Results 1 - 8 of 8
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Love/Feed/Tend His Sheep | Mark 6:34 | Rowdy | 131429 | ||
I'm hoping you can confirm something for me. I've been taught that in this scene with Jesus and Peter that there were at least two different Greek words, i.e. philio and agape for the word love as used in the scripture above, John 21. Please tell me if you can, which of the Greek words were used and which question, "Do you love me?" Thanks and God bless. Rowdy Note to Tim Moran: Feel free to respond with your answer to this question if you would. Thanks. |
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2 | Love/Feed/Tend His Sheep | Mark 6:34 | Morant61 | 131443 | ||
Greetings Rowdy! Here is the text of the passage in question: ************************************* John 21:15 - "When they had finished eating, Jesus said to Simon Peter, 'Simon son of John, do you truly love (agapao) me more than these?' 'Yes, Lord,' he said, 'you know that I love (phileo) you.' Jesus said, 'Feed my lambs.' 16 Again Jesus said, 'Simon son of John, do you truly love (agapao) me?' He answered, 'Yes, Lord, you know that I love (phileo) you.' Jesus said, 'Take care of my sheep.' 17 The third time he said to him, 'Simon son of John, do you love (phileo) me?' Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, 'Do you love (phileo) me?' He said, 'Lord, you know all things; you know that I love (phileo) you.' Jesus said, 'Feed my sheep.'" ************************************** I have heard both sides of this interpretation. I tend to take a middle ground. It seems to me that more is occuring in this passage than simply using a different word for variety. However, it seems to be going too far to say that 'phileo' is a 'lesser' kind of love. John uses 'phileo' in several places that indicate he did not see it as a lesser 'love'. For example: John 5:20 - "For the Father loves (phileo) the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, to your amazement he will show him even greater things than these." John 11:3 - "So the sisters sent word to Jesus, 'Lord, the one you love (phileo) is sick.'" John 16:27 - "No, the Father himself loves (phileo) you because you have loved (phielo) me and have believed that I came from God." So, I have a hard time accepting that there is a clear distinction between 'phileo' and 'agapao'. However, the text does indicate that something more is going on than simply using different words for variety sake. Jesus asks John three questions, to which, John replies each time with 'You know that I love (phileo) You.' The questions are: "Simon son of John, do you truly love (agapao) me more than these?" - v. 15. "Simon son of John, do you truly love (agapao)me?" - v. 16. "Simon son of John, do you love (phileo) me?" - v. 17. Without a doubt, Jesus seems to be testing Peter. In His first question, He asks Peter if he loves Him 'more than these'. Peter responds with a different verb for 'love' and ignores the 'more than these' part of the question. In His second question, Jesus drops the 'more than these', but still uses 'agapao' for 'love'. Peter again responds with the verb 'phileo' for 'love'. In His third question, Jesus uses the same verb as Peter. I have heard many people comment on the fact that whereas Peter denied Christ three times, he now gets to acknowledge Him three times. I think that this is the key to this passage. The words seem to differ because Jesus is putting Peter to the test. It isn't that the words necessarily have a great difference in meaning, but that Jesus definitely seems to be challenging Peter's love. Why? I believe that He wanted to give him a chance to redeem his failure when he denied Christ. I hope this helps! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | Love/Feed/Tend His Sheep | Mark 6:34 | Rowdy | 131453 | ||
I've heard the same is true about the Greek words in these three different questions and Peter's three different responses. To me, it seems pretty clear when one uses the Greek dictionary to clarify these two words. Correct me if I'm wrong. But as I understand it, agapao means "to give love without conditions, i.e. as God does" whereas phileo means "simple family love," i.e. between brothers or sisters. Again IMO, it seems that Jesus realized that Peter and His other disciples were NOT at that particular moment in time, quite ready to love their fellow man like God does. But Christ was willing to accept Peter's resolution to love his fellow man as a brother or a sister. Later on, with the assistance of the Holy Spirit in spiritually maturing Peter, we finally see that Peter does grow to love his fellow man with God's type of love without conditions. He even goes to the cross (according to tradition) believing in the Words of his Lord and Master. What a contrast: this willingness to die compared with his cowardly fear (like the rest of us) in the garden. We also see this kind of love in Peter's letters as we do throughout the NT. So once again, God realizes it's a refining process. First, He gets us off the addiction for sin and turned on to the prospect of spending eternity with Him in Heaven and spending time with our fellow christians here on earth. Then He assists us with the help of the Holy Spirit in graduating us from the kind of love offered by the world, i.e. eros to phileo and eventually gets us to at least appreciate His type of love, given freely to our fellow man without conditions. Hopefully, we as His children actually learn to prefer this kind of love as Christ showed on the cross. Then at that time, we can truly feel forgiveness for our sins because we've learn to completely forgive our fellow man as discussed in Jesus' parable of the debtors. Again, correct me if I'm mistaken on any of this but I'd be interested in your full opinion anyway. I really appreciate your quick response. I hope the storm didn't mess up too much of your life. God bless. Rowdy |
