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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Holy Spirit evidence of Salvation? | Acts 2:38 | Mommapbs | 51274 | ||
Greetings Forum participants! For many days we have masticated the issue of baptismal regeneration or the belief that water baptism is necessary for salvation. Now, if the Holy Spirit is only given AFTER (water) baptism, how could the Gentiles receive the Holy Spirit as they did in Acts 10 PRIOR to their water baptism? |
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2 | Holy Spirit evidence of Salvation? | Acts 2:38 | Grace and Truth | 51487 | ||
D. THE POINT AT WHICH CORNELIUS WAS SAVED... 1. Remember that Cornelius was told to send for Peter, who would tell him: a. "what you must do." - Ac 10:6 b. "words by which you...shall be saved." - Ac 11:14 2. From this, and from what we have already seen in other conversions... a. Cornelius was not saved until he heard the "words" (i.e., after the sermon) b. Cornelius was not saved until he obeyed what he was told to do c. What were the words he was told to do? 1) Certainly they were told to believe, as implied in Ac 10:43 2) Clearly they were told to be baptized, as commanded in Ac 10:48 3. Thus Cornelius and his household were not saved until they "believed and were baptized"! - cf. Mk 16:16; Ac 8:12,13 |
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3 | Holy Spirit evidence of Salvation? | Acts 2:38 | Morant61 | 51499 | ||
Greetings Grace and Truth! First of all, I have noticed in several of your posts that you are quoting from other sources. You really ought to identify your sources! ;-) Secondly, it is my position that one cannot receive the gift of the Holy Spirit without being saved. The Holy Spirit does not inhabit sinners. So, trying to explain away the contradiction between Acts 2:38 and Acts 10:45 under your view by simply saying that they were not saved until they were baptized doesn't convince. However, we may or may not agree on that point. Fortunately, we don't have to, because the exact words of Scripture demostrate that your interpretation of Acts 2:38 is wrong and you still haven't addressed this exact issue. Let me state the problem again (under your interpretation of Acts 2:38): 1) Everyone must both 'repent' and 'be baptized' (Acts 2:38). 2) Those who do these 'two' things will receive 'forgiveness of sins' and 'the gift of the Holy Spirit'. 3) Acts 10:45 specifically says that they had received 'the gift of the Holy Spirit' prior to being baptized. 4) Therefore, your interpetation of Acts 2:38 is wrong. Mark Copeland can argue that they weren't saved until they heard and did everything that Peter commanded them, but the simple fact is that Acts 10:45 says that they had already received 'the gift of the Holy Spirit' prior to their being baptized. In fact, their reception of the gift of the Holy Spirit was the basis on which Peter argued that they should be allowed to be baptized. Therefore, your understanding of Acts 2:38 is simply wrong (unless you want to admit to a contradiction). However, under the tradition view, Acts 2:38 and Acts 10:45 make perfect sense. They 'repented' at the preaching of Peter and received the 'gift of the Holy Spirit', which are the plural phrases connected together grammatically in Acts 2:38. Then, and only then, each one was baptized, in accordance with the singular command of Acts 2:38. Surely you can see my brother, that this view is not consitent with these two verses, not with the rest of Scripture. I use to always tell my congregation that one very important clue to a false doctrine was that it's proponents had to go to extraordinary lengths to explain away Scripture which told against their doctrine. Mark Copeland's attempt to explain away Acts 10:45 falls into this category. It is very clear! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | Holy Spirit evidence of Salvation? | Acts 2:38 | let it rain | 51502 | ||
Hello Tim, I think you are confusing the one....what happened to Peter -- with the other....what Peter was given to teach the rest of us. That is probably why you confuse the special miracles (Pentecost and House of Cornelius) with the common (Acts 2:38) Though all salvation is miraculous, it's also quite obvious that the winds and tongues of fire don't happen every time someone is saved. They received the holy spirit without repentance or baptism, ("first for the jews") then revealed God's plan to all in their presence. Presumably, these were all Jews. Then they were led to the Gentiles, who received the Holy Spirit by the same special miracle as did the jews. ("then for the Gentiles") I can see baptism in both of these occasions, but I have to read repentance into the text. In his love! Rob |
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5 | Holy Spirit evidence of Salvation? | Acts 2:38 | Morant61 | 51505 | ||
Greetings Letitrain! Thanks for the response! I have three problems with your position! First of all, nothing is said in the text about 'special miracles' or 'special circumstances'. This is a major assumption and a convient way to get around what the text actually says. Secondly, the text of Acts 2:38 and Acts 10:45 is very specific. The exact same phrase is used in both verses in the Greek text. In English, they both read, "the gift of the Holy Spirit". Thirdly, Acts 2:38 makes it very clear that 'repentance' (plural command) is necessary to 'receive the gift of the Holy Spirit' (plural promise). So, those in Acts 10:45 could not have received the gift of the Holy Spirit unless they were believers. Now, either the baptismal regeneration view of Acts 2:38 is wrong or there is a contradiction between Acts 2:38 and Acts 10:45. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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