Results 1 - 14 of 14
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Jesus has two nature but yet he is one. | John 4:24 | sonnex | 163166 | ||
Thank you for your direct answer. But what can you say about the following verses that seems prop up questions about the death of His diety: Acts 20:28 - God has a blood 1Cor. 2:8 - the Lord of Glory is crucified Romans 9:5 - God has a human ancestry Col. 1:18 - one with fullness of deity has been dead John 1:3 - the baby born of Mary is the Creator. Jesus has two nature but he is in one person. This two nature can not be separated. Am I right? |
||||||
2 | Jesus has two nature but yet he is one. | John 4:24 | ItsMe | 163245 | ||
Acts 20:28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers.Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. This verse is referring to Jesus the Christ - that came and died. God has three natures or personas, Father, Son and Holy Ghost - and yet He is God - One God. Jesus' two natures of human and God, were separated - at the cross He left His humaness and again become God in His Spiritual form. |
||||||
3 | Jesus has two nature but yet he is one. | John 4:24 | BradK | 163254 | ||
Hi It'sMe, I'm following you up to the point where you say Jesus 2 natures were separated at the cross. You say "He left His humaness and again become God in His Spiritual form.:" Are you saying He gave up His humanity in its' entirety and now exists only in the spiritual form? Speaking the Truth in Love, BradK |
||||||
4 | Jesus has two nature but yet he is one. | John 4:24 | ItsMe | 163255 | ||
I don't think of God in human form. Though He hasn't forgotten His human-ness, He has reminded me of it a few times. I don't think of Him as "in the spiritual form" - I just think of Him - well I guess I think of Him as "spirit" now that I'm considering it. Human is so frail and lacking - I can't put that on Him. Do you have a scripture basis for believing He is still human? His servant... |
||||||
5 | Jesus has two nature but yet he is one. | John 4:24 | BradK | 163274 | ||
Hi It's me, Yes I do. I think primarily 1 Tim. 2:5, "For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus," Now, Paul wrote this after the resurrection and ascension of the Lord, so I think very telling. Additionally, Heb 2:14 tells us: "Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil," Conversely, what scripture would teel us that Christ gave up or forsook His humanity? I can't find any:-) I think many of us- myself included- erroneously believe that when Christ ascended, He shed His humanity. To be qualify as our mediator, He had to be : 1. sinless 2. human 3. Diety As He is still mediating, would it not also be necessary for Him to still be human? Those are my thoughts, BradK |
||||||
6 | Jesus has two nature but yet he is one. | John 4:24 | ItsMe | 163299 | ||
I don't agree completely nor do I disagree completely. And you are welcome to understand a scripture the way that you feel led. I think 1Tim 2:5 - "Paul knew Christ as man" is referring to the fact that humans met God and understood Him better as man. And, Jesus, was man and God. Heb 2:14 tells me He "partook of the same" - that's past tense. 1 Pet 3:18-19 - says "having been put to death in the flesh". I picked up several devotionals and scanned them and found articles in each on Christ giving up his human life for our sins. I felt better that I wasn't alone in this thought. Also, I do not think a mediator needs to be human - I prefer he be above that and I think Christ is above my Priest friend. I may be missing something here. I've prayed and the only instruction I get is to keep it in love. I do enjoy your comments and search them out on this site (along with a couple of others). I don't always agree but they usually give me reason to think, which is good. Oh, in Hebrews it says our high priest is seated at the right throne of God - can a human sit there? - that thought just came to mind. Again, my thoughts have rambled. His servant... |
||||||
7 | Jesus has two nature but yet he is one. | John 4:24 | BradK | 163302 | ||
