Results 1 - 10 of 10
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Father greater than Jesus | John 14:28 | userdoe217 | 11012 | ||
I wanted to thank everyone especially Tim who has been answering most of my questions, and Jim who has been really inviting. Does this mean that according to Jesus, the Father is greater than him? Yours truly, Isa |
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2 | Father greater than Jesus | John 14:28 | Morant61 | 11038 | ||
Greetings Isa! This is a verse that many people use to try and prove that Jesus is not fully God. However, it does not make that point at all. John makes several things very clear about the relationship between God the Father and God the Son. 1) The Father and the Son share the same essence (cf. 1:1-2; 14:9; 20:28). This point is made throughout the New Testament. 2) The Father and the Son are “One” in purpose and essence (10:30). What then did Jesus mean when He said that the Father is greather than He? Simply this, the Father is greater in office or glory than the Son during His humiliation. The whole point of the incarnation of Christ is that He took upon Himself a lesser nature. He became fully man. Phil. 2:5-11 calls it an emptying. So, during His incarnation, God the Father was greater. Jesus was in fact subordinate to God the Father during this time. However, this was not an eternal distinction. Refer back to John 1:1, where John makes it clear that Jesus is God. Thus, John 14:28 does not refer to the essential being of Christ, but rather to His relationship with the Father during His incarnation. In Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | Father greater than Jesus | John 14:28 | thisbabbler | 130746 | ||
"So, during His incarnation, God the Father was greater. Jesus was in fact subordinate to God the Father during this time. However, this was not an eternal distinction." I've heard this argument often. If true, doesn't that mean all that Jesus said must be understood in this light? For example, John 10:30 could not mean equality as some suggest, but must mean one in purpose. Also, doesn't 1 Cor 15:28 show that the subordinate position of the son will continue: "When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all." |
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4 | Father greater than Jesus | John 14:28 | Morant61 | 130750 | ||
Greetings Babbler! For those who properly understand the doctrine of the Trinity, John 10:30 would never be taken to mean that the Father and the Son are one Person. Thus, unity of purpose is certainly in view. But, I also believe that unity of nature is in view as well. Jesus, during His incarnation, did not cease to be God. He was 100 percent man and 100 percent God at the same time. As far as 1 Cor. 15:28 is concerned, I'm not sure how the relationship between Father and Son will be throughout eternity. There are some indications that Christ will ever be the Lamb that was slain. Yet, He still retains His essential nature as God as well. This would be a good verse to do more study on! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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5 | Father greater than Jesus | John 14:28 | thisbabbler | 130763 | ||
Can't quite agree with the "unity in nature" being in view here, but thanks for your comments. Doesn't 1 Cor 15:28 address the relationship between the Father and Son throughout eternity? I just responded to Country Girl re: John 8:17, and this is another example of 2 rather than 3 persons being referred to. For me, such lack of Scriptural content begs consideration. I think of my Catholic background, and how that church worships Mary when the NT writers barely even mention her. With nothing close to worship ever being mentioned in connection with the holy spirit, it seems strange that it was elevated to God status. Can these concerns be addressed? |
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6 | Father greater than Jesus | John 14:28 | BradK | 130768 | ||
Babbler, You state "With nothing close to worship ever being mentioned in connection with the holy spirit, it seems strange that it was elevated to God status." How so? The Spirits' role is to glorify the Son, not be worshipped on his own: "He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you." John 16:14 Interestingly, the personal pronoun is used often of the Holy Spirit in John 14-16. Further, the Holy Spirit is referred to as God in Acts 5:3-4: "But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God." The Holy Spirit was not elevated to God status, He is the 3rd Person of the Trinity. In Isaiah 6:8-10 we find the Prophet writing "...that he heard the voice of the Lord (Jehovah)..." Luke records Paul in Acts 28:25ff, in referring to the same passage as saying "The Holy Spirit rightly spoke through Isaiah the prophet to your fathers, ..." Not Jehovah, but the Holy Spirit- One is essence, three in person if properly understood and we hold to the inerrancy of Scripture:-) Speaking the Truth in Love, BradK |
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7 | Father greater than Jesus | John 14:28 | thisbabbler | 130772 | ||
One of the many "roles" of the holy spirit is to glorify the Son. But does this make it God? Ananias "lied" or attempted to deceive by falsehood, the holy spirit. This can apply to words or actions, from a root that means untrue, i.e. erroneous, deceitful or wicked. (Strong's Concordance) Persons that operate from the position that holy spirit is a person do so because of the personification of it by Jesus when speaking of it. They go so far as to view descriptive titles as Comforter and Helper as personal names. But if one operates from the position that holy spirit is God's power, then one can still see how Ananias could "lie" of attempt to deceive the holy spirit. God's power had supported the arrangement of these disciples and now Ananias sought to work around it. When one sins against the holy spirit, he sins against God, thus it's worse than a sin against Jesus. (Matt 12:32) Wisdom is personified at Proverbs 8. People are aware of this poetic usage. But Solomon was not just being poetic. This "wisdom" as Master Worker was fond of the sons of men. People don't want to admit that these verses describe Jesus, including his beginning. I've learned that they do understand the concept of an inanimate object being spoken of as a person, but when to make a literal application and when not is the tricky part. My method is to let the overwhelming weight of Scripture dictate. The holy spirit can only be viewed as a thing, used by God to accomplish his will - not to be worshiped as His equal being. |
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8 | Father greater than Jesus | John 14:28 | BradK | 130774 | ||
Babbler, What is your purpose for the view you hold? What is your theological bias? Are you familiar with the Posting Guidleines and terms of Use? You may want to consider these before attempting to continue with your rather un-Orthodox views:-) BradK |
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9 | Father greater than Jesus | John 14:28 | thisbabbler | 130781 | ||
Unorthodoxy is in the eye of the beholder. From my perspective, much of mainstream Christendom's doctrine is unorthodox when compared to the established recorded truth of the Bible. What subjects are open to discussion and will not result in a commentor being threatened with banishment? |
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10 | Father greater than Jesus | John 14:28 | Hank | 130790 | ||
Babbler: So from your perspective much of what you call "mainstream Christendom" is unorthodox? Just what is your perspective? To be more specific, are you a Watchtower brand of Jehovah's Witness? --Hank | ||||||