? Can believers claim it is by their effort that they have believed and confessed Christ as Lord? 1 Corinthians 12:3 (NASB) Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit. It is an interesting doctrine to me that mankind still believes he saves himself and that he is capable of such great works! Especially in light of scripture and simply taking a look around the world at the fruit of sinful mans labors! Ephesians 2:4-9 (NASB) 2:4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 2:5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 2:6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 2:7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 2:9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. Steve |
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6 | when a I saved and when baptised | Rom 10:9 | Aspiring Overseer | 189598 | ||
Steve, Scripture is very clear on the mater that Christianity is simply not a "something for nothing" religion as is so often erroneously asserted. The natural man does indeed revise God's Word to agree with their desire to have no responsibility for their own actions. Thus the constant refrain of half-truths train and sustain a population who may have a great zeal for God, but not in accordance with the truth. They seek the easy road, stubbornly refusing to acknowledge their own God-given ability to chose between good and evil, they unwittingly proclaim themselves to be helpless souls, waiting for a "revelation" from God that they manufacture in their own minds, allowing themselves the "free pass" they crave from their daily deeds. The requirement of baptism for salvation has been contested since the later half of the first century, but Scripture is indeed clear on its necessity. Acts 2:38 38And Peter said to them, "Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. NAS They chose to repent and be baptized in order to receive the Holy Spirit. Acts 8:36 36And as they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch said, "Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?" NAS He excitedly chose to be baptized as soon as it was physically possible. Acts 16:32-34 33And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household. NAS They were immediately baptized. Why not wait until the rest of their friends and family could witness the event? Because they were acting on their faith that the words presented to them were the command of God. John 14:15 15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. NAS 1 Peter 3:21-22 21 And corresponding to that, baptism now saves you-- not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience-- through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him. NAS Baptism now saves you by being the final step to the grace offered through the blood of Christ. God could not make it any clearer, “Baptism now saves you”. How? Not in itself, but through the individual’s obedience to the command of God, allowing that person to finally have a clear conscience before the Lord. Agree or disagree, each of us must make our own decision. Best regards, AO |
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7 | when a I saved and when baptised | Rom 10:9 | BradK | 189603 | ||
Dear AspiringOverseer, There are many -such as myself -who would contest the validity of the latter half of your statement that, "Scripture is indeed clear on its necessity." regarding baptismal regeneration. Aside from the handful of proof-texts you provide, nothing of the sort is taught in the entirety of scripture. Rom. 11:6 says "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace." Context is always important. Acts should not be viewed as a doctrinal book teaching how one is saved- it is a Narrative. Similarly, 1 Peter 3:21 is not at all clear as to it's exact meaning- despite the obvious. One should be extremely cautious about developing doctrine from a such a verse. Speaking the Truth in Love, BradK |
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8 | when a I saved and when baptised | Rom 10:9 | Aspiring Overseer | 189613 | ||
BradK, Thank you for your feedback. How many times must God cause to be written His commands before they are expected to be followed? If it is more than once, then a person should check themselves to see if they are in the faith. I agree that context is critical and that is why God included Romans 11:1-5 before giving us verse 6 so that we would know that the works which were ineffective were the works of the Law of Moses. This says nothing about excluding work from the Law of Faith. As to 1 Peter 3:21 being difficult to understand, its preceding verse should make abundantly clear that as eight were brought safely through the water, so God's people today are brought safely into the body of Christ through the same element. Best regards, AO |
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9 | when a I saved and when baptised | Rom 10:9 | BradK | 189652 | ||
Dear AO, If you'll note, the one's who "got wet" in the flood perished:-) Noah and his group were dry! Speaking the Truth in Love, BradK |
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10 | when a I saved and when baptised | Rom 10:9 | kalos | 189681 | ||
Brad, Good post. Likewise, Noah and his group were saved (rescued, delivered) OUT OF the water, not BY the water. Grace to you, Kalos |
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