Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | How did sin originate | Is 14:12 | New Creature | 43832 | ||
I read in Gen. 1:31 "And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, [it was] very good." Everything God created was very good. There was nothing bad about anything He created. I believe that! I also believe God created Lucifer and God didn't create Lucifer into a sinner. However the the first sin is attributed to Lucifer. So what EXACTLY caused Lucifer to commit the first sin, who later tempted Adam and Eve to sin, since we know that God is not the originator of sin and does not tempt anyone? How did the temptation of Lucifer come about or originate? James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: |
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2 | How did sin originate | Is 14:12 | Robert Nicholson | 43833 | ||
New Creature: In Isaiah we read of the fall of Lucifer. Lucifer is a created being by God It began in his thoughts "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God" Isaiah 14:13 In v. 14 we read "I will be like the most high" Lucifer was not content with the sphere in which he was placed by God. He wanted to be like God. Were not these his words in his temptation of Eve. You will be like gods knowing both good and evil Gen. 3:5 You are correct that God did not make lucifer a sinner. The verse which you have referred to in James 1. In v. 14 we are given the pattern "But every man is tempted when he is drawn away of his own lust and is enticed. Then when lust hath conceived it bringeth forth sin; and sin, when it is finished, bringeth death. This is the LDS of scripture. I believe that lucifier is the originator of evil in the universe and introduced humans to it on earth resulting in the disobedience of man, thus plunging the whole world under sin. Your brother by his grace Robert |
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3 | How did sin originate | Is 14:12 | New Creature | 43941 | ||
But if Lucifer was created good originally and there was no sin, what then was the process which caused Lucifer to commit the first sin? | ||||||
4 | How did sin originate | Is 14:12 | Robert Nicholson | 43961 | ||
New Creature: I knew you were going to ask this question! I would ask "What cause Eve to disobey God and why did Adam wilfully disobey God? They both knew the consequences at least at an intellectual level. I believe if we can understand the process which humans went through, we will have some understanding of the mind of the tempter. In Genesis 3 we find that the first thing the serpent did was question the word of God "Hath God said? Gen. 3:1 We find that Eve knows what God has commanded and the consequences of disobedience. However, we find that she is taken in by the serpent's part truth. He told her "you shall not die, for God knows that your eyes will be opened, and ye shall be as god knowing both good and evil. Consider the process of disobedience. First of all she allows a seed of doubt to form regarding God's word. Secondly, she is tempted by the look of the food of the tree that it appeared to be good and would make one wise. At this point she partakes of the tree and gives to her husband who eats willingly. We know the rest of the story. That "by one man sin entered the world and death by sin, so that death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" Romans 5:12 Why did two people who were sinless allow themselves to disobey God? They made a personal choice because of their desire to be more than God intended them to be. No one forced them to disobey God. How does this relate to the serpent or Satan? Satan is referred to as "the annoited cherub that covereth; I have set thee so: Thou wast upon the Holy mountain of God; Thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in all thy ways from the day thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. Ezekiel 28 :14-15 Satan appears to have had a place of leadership under God. He was exceptionally wise and yet from within his mind came the desire to be equal to or above God. Lucifer was judged by God and was cast down from his heavenly position. However, his final Judgement will not come until the end of the great tribulation at which time he is cast into the lake of fire (Rev. 20:10) When we meet Satan as the serpent in the garden of Eden, he is one of the most beautiful and crafty creatures who is judged after his temptation of Eve to the level of a loathsome reptile. We must remember that Satan has many guises. However, back to your original question? I believe that the process that brought Lucifer down was similar to that which came upon humans. Lucifer had observed the Holiness of God, in fact he was created for God for a heavenly service. Within his mind with all his wisdom he coveted that which was never intended to be his, and that was to rise himself above the throne of God in rebellion. Lucifer made a choice and as in the case of man no one forced him and that choice brought about horific consequences. More importantly, we must remember that Satan is alive and well on planet earth and his objective is always to destroy the things and people of God by whatever means. Paul in writing to the Corinthians reminds us of his subtile ways: "Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices." 2 Cor. 2:11 This is a very difficult question and I hope I have been able to shed some understanding. May God richly bless you Robert |
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5 | How did sin originate | Is 14:12 | New Creature | 44081 | ||
