Results 1 - 6 of 6
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Heresy or true? | John 3:18 | MRkornmann | 37402 | ||
This is a statment that was giving to me from a preacher that say's he belives that the only way to heaven is through jesus but that you can know about him without ever hearing the word..."I(his name) have stated and do belive that, based on scripture, we cannot, without a doubt, exclude every man who has, for whatever reason or in whatever time, never been exposed to the written Word of God or the Gospel of Jesus Christ from receiving entrance into heaven by the grace of God through the Blood of Jesus Christ. I do not believe that thouse who have not been exposed to the word of God will go to heaven simply because they have not heard." You See My question to him was "Can someone today get to heaven without have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ? ie; that jungle native that has never been exposed to the gosple." I mean is there Two ways he says that thruogh creation everone knows thiers a God but know theres a God and have the blood of Christ are two dif. things to me... If we get the blood by beliving theres a God and trying to be good then Why did Jesus have to die for us? to me he gave only one way and thats why we have Missionary to give the word. |
||||||
2 | Heresy or true? | John 3:18 | Lionstrong | 37469 | ||
Hello MRkornmann, Paul argues that since the Fall all mankind is under judgement for sin (Rom 5:12 and following). It is therefore by God's grace alone that any are acquitted their guilt, justified, and receive eternal life. The instrument by which one enters this state of grace is faith, which is also a gift of God (Ehp 2:8,9). What precisely the individual man has faith in is not always clear, but it is has always been faith with respect to the special revelation of the one and only true and living God of the Bible. The writer of Hebrews makes this point eloquently in the eleventh chapter of his epistle. While Jesus affirms that Abraham saw His day and rejoiced (John 8:56), it was not seeing Christ’s day that saved Abraham. Abraham was reckoned righteous by God when he had faith in the promise of God concerning his posterity (Gen. 15: 5,6). But it is not clear what word from God Able and Enoch believed. But whatever promise they believed, it was by their belief alone that they were justified and not by their works. But the verse under consideration in this thread (John 3:18) seems to say that since the coming and work of the Only Begotten, we are commanded to specifically believe the promises in this Chosen One, for it says that if we believe not (in Him), we have been judged already. The last verse of this chapter in John's Gospel makes the point even stronger: "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. So, it seems that our lazy reliance on God's general revelation of Himself in creation will not do. Creation does not tell anyone about the person and work of Christ. The Church of Christ must be obedient to the Great Commission and make disciples of all nations. Rom 10:11, 17 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." Rom 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; Rom 10:13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED." Rom 10:14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? Rom 10:15 How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!" Rom 10:16 However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, "LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?" Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. So, your quote cannot be accepted without further qualification. It seems to me that since the completion of the work of Christ on the cross, we are commanded to believe the Gospel, specifically, for eternal life. Peace, Lionstrong |
||||||
3 | Heresy or true? | John 3:18 | Brent Douglass | 63664 | ||
Sorry to bring this back after so long (rather than earlier), Lionstrong. I don't review the list much anymore (due to time limitations, not offense or anything like that), but I wanted to reply to your posting. I came across it after someone replied to my earlier reply on the same thread. I really like the points that you make, so I don't need to reply to the original thread, but there is one consideration that I'd like to suggest. I've quoted an excerpt from you below and responded afterward. 'But the verse under consideration in this thread (John 3:18) seems to say that since the coming and work of the Only Begotten, we are commanded to specifically believe the promises in this Chosen One, for it says that if we believe not (in Him), we have been judged already. The last verse of this chapter in John's Gospel makes the point even stronger: "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.' - Lionstrong The last verse of the chapter, in the NAS, reads: John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." Reading the different versions together, I think the clearest reading of both of these verses from John 3 are that they reference active disbelief on the part of those who have come into contact with Christ -- whether through encountering Jesus directly during His presence on the earth or through the written or spoken proclamation about Him -- not disbelief stemming from helpless ignorance. As the Amplified adds, "[He is condemned for refusing to let his trust rest in Christ's name.]" In context, it seems fairly clear that John is referring to those who have had the opportunity to encounter Christ and have either believed (resulting in life) or disbelieved through avoidance or rejection (resulting in condemnation). The reason for judgment is refusal of the revelation of God: "because he has not believed [has disbelieved] in the name of the only begotten Son of God." [Added note here is mine.] |
||||||
4 | Heresy or true? | John 3:18 | Lionstrong | 63703 | ||