Hello It'sMe, I appreciate your reponse, but don't think it's simply a matter of understanding scripture in the way we are led:-) Ultimately, it's a matter of: what does scripture teach! I believed up to 2 years ago that Christ, when He ascended entered the spiritual realm and ceased being human. However, when challenged by a good man and biblical scholar, realized my belief had been more based on assumption than reasoned thinking and scripture! The more I've studied it and looked into orthodox views, historically, the more I agree. With that said, here's my reply: 1. Where does Paul say "he knew Him as a man" in this text? He just calls Him, "...the man Christ Jesus". It is further descriptive of Christ and is the subject here! 2. You are correct with Heb. 2:14 being past tense. However, that doesn't imply He gave up His humanity. Vincent writes: The verb only in Hebrews and Paul. The distinction "were partakers" is correctly stated by Westcott; the latter marking the characteristic sharing of the common fleshly nature as it pertains to the human race at large, and the former signifying the unique fact of the incarnation as a voluntary acceptance of humanity." 3. He was clearly "put to death in the flesh". That still has nothing to do with Him shedding His humanity?! As to the qualifications of a Mediator, you'd be at odds with scripture to state otherwise:-) Can you demonstrate why not? Hodge writes this in reference to His human qualification: "1. He must be a man. The Apostle assigns as the reason why Christ assumed our nature and not the nature of angels, that He came to redeem us. (Hebrews 2. 14–16). It was necessary that He should be made under the law which we had broken; that He should fulfil all righteousness; that He should suffer and die; that He should be able to sympathize in all the infirmities of his people, and that He should be united to them in a common nature. He who sanctifies (purifies from sin both as guilt and as pollution) and those who are sanctified are and must be of one nature. Therefore as the children were partakers of flesh and blood, He also took part of the same. (Hebrews 2. 11–14.)" "These qualifications for the office of mediator between God and man are all declared in the Scriptures to be essential; they all met in Christ; and they all were demanded by the nature of the work which He came to perform." "As it was necessary that Christ should be both God and man in two distinct natures and one person, in order to effect our redemption, it follows that his mediatorial work, which includes all He did and is still doing for the salvation of men, is the work not of his human to the exclusion of his divine nature, nor of the latter to the exclusion of the former. It is the work of the theanthropos, of the God-man." The main challenge is this: Can you provide a scriptural basis to show Christ ceased being a man? Speaking the Truth in Love, BradK |
||||||
8 | Jesus has two nature but yet he is one. | John 4:24 | ItsMe | 163325 | ||
You say "...but don't think it's simply a matter of understanding scripture in the way we are led:-) Ultimately, it's a matter of: what does scripture teach!" I think the Holy Spirit leads me, teaches and enlightens me and that things are revealed at different times to different people. I think all scripture is good. I don't think we have to see all scripture the same. I think - Right is right, wrong is wrong, hopefully we see and understand that in scripture. Scripture also speaks to each of us individually - which it must be doing this time. So - you don't think scripture teaches us differently (or at different times)? From my studies I believe Paul lived while Jesus was ministering; was aware of Him as a human, and was converted when confronted by Jesus in spirit form. I don't think Paul was a believer of Christ's ministry while Jesus was alive. Many scholars believe Paul's ministry began 34 C.E. while others think it came later. I think Paul knew Jesus as a man. Maybe not personal friends, or shaking hands, but having knowledge of Him (like I know Billy Graham??) I'm not sure whom Hodge or Westcott are and what the basis is for quoting them - they must be sources you believe and trust. Your Hebrews scriptures once again seem to be past tense. yes, He assumed our nature - that's why when I start complaining or whining about something and talk to Him as if He doesn't understand, He can quickly point out that He does, because He has been here. And, like the scripture says - He can sympathize. Again "He also took part" - not present tense? Dr. Graham states "Because Paul was a young man when he witnessed the stoning of Stephen, we can assume that he was born during the same period as Jesus, and Paul had his conversion experience about the age of 30-35; Paul's execution probably was about A.D. 64-65." - about the same age, living same area - I think Paul "knew" Jesus. I am not getting something here - I'm not seeing any basis for believing that He didn't cease being a man. I'm trying - I'm not seeing it in what you are writing me. I'm going over to this site at break and lunch - so my thoughts are generally that - my thoughts and scriptures I know - I can't research much during these short times. So my answers aren't scholarly (nor would they be if I could research them). I'm not seeing Him as human. I asked a minister friend at lunch and he chuckled. Seems like it isn't a unique debate - but he has never seen anything in scripture, in his studies or His life experience that leads him to believe that Christ is human. I'll try to find time to do some research on this subject but right now, I'm not getting it from what you are sending me. It's probably furstrating or confusing you - I'm sure your intentions are good and you are trying to make it clear - but I'm not getting it. His servant... |