Robert, thank you for your well thought out reply, along with the way you used the Bible to support your position. I think your answer was very helpful to me. The following verse which you posted reenforced my belief that Lucifer was created perfect. Thou wast upon the Holy mountain of God; Thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in all thy ways from the day thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. Ezekiel 28 :14-15 And we know that this being, which was created perfect, was the originator of sin, and in fact is called the father or author of lies. So if Lucifer was created perfect, then Lucifer must have been created by the Sovereign God with the "free will" of choice. God must allowed Lucifer and the 1/3 of angelic beings to exercise their God given right to choose to either obey or disobey. And Adam and Eve must of also exercised their God given freedom of choice to disobey God in the Garden. I think you helped me think this through, although that raises more questions in my mind, like, after the fall in the Garden, does mankind in their fallen state, still possess a God given ability to choose right or wrong, or was that lost in the fall? If you would like to help me with this question also I would appreciate it very much Again, I thank you Robert |
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6 | How did sin originate | Is 14:12 | Robert Nicholson | 44184 | ||
Greetings New Creature: According to Eph 2:1 "we were dead in tresspasses and in sins before we were made alive in Christ." Adam and Eve were placed in the position of spiritual death the moment they disobeyed God. In fact they were ashamed of their nakedness and try to cover themselves with fig leaves. Gen. 3:7 Even though they were dead, "they heard the voice of God" They were dead and could not change their situation (helpless), but they were not deaf to the call of God. This is where the idea of free choice verses God making the choice to call them. God knew their condition, he knew their need, but he wanted them to acknowledge that need before he would take the next step in restoring them to himself. God asked two questions which apply to sinners even today. "Where art thou?" and to Eve "What is this that thou hast done?" Gen 3:10-11 They acknowledge their sin and need "I was afraid, because I was naked and I hid myself" V.10 We find that God makes a covenant with them with a promise in V15 in of a redeemer through the seed of the woman speaking of Christ. God covered their nakedness with coats of skins. This is a picture of a sinner being clothed by God in the righteousness of Christ and made fit for God's presence. The only choice which Adam and Eve made was to sin. It was God who made the choice to call them and redeem them bringing them back into fellowship with him. We must remember that the plan of salvation for lost sinners was all of the grace of God. Humankind in his sinful state did not seek after God. Romans 3:11. The only choice we could make as humans was to continue building sin upon sin. Even the things which we did before we were saved which may have been kind works or goodness to others, none of this could earn us any peace with God. Do lost sinners have the ability to choose right from wrong. I believe that according to Romans 1;20 God has not left humans without a testimony of himself in creation. In Romans 2"14-15 we find that the Gentiles who know not God, "do by nature the things contained in the law" which would show us that the law is written in their hearts, in other words they have a conscience. The fact that they have this testimony of God and have a conscience which would convict them of wrong only makes them more responsible before God. However, as I have referred to Rom.3 a person in their natural state "does not seek after God." How then do we ever receive salvation? It is God by his Spirit who strives with sinners and shows them their utter, hopless condition. It is God by his Spirit through his word whether written or spoken who opens the understanding of lost sinners to the truth of the substitutionary sacrifice of Christ for our sins. The moment we rest, trust or believe this truth, it is God by his Spirit who indwells the believer giving them assurance of eternal life, a new nature within and power to live for Christ in our daily lives. What I am trying to show in the above paragraph is that eternal life is a free gift given to us by God and that he is the one who calls us, who convicts us, who enlightens us, who saves us and who keeps us. We are totally dependent on him. At one time I thought that I had made certain choices before I was saved. Yet in retrospect, I can see that God was in it all. It was no accident that a preacher from many miles away visited our farmhouse and brought the gospel to people who had never heard it before. It was no accident that my father was gloriously saved and immediately spread the good news to his family. I can see now that when as a young boy I learned about my sin and my need to be born again, that it was God by his Spirit who used my father and others to get that important fact across to me. I learned by bitter experience that I could not get saved whenever I wanted to. I thought I believed the gospel and God's promise to save those who believe and yet I was not saved. The day that I came to know Christ, I was alone on the roadside after school, I was in torment over my dilemma, not saved. I tried to believe and yet it seemed that there was only darkness in my soul. I got down on my knees and cryed to God "please help me to get saved" It was only moments later as my mind went over John 3:16 that God revealed to me the truth that I was the whosoever for whom Christ died. I took him at his word "that I would not perish but have everlasting life" On the other hand, we have many scriptures which invite sinners to come to Christ. We have examples of those who came to him in their need when he was on earth and had their sins forgiven and their bodies healed. Even Jesus warned of the urgency in coming to know him. "Strive to enter in at the strait gate" I have told my friends that if they are being convicted of their sin, if God is dealing with their soul be thankful for it and do not trifle with his call. Robert |
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