Results 1 - 4 of 4
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Is prophecy dead? | Matt 11:13 | Matt | 1765 | ||
I think one of the confusing things in this entire discourse (I just read through your communication with RCSCROLL) is definition of terms. Prophesies (1 Cor 14:3) translates - to be a prophet, speak forth by divine inspiration; to predict. To break forth under sudden impulse in lofty discourse or in praise of the divine counsels - or under the like prompting, to teach, refute, reprove, admonish, comfort others. (Thayers 4395) If one is to "speak forth under devine inspiration; to predict" I would hold that the two tests I put forth do in fact hold and do not only hold if predicting the future. To be 100 percent correct 100 percent of the time would be an absolute requirement if one was in fact speaking forth by divine inspiration. How would one know if the "prophet" was correct? I would say the best test would be scripture. You also assume that I am assuming that you are only referring to "all the 'wackos' out there are what I mean when I ask about present-day prophets.". While I agree that there are in fact numerous wackos out there I was not in any sense only referring to them. Again these two test are absolutley correct. My first test is just applying the definition of prophet. Someone claiming to be a prophet either is a true prophet or is a false prophet. A true prophet speaks on divine inspiration thereby their prophesy should be 100 percent correct 100 percent of the time. Second we are told to test all things by scripture. A person is a prophet if and only if they meet the full definition of a prophet. Be careful not to apply a part of the definition to make the whole. Just because someone speaks to men for edification and exhortation and consolation does not make them a prophet. A prophet does these things under divine inspiration. A good study here is 2 Cor. 11. As to apostleship, In a broader sense the name is transferred to other eminent Christian teachers; as Barnabas, Acts 14:14, and perhaps also Tmothy and Silvanus, 1 Th. 2:7 Ro. 16:7. But in other cases is to be taken in the narrower sense of the 12. (Thayers 652) Let us be careful with our terms and definitons. There is much difference in perception from person to person in many of the terms we are using. My final thought for now. You mentioned in one of your earlier posts that all things you mention you have experienced. I make the following note out of love. Be careful in using experience as a judge. Our ability to discern truth from experience is very poor. For instance I find the idea of being slain in the Spirit to have no scriptural foundation. The few attempts I have heard to justify this by scripture are a huge stretch. Never base a positon on abscure passages of scripture. Likewise never base them on experience. The ONLY truth we have is that laid out in scripture. I know from what I have read of your comments you agree with this. Let us continue to strive, with God's help, to constantly become more grounded in it. God Bless. I enjoy these conversations very much. Iron sharpens iron. |
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2 | Is prophecy dead? | Matt 11:13 | charis | 1766 | ||
Amen! Iron sharpens iron. I appreciate your comments very much. Allow me to start at the end, as I think it helps explain my position. I agree, definition of terms is important-what is 'slain' in the Spirit. I said that I had experienced all the above, and by that I meant that I have witnessed it. My explanation was poor, and I apologize. I have never personally been slain, but I have seen those who have felt the presence of God in such a powerful way that they could not stand. This was totally spontaneous, unplanned, no 'catchers' were waiting (prompting :-) and no hand was laid (pushed :-) I know the person well, and I believe it was of the Spririt. I have also seen 'Toronto-style mass-slaying' and I think it is (for the most part) NOT of the Spirit. The whole 'put-eachother-down' thing, with 'catchers' and 'manifestations' and 'Holy laughter,' etc. did not fit with any scriptural pattern that I know of. Neither am I fond of 'Ezekiel-like' prophecies (gobbledegook) or outrageous predictive prophecies that mislead and eventually hurt people. I know people who prophesy, whose words of exhortation, consolation and edification strengthened the church. They are mature and responsible, and they are not showmen, but godly people. I have seen false prophets and charlatans as well. As to the 100 percent thing, this is difficult to measure one way or the other. If you mean 'infallibility,' no one comes under that category, except the Lord Jesus. Many prophet's lives were a mess. But when they wrote it down by the Spirit, it was tested and proven. In the same manner, a present-day prophet must be responsible to speak God's with care, under His unction. I know people of this sort, their words are tested. I do not believe in 'hallway prophecy,' nor do I believe in 'endless diatribe' as prophecy. Prophecy must have purpose, and those purposes must be fulfilled, otherwise, indeed, the person is not a prophet. I do not believe that the 5-fold ministry has been emasculated, not do I believe that the Bible teaches that prophecy is dead. You are right, all prophecy must be in accord with scripture, and must be spoken in order and with responsibility. I still see that the Bible speaks of post-ascension apostles and prophets. (Just to clarify, are you saying that because no one could be 100 percent correct, then there are no prophets?) As with my other colleagues, I invite you to a 'non-Charismatic' church that operates in the gifts of the Spirit any time you are in Yokohama. Respectfully in Christ Jesus. charis |
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3 | Is prophecy dead? | Matt 11:13 | Matt | 1769 | ||
Just to clarify, are you saying that because no one could be 100 percent correct, then there are no prophets? No, I am saying that I would put anyone that claimed to be a prophet to the tests I presented. I also want to clarify that I am not saying that the individual would have to be 100 percent correct 100 percent of the time but that their prophesying would. You are right when you mentioned the record of prophets whose lives were a mess (by the way isn't encouraging to see God use ordinary men such as these in extraordinary ways?). What I can say is that these men's prophesies were 100 percent correct 100 percent of the time for if a man speaks from God those words cannot be erroneous or incorrect. I do not take the stance that there are no prophets today. I do take the stance that I know of none in the definition I put forth in our previous discourse. There are absolutely some very spiritually mature and wise men speaking and preaching, exhorting, rebuking and comforting. I am here today under God's grace because God used some men such as these in my life. I could not however place them in the previously defined category of prophet. I am very careful in regards to things such as this as I have been burned before by the words and ideas of men that use scripture to support their own ideas instead of using scripture to form their ideas. Where scripture speaks let us listen and were scripture is silent... As we have discussed this I think I am coming to some clarity on a few things. So much of the terms we have been using are so closely aligned with the current word of faith movement (example: Toronto movement and those like it in Florida, Texas and elsewhere) that many people upon hearing them tend to think of them in those terms. I would agree that these movements are not of the Spirit and would probably go further, based on your previous response, and say that they are heretical. If you are interested, a couple of GREAT books on the subject are 'Counterfeit Revival' and 'Christianity in Crisis' both by Hank Hanegraff. These are nonsensationalist looks at these events from a scriptural basis. I would strongly recommend them to anyone interested in apologetics. In areas such as this I just hope that we can entertain them as an inhouse debate and not divide over them. God's ways are not my ways and His thoughts not my thoughts. I just place myself before Him and pray that He use me and guide me through the leading of the Sirit and the scriptures. Again, thank you for this apportunity to discuss this. I hope to do more on this or other topics. I am trying to manage more time to spend on this site as I am finding it a blessing. God's love. |
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4 | Is prophecy dead? | Matt 11:13 | charis | 1770 | ||
Well said, kind sir. Matt, I highly regard anyone who can state a belief without resorting to 'absolutism' or bigotry. I, too, look forward to mature discussion, and pray constantly for the Spirit to guide this forum of saints. My purpose and heart's desire is the unity of His church. And now, my friend, it is late in Yokohama. Good night for me, and have a good day to you, in Christ Jesus. |
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