||||||
9 | Jesus has two nature but yet he is one. | John 4:24 | BradK | 163332 | ||
Hi ItsMe, I appreciate your patience and diligence. This isn't a test of fellowship and I'm certainly not attempting to make it one:-) I'd humbly ask you to go back and re-read what I quoted from Hodge as it should be clear and definitely aides in our understanding the issue at hand. Also, it would help me if you could answer the specific questions I asked:-) It would keep the discussion focused. Dr. Charles Hodge (1797-1878), was a professor of theology at Princeton University. He was conservative by nature, and his life was spent in defending the Reformed theology. The garnered wisdom of his life is given us in his Systematic Theology. Two matters that I touched on that need to be grasped are: 1. The Person of Christ; 2. The Mediatorial Work of Christ- Qualifications for the Work. I think 1 Tim. 2:5 is very clear. Since Paul wrote it AFTER the resurrection and ascension of Christ, why would he refer to Christ as "the God-man" if He (still) wasn't? The bottom line is this: What scriptural evidence can we provide to establish that Christ ceased being both fully God and fully man? That is the question you need to answer. Speaking the Truth in Love, BradK |
||||||
10 | Jesus has two nature but yet he is one. | John 4:24 | ItsMe | 163387 | ||
I relate to my dead mother as a woman - she isn't anymore - I truly believe she is a spirit now. I'm getting very confused - things aren't getting more clear. It seems like your questions are almost unreasonable? I re-read - "Hodge writes this in reference to His human qualification: "1. He must be a man. The Apostle assigns as the reason why Christ assumed our nature and not the nature of angels, that He came to redeem us. (Hebrews 2. 14–16). It was necessary that He should be made under the law which we had broken; that He should fulfil all righteousness; that He should suffer and die; that He should be able to sympathize in all the infirmities of his people, and that He should be united to them in a common nature. He who sanctifies (purifies from sin both as guilt and as pollution) and those who are sanctified are and must be of one nature. Therefore as the children were partakers of flesh and blood, He also took part of the same. (Hebrews 2. 11–14.)" "These qualifications for the office of mediator between God and man are all declared in the Scriptures to be essential; they all met in Christ; and they all were demanded by the nature of the work which He came to perform." "As it was necessary that Christ should be both God and man in two distinct natures and one person, in order to effect our redemption, it follows that his mediatorial work, which includes all He did and is still doing for the salvation of men, is the work not of his human to the exclusion of his divine nature, nor of the latter to the exclusion of the former. It is the work of the the anthropos, of the God-man." So - Hodge used a lot of nice phrases and states things he believes - that don't mean anything to me. Because someone is a believer, a conservative, a teacher - doesn't mean I have to agree or believe or even understand what they are saying. I do believe Jesus/Christ was a man and that He had to be to get through to us - and to be able to feel and voice our situations. That's like saying - I was an assembly line worker - and so I understand their position and I can now talk to management for them. I am no longer an assembly line worker (actually, never was). You say - And again - The main challenge is this: Can you provide a scriptural basis to show Christ ceased being a man?" No - but I'm not seeing scriptural proof that He's still a human (walking around on this earth as a man - no, I don't see it???) I think this is like beating a dead horse into the ground, as the old saying goes. I'm researching, I have knowledgeable, Biblical experts, trying to help me with this also. If they come back with an answer that is clear - for a simpleton like myself - then maybe this will make some sense. Right now it seems to get muddier and muddier and it's not getting clear. Still, His servant... |
||||||
11 | Jesus has two nature but yet he is one. | John 4:24 | BradK | 163399 | ||
