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NASB | Joel 2:31 "The sun will be turned into darkness And the moon into blood Before the great and awesome day of the LORD comes. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Joel 2:31 "The sun will be turned into darkness And the moon into blood Before the great and terrible day of the LORD comes. [Is 13:6, 9-11; 24:21-23; Ezek 32:7-10; Matt 24:29, 30; Rev 6:12-17] |
Subject: The coming of the Lord at the rapture |
Bible Note: Part 1 of 2 Matthew 24:29-31 is a good verse to base a post tribulation rapture view. If it were the only scripture on the subject I would not think there would be any other view but post tribulation among the saints. However there are other verses, quite a few in fact. Listing them all and reading them in context there are going to be different conclusions among some of us. Paul said we see through a glass darkly but then (when the perfect day comes) we will see clearly. Until then we all have to walk by faith in the illumination of scripture we possess. I am not sure whether there is a pre tribulation rapture of the saints or a post tribulation rapture. So far I am leaning toward both. Here is one of the reasons I have considered a pre-tribulation rapture. Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. Now it could mean "pray that you will be able to make it through all these things." but the general consensus among most scholars has been that it means escape completely as in not face them at all. But I am sure that will be debated until Jesus comes. It does not make sense that we should pray for death to escape them, no where in the scripture does FAITH pray for death, as a means of escape, only unbelief does that. Another reason is that in Rev 4 we have the 4 living creatures and the 24 elders all singing the same song, they sing Revelation 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; This makes it "clear" beyond controversy (at least in my mind) that the 4 creatures and 24 elders are simply a symbolic form or redeemed saints. They are not just Jews, because they are from every people and nation and tongue, they are not just 24 because there are more than 24 people groups, the number 24 is significant because it is a vision of the Levitical Priesthood, they also served in the temple 24 by lot and yet came from a group of over 24000. We see here a vision of the glorified saints serving in their heavenly offices, and they are "as angels" having inherited offices we once thought reserved only for cherubs and angels, they are seen in the 4 creatures and representing authority over the created world and say holy holy holy, as the cherubs of old, and yet they sing this song,, saying they are people redeemed by the blood. That being established, we conclude that before the very first seal is opened there are redeemed saints in heaven who are partaking of this heavenly scene. So who are they? Are they raptured saints or saints that have died and are with Christ even now? I don't know for sure. But if they are raptured saints then when does it occur? Could it be that the very translation of John is a prophetic type of the translation of the saints, so that the Voice he hears as a Trumpet saying Come up Hither (voice of the archangel and trump of God) are a type of the rapture that occurs and the next scene he is beholding glorified saints, and not only that but after the Lamb is declared the only one worthy to open the seals, these glorified saints are the ones that say COME and see, and a seal is opened, it is as if they are partaking in the releasing of the judgments that are poured out, as if the Lamb allows them to have a part. Indeed the saints shall judge the world. A common explanation for Matt 24:29-31 is that there is another gathering of saints who were saved during the tribulation. (continued on next post) |
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M.Royal |