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4 | Love/Feed/Tend His Sheep | Mark 6:34 | Morant61 | 131456 | ||
Greetings Rowdy! I live in Indiana, so the storm hasn't really affected me. However, my mother and sister both live outside of Orlando, FL. :-) Much more is made of the different words for 'love' than is really justified. 'Eros' clearly refers to a purely physical and selfish 'love'. However, the distinction between 'phileo' and 'agapao' isn't nearly as clear. As I mentioned in another post last night, I usually look up various verses that contain the target study word and I check to see how Scripture actually uses the word. If it were true that 'phileo' is a 'lesser' love then one would expect to see it used differently than 'agapao'. However, Scripture actually uses 'phileo' of God's love for us. Here are some examples: John 5:20 - "For the Father loves (phileo) the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, to your amazement he will show him even greater things than these." Is the Father capable of a 'lesser' kind of love? John 11:3 - "So the sisters sent word to Jesus, 'Lord, the one you love (phileo) is sick.'" John 16:27 - "No, the Father himself loves (phileo) you because you have loved (phileo) me and have believed that I came from God." All of these verses use 'phileo' for God's love for Christ, us, or others. 'Phileo' is certainly not used as often as 'agapao'. However, it simply doesn't appear to have had a significantly different meaning than 'agapao'. In fact, in one passage both words clearly are used interchangably. John 11:5 says, "Jesus loved (agapao) Martha and her sister and Lazarus." While John 11:3 says, "So the sisters sent word to Jesus, 'Lord, the one you love (phileo) is sick.'" Some of my Greek resources actually make the case that 'agapao' is a 'colder' and 'less personal' word than 'phileo'. Over time, since 'agapao' was used more than 'phileo', I believe greater importance was attached to it. However, it is difficult to show any great difference of meaning from the text of Scripture. I hope this helps! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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5 | Love/Feed/Tend His Sheep | Mark 6:34 | Rowdy | 131489 | ||
Greek Words for Love, Part 1: I must admit, I didn't dream there was so much information on the internet about this subject, www.biblestudymanuals.net/love.htm. If you'll check out this website, you'll see I had to leave a great deal of information to squeeze on this exerpt. Please forgive. The bottom line is that although I do agree with you there is some small controversy on this subject as you mentioned. But a thorough study as has been cited on this website leads any serious Bible student to one single conclusion and that is there's a very real and distinct different type of love reflected in these two words. Everything about our God is far superior to anything you and I could ever think about man. Nothing we can do or say can even come close. So I must disagree with you, dear friend. I do hope you'll re-study the topic and pray about it. LOVE: A BIBLICAL PERSPECTIVE I) AGAPE LOVE A) INTRODUCTION [The New Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the NT, Joseph Henry Thayer, Hendrickson, Peabosy, Ma, 1981, p. 3]: "agapaO ..... to love, to be full of good-will and exhibit the same... to have a preference for, wish well to, regard the welfare of ... often of the love of Christians towards one another; of the benevolence which God in providing salvation for men, has exhibited by sending His Son to them and giving Him up to death... of the love which led Christ, in procuring human salvation to undergo sufferings and death... of the love with which God regards Christ..." [Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, W. E. Vine, Fleming H. Revell, Old Tappan, N. J., p. 20]: "Agape and agapaO are used in the N.T. (a) to describe the attitude of God toward His Son, John 17:26; the human race, generally, John 3:16; Rom 5:8; and to such as believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, particularly, John 14:21; (b) to convey His will to His children concerning their attitude one toward another, John 13:34, and toward all me, 1 Thess 3:12; 1 Cor 16:14; 2 Pet 1:7 (c) to express the essential nature of God, 1 John 4:8. Love can be known only from the actions it prompts. God's love is seen in the gift of His Son, 1 John 4:9, 10. But obviously this is not the love of complacency, or affection, that is, it was not drawn out by any excellency in its objects, Rom 5:8. It was an exercise of the Divine will in deliberate choice, made without assignable cause save that which lies in the nature of God Himself, cp. Deut 7:7, 8. Love had its perfect expression among men in the Lord Jesus Christ, 2 Cor 5:14; Eph 