Hello ItsMe, Feel free to check out my user profile to get to know a little about me and where I'm coming from:-) I apologize as it is not my intent that the questions I ask be unreasonable:-( I do believe them to be pertinent to our discussion and understanding, so that was my reason for asking them. All I'm seeking is for you to honestly search the scriptures to arrive at a conclusion. If you don't know, or are just making an assumption- that's your call, my friend:-) As to Charles Hodge- don't take his word! However,ask yourself (or research) does what he say line up with scripture and is it in line with what others have concluded historically? For what it's worth he (Hodge) is generally held as an accomplished scholar and his views are rather orthodox- they have stood the test of time. Take that for what it is- or leave it. As the scriptural proof seems to be lacking on your part, should that not be telling you something? Historically, there are numerous references to the God-man aspect of the Person of Christ found in the creeds that support what I'm saying! (The creeds being a human summation of what the Bible teaches). The following should help (I hope): 1. The Definition of Chalcedon -(451 AD) 2. Athanasian Creed -(500 AD) 3. London Baptist Confession of Faith -(1689) 4. Martin Luther made reference to in "Disputation on the Divinity and Humanity of Christ" -(1540) 5. John Owen in his "Two Short Catechisms", Chap. 10 Of the Person of Christ. 6. Most telling is the Eastern Orthodox Church position on the Ascension: Q. "What significance does the event of the Ascension of Jesus Christ have for the Christian? The Orthodox should understand why they celebrate a feast, and it's inner meaning. " A. "Christ ascended to Heaven as man and as God. Once he became a man, being at the same time, as always, perfect God, he never put off His manhood, but deified it, and made it, and us capable of apprehending heavenly things. The Ascension is a prophecy of things to come for those who love God and believe in Him in an Orthodox manner. Those who believe and live according to this belief will be in the heavens, in the flesh, with Him, just as He now abides in the Heavens in the flesh. Our flesh and souls will be saved, because Christ made human flesh capable of deification." You can research further and check my references at: www.creeds.net if you wish. Finally, I'll quit beating this dead horse by kindly and simply asking that you be a Berean and search the scriptures to see if these things be so or not (Acts 17:11). God Bless, my friend. BradK |
||||||
12 | Jesus has two nature but yet he is one. | John 4:24 | ItsMe | 163407 | ||
I've read the scriptures you have given me and they have not made me see Him as a human in today's world. I am sorry I am not as noble in character as you are. I am trying my best to find this and to make sense out of it. You seem to keep trying to prove that I'm not. Brad?? What's going on here? I think you are one stubborn person. I'm trying - I'm using all my resources and I can't keep answering your questions with the little free time I have. If I come upon something that proves Jesus is human I will. I will use my strongs, my professor, my scholars and see what I can find. I'm sorry you think I am lacking - I will admit that every belief that I have, regarding every subject that I have any knowledge of (how to drive a car, how to cook a meal, how to work on a PC) are not backed up by scripture knowledge, that is not telling me that I don't know them. Since I don't have scriptural knowlege that is affirming He is still a human being, I am still searching. I'm sorry that you seem to be starting to have fun with proving my ignorance. That's OK. Enjoy. I'm getting a bit of a chuckle out of your responses myself. Still, His servant... |
||||||
13 | Jesus has two nature but yet he is one. | John 4:24 | BradK | 163420 | ||
Hello ItsMe, You're reading way more into what I've said, my friend. I'm not into playing games and am certainly not trying to be funny! And, not in any way, shape , or form am I trying to prove your ignorance. I'm sorry that you feel that way. I am guilty of being stubborn when it comes to backing ones' assertions with scripture:-( You tell me what's going on here and we'll both know:-) Enough said. Speaking the Truth in Love, BradK |
||||||
14 | Jesus has two nature but yet he is one. | John 4:24 | ItsMe | 163691 | ||
I think what is going on is you believe something that I can find no basis for - which is OK if you want to believe that - I just can't. I did find a few scriptures - 1Peter 3:18For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; and 1 Cor 15 35-45 - (vs 45) when Jesus, the second-Adam, is called a life-giving spirit. I don't think I close my mind - I wonder how people do that - and I will continue pursuing this because you seem so sure of it. So far He hasn't revealed that to me. His servant... |
||||||