Hello Mr. Douglas, I don’t share your view of “active disbelief.” Here’s why: (1) It smells like the false notion that it would be “unfair” of God not to give everyone a chance to hear the gospel. Whereas God’s mercy is abundant (myself being an example of it), it is still entirely God’s prerogative to whom he extends or withholds mercy. Rom. 9:15,16, “For He says to Moses, " I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.” (2) I’m my most humble opinion, 3:18,36 is not restricted to only those who have heard the truth and rejected it. It includes all who do not believe. God saves us by grace through faith. The reason one does not have faith in Christ is either because he has head the gospel and rejected him (John 1:11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him.), or because he has never heard (Rom. 10:14 How then shall they call upon Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?). (3) “Active disbelief” also smacks of the notion that God condemns man for unbelief alone. Not so! The gospel is the power of God for SALVATION for all who believe; it is not the sole rule of CONDEMNATION for those who don’t. We’re saved because we believe; we’re lost not because we don’t believe, but because we’re sinners. We’re born that way because of Papa Adam (Rom 5). God “will render to every man according to his deeds:” (Rom. 2:6) A just God will not only judge a sinner who has actively disbelieved in his Son, he will also condemn a sinner for his sins though he has never heard of Christ. Peace, |
||||||
5 | Heresy or true? | John 3:18 | Brent Douglass | 63716 | ||
Thanks for your quick reply, Lionstrong. We definitely have a difference of opinion on some underlying ideas, no doubt based upon differences in priority given to speicific passages and interpretations underlying those views. However, I don't think they're necessarily relevant to this passage, since I don't think it either defends or discourages either view. Please recognize that I offer the following as only my opinions, which continue to be tested over time. Disagreement is fine, no matter how firm I may seem to be in my statements. I appreciate your response and your concern about the tendency for people to gravitate toward such a reading (active disbelief) of this text simply from a desire to defend God (or their-our own views of God) from accusations of being unfair and-or to remove the consequences of sin. People may, at times, try to use just about anything that doesn't directly contradict their point of view, but it would be a very big reach in this case. I'm reasonably confident that (a focus on defending my previous view of God) is not part of my motivation. In these particular verses, the context itself refers to unbelief, not sin, as the reason for judgment: "because he has not believed..." From other passages, we can indeed conclude that condemnation is based on sinfulness and not on unbelief. However, in this particular passage, it is unbelief in the face of truth that leaves these specific people still in their ongoing state of condemnation for sin. I'm confident that there are very good reasons for your views regarding your understanding (and similar understandings of many others whom I deeply respect) regarding God's sovereign exercise of pre-selection of some for salvation and others for destruction. That view should certainly not be turned aside or modified lightly, and my previous response was not intended to challenge that view in any way. However, it sounds like your reasoning for rejecting the idea that this particular passage refers to active disbelief stems from a concern about the apparent availability of that interpretation to be used to falsely support a doctrine that you disagree with -- rather than based on the context itself. I respect your views regarding how God chooses to exercise His sovereignty (so far as I know them at least). I do believe this particular passage doesn't work as a proof text for application to those who have not heard because the context seems to apply specifically to active disbelievers. However, it certainly doesn't work as a proof text for anyone suggesting that ignorant unbelievers are not answerable to God either; as you point out, that is clearly dealt with elsewhere, and this passage says nothing of the sort. I believe this passage simply doesn't focus at all on those who haven't had the opportunity to hear. In John 3:18, Jesus is giving a message to Nicodemus for himself and other Pharisees who have come to Him for clarification; in John 3:31, John the Baptist is speaking to his own followers after a discussion with another Jew regarding their questions about Jesus, whose teaching they were familiar with. Both were addressed to those who had the opportunity, through exposure to Christ, to believe. Some believed, and some disbelieved. Members of these groups who didn't believe remained under God's judgment for their sins. Those who believed, in contrast, were saved through their belief. The question of what would have happened to them if they had not come into contact with Christ at all is not dealt with in this passage but elsewhere in the Scriptures. Peace, Brent |
||||||
6 | Heresy or true? | John 3:18 | Lionstrong | 64742 | ||
Hello Mr. Douglas, To test a definition of a word one substitutes the word with the definition. The wordiness of the sentence may be cumbersome, but it should make sense in the context of the sentence. Well, Mr. Douglas, I'm almost persuaded by your argument that 3:18 is talking about active disbelief only, except when I try to read this verse with that meaning. While I agree with your summary of the context, I can't fit your particular meaning into the general statements of the Lord and John. The general statement reads: He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. If I'm correct you think it means (in context): He who believes in Him is not judged; he who [has heard the gospel and still] does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God [even though he has been told the truth about the Son]. I agree with the maxim, "a verse without a context is a pretext," but I still don't see that even in their context that these general statements apply to the active disbeliever only. Your reply was very well written and I thoroughly enjoyed it. May the Lord bless this sharpening of swords. Peace, |
||||||