2:4; 3:19; 5:2; Christian love is the fruit of His Spirit in the Christian, Gal 5:22. Christian love has God for its primary object, and expresses itself first of all in implicit obedience to His commandments, John 14:15, 21, 23; 15:10; 1 John 2:5; 5:3; 2 John 6. Self-will, that is, self-pleasing, is the negation of love to God. Christian love, whether exercised toward the brethren, or toward men generally, is not an impluse from the feelings, it does not always run with the natural inclinations, nor does it spend itself only upon those for whom some affinity is discovered. Love seeks the welfare of all, Rom 15:2, and works no ill to any, 13:8-10; love seeks opportunity to do good to all men, and especially toward them that are of the household of the faith, Gal 6:10. Please read Part 2. Thanks and God bless. Rowdy |
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6 | Love/Feed/Tend His Sheep | Mark 6:34 | Morant61 | 131498 | ||
Greetings Rowdy! These articles sound good, but they don't take the verses I cited for you into consideration at all, where 'phileo' is used of God's love. If 'phileo' is a 'lesser' kind of love, how would you explain the verses that I cited my friend? Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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7 | Love/Feed/Tend His Sheep | Mark 6:34 | Rowdy | 131500 | ||
As I tried to explain in my Post no 131453, it appears that God recognizes in the best of mankind, we usually muster up enough love between family members and maybe even a few select friends as shown in: Luke 6:27 "But I say to you who hear: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28bless those who curse you, and pray for those who spitefully use you. 29To him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer the other also. And from him who takes away your cloak, do not withhold your tunic either. 30Give to everyone who asks of you. And from him who takes away your goods do not ask them back. 31And just as you want men to do to you, you also do to them likewise. 32"But if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. 33And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. 34And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive back, what credit is that to you? For even sinners lend to sinners to receive as much back. 35But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil. 36Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful. The real difference as portrayed above is when we as God's children learn to truly love the most common sinner amongst us, even when he's NOT our friend. We should always love the sinner but hate his sin. Yes, I agree, that's tough to do. That's what makes us human and separates us from God, and separates His Thoughts, His Ways from our thoughts and ways. Surely you've experienced this kind of worldly love in your lifetime. We humans (especially Americans) think so casually about love. I've said it before and will repeat myself: We'll turn to the most treasured being to us (our spouse) on this planet and tell her we'll love her forever and minutes later exclaim with delight we love our favorite food when it's put down in front of us. We humans are so fickle. We love that same person one minute and an hour later fight like cats and dogs over a stupid TV show and whose turn it is to watch their favorite show after promising we'll strive to spend quality time together. No, my friend only God can show us what real, genuine true Agape type love really is. He did it with the sending of His Son for all of us, even the most vile sinner that's ever lived. Would you have done such a thing with your most prized and beloved son or some other family member? Would you have given up that sweet innocent child for some scumbag who doesn't really deserve to be spat upon in the world's judgment? No, I doubt if I would have done such a thing either. That, my friend is what distinguishes between these two kinds of love. You ask "Why? How can this be possible?" I don't really know. All I know is I read it in my Bible and it's endorsed so many, many times by God's Words AND His Actions. Yes, His Actions speak louder than His Words as do ours. Which level of love will we strive for? I'm going to do my best to obey my God and strive for His. Sure, I'll fail and will continue to fail but I'll get back up and continue to try because He told me to. Do continue studying and praying on this, my friend. God bless. Rowdy |
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8 | Love/Feed/Tend His Sheep | Mark 6:34 | Morant61 | 131508 | ||
Greetings Rowdy! I don't think we are on the same page my friend! :-) The verses I cited didn't deal with our love, but God's love. In those verses, 'phileo' is used of God's love. I noticed that many of the definitions in the article are based on silence. There simply aren't any verses that say that one kind of love is better or different than the other. Remember, we don't have 'dictionaries' in the Bible. :-) So, some of the distinctions are simply people's attempts to define the terms that are used in Scripture. Sometimes these attempts can be accurate, but sometimes they are not. This is one of those cases where I believe that too much has been made of the supposed differences. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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