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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | The coming of the Lord at the rapture | Joel 2:31 | Radioman2 | 86294 | ||
The coming of the Lord at the rapture 'The Bible clearly and repeatedly teaches that the Second Coming of Christ and the rapture of the Church will occur after the opening of the sixth seal, sometime after the midpoint of Daniel's 70th Week (often erroneously called The Tribulation). If you believe that the rapture occurs at any other time than this, we invite you to see if your beliefs can stand in light of these five scriptures . . . 'In general, there are four events that will characterize the coming of the Lord at the rapture: '1. The return of Jesus Christ '2. The raising of the dead in Christ '3. The rapture of the Church, or the gathering together of the elect. '4. The cosmic signs in heaven that signal Christ's coming and, at the same time, usher in the Day of the Lord (which contains God's wrath). 'Look for the relationship of these four events in the verses below. ------------------------------ '1. Matthew 24:29-31 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." '2. 1 Thess. 4:16-17, 5:1-4 "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus, we shall always be with the Lord...But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night [for unbelievers]...But you, brethren are not in darkeness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief." '3. 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 "Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed — in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." '4. Joel 2:31 "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord." '5. Revelation 6:12-13, 7-9,14 "I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood. And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind...After these things, I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb...These are the ones that come out of the Great Tribulation...'" ____________________ (www.strongtowerpublishing.com/fivescripturechallenge.htm) |
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2 | The coming of the Lord at the rapture | Joel 2:31 | Scribe | 86318 | ||
Part 2 of 2 One of the most powerful arguments for pre-trib, is the fact that we are not appointed to wrath. That is mentioned in several places, one of the places is in Romans. If we are to be delivered from the wrath to come it does not make sense that we would have to live under the outpouring of the seals, bowls, vials, trumpets, etc where the wrath of God is poured out in the Day of the Lord. If we do live through it then the only theological answer that fits would be that we would be supernaturally protected, but that is not the case in the book of Revelation, those saints there are allowed by God to be killed, and forbidden to fight back. Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. Revelation 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. We see that the 144000 are sealed before judgement is poured out, and maybe that means all saints and that they are protected. I do not believe saints are going to be killed by the wrath of God, the judgments that come upon the wicked in Revelation. So that leaves only two things, they are supernaturally protected or, they die under the persecution of men and the antichrist, and do not die from the judgments that the antichrist and the wicked are dieing from. This might give you encouragement but it does not give me any. I think that the only way Paul’s instructions to comfort one another with these words applies is if I am promised not to see death, as he stated a generation would not see death. So we have conflicting messages often being thrown at us from these different views of prophesy. There are saints in the tribulation.. they die and are seen in heaven.. But Paul said those that are changed and rise do not die.. so those saints killed for their faith in Revelation are not of that generation that do not die... The saints mentioned in revelation are allowed to be killed by the antichrist and forbidden to fight back, so they are not the group that are changed at the "end of the tribulation" as you have suggested is the "only possible" meaning. Now we are left with the question if the saints in Revelation are not the ones that are changed and rise and do not die, then who are the saints that this will happen too? Is it the ones that are left at the end of the tribulation.. a remnant after the holocaust? Or is it the group that are ready for the Coming of the Lord in a pretribulation rapture, and who go out much more triumphantly shining like the sun, leaving the world to face the wrath of God. |
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