Results 1 - 4 of 4
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Enter the Dragon! | Gen 3:1 | Lionstrong | 19704 | ||
ENTER THE DRAGON ("...He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth becase there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies." John 8:44 ) From a Calvinistic point of view, Man was created good and then, according to the will of God, became evil. This is also the case with some of the angels; they were condemned when they sinned (II Pet. 2:4; Jude 6). But in Satan's case, how would it be contrary to the goodness of God for God to have created Satan evil? Is it not the right of the the Potter to make a vessel as he sees fit, to "prepare some for destruction? (Rom 9:21) Was Agatha Christy evil for writing murder mysteries? And weren't they "good" stories? But it is noteworthy that though everything was made in the space of six days, including Satan, his first appearance on the scene is as an evil being. If he were created good how did he fall and so quickly? (Note that I do not accept the popular interpretaion of Ezek. 28 regarding the fall of Satan.) Lionstrong |
||||||
2 | Enter the Dragon! | Gen 3:1 | Jensen | 20268 | ||
Dear Lionstrong...You are correct and I apologize for not doing better. You do not ask one question. You ask five. I only see one that is important for a study ( maybe two) but I understand that sometimes the best debates must begin with non-essentials to make a point. If we only ask rhetorical questions we will never address substance. Here are the five questions you asked. 1. How would it be contrary to the goodness of God for God to have created Satan evil? ...Good Question...I will try to answer later. 2. Is it not the right of the Potter to make a vessel as he sees fit, to "prepare some for destruction? .....It is not the right of the potter to make a vessel that will result in harm to others. He may make something that looks like a vessel and save it for destruction but it is not a good vessel and is, therefore, no vessel at all since we expect vessels to be a certain way. He does not have the right to put a defect in the vessel that would defeat the purpose of the vessel. Making a vessel with a defect, and offering for use, is dishonest. That does not mean that the potter does not have the power to do so, only that it would be dishonest. "God don't make no junk." In everyday life we expect to get what we are paying for. If we were to buy a vessel from this potter and it had a hole in the bottom so that the vessel carried no water, we would return to the potter and expect that he make good on it. The potter could not argue that he had a right to make this vessel the way he did, eventhough it harmed others or did not perform the way we were led to believe. That would be an argument away from the standard of good. (Which is written on our hearts) 3. Was Agatha Christy evil for writing murder mysteries? ....No.... 4. And weren't they "good" stories? ....Some were, some were not....it is a matter of taste. I do not like mystery stories. I like science fiction and biographies. 5. If he (Satan) were created good how did he fall so quickly? .... I addressed this question in an earlier post that tried to explain how "time" is relative. I still offer that post as a scientific proof/theory that Satan is "timeless" for the purpose of our discussion. He had a start and he will have a stop. But his time is not like our time. Now to the first question. Evil by definition is sin. All sin is evil. Anything evil is already sin, or a result of sin. Anyone who brings about evil is said to have sinned, or "missing the mark", so that for God to have brought about evil in the form of Satan, or anything else, would be missing the mark. Further, we agreed that Lucifer was created in the first six days of Earths existence. GE 1:31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning--the sixth day. At one point...., at some point within the first six days Lucifer was also "very good" if we are to believe what God said. I want to thank you, Lionstrong, for putting me on this study. You really know how to ask a pointed question that cuts to the heart of issues. Since I have read some of your other posts I know that you are familiar with the Scriptures that support my position in general. I try to avoid "dualing scriptures" if I can :-) Now if I have answered as you instructed will you please answer my question. Do you, or do you not, believe that God created evil? God Bless....Jensen |
||||||
3 | Enter the Dragon! | Gen 3:1 | Lionstrong | 20292 | ||
Thank you, Jensen, 2) The weakness of analogies is that they can be extended beyond the purpose of the author. So is the case here. Paul's point in Rom 9 is that the thing made has no say in what it is or the purposes the potter has for it. That's the extent of his analogy. You've taken the potter and put him in a community of other men. This extends the analogy into areas that Paul does not extend it. To so extend it would put God into a community of gods. In Paul's analogy God is the potter and EVERYTHING else are the things made. So there is no one else to harm. He makes what he wants to make for the purpose he wants to make them. The things made have no say. And in the case of God, there is no one else in his community (there are no other gods) to harm with his vessels. 3) We're of one mind here! But of course you see that this has implications on the first question. 4) Again, we walk together, but again be mindful of the implications! 5) Although I don't share you view of science, your explanation does not hold water. The buckets in this case are spiritual not physical. So even if physical bodies are affected temporally by gravity, pure spiritual beings cannot be. If what you offered is SCIENTIFIC proof, it is proof that applies to the physical reality only, because that is all the reality with which science can deal. 1) Not all evil is sin, because not all evil is moral. The evil that destroyed the World Trade Center towers was moral. The evil of floods, earthquakes and volcanoes is amoral. So it is with the “good” creation. As I explained to Steve, I think it was Steve, this also is not a moral good. God created light on the first day and esteemed it good. Morally good? No, light is amoral! It was good in that it was exactly the way God wanted it to be, and he was pleased with it. So it was at the conclusion of the sixth day; it was all very good. But this is all beside the point, because we are talking about a creature who IS morally evil! Would it be contrary to God's goodness (moral and otherwise) for him to create a wicked creature? The implications of your answers to 3) and 4), with which I agree, is no. To answer to your question, did God in fact create Satan as such; I can give the politically discrete answer of saying that the Scripture does not make that point explicit, but it would not be contrary to the goodness of God if he had created Satan evil. Peace, Lionstrong |
||||||
4 | Enter the Dragon! | Gen 3:1 | Jensen | 20408 | ||
Dear Lionstrong...We agree, ...again:-) You wrote... "To answer to your question, did God in fact create Satan as such; I can give the politically discrete answer of saying that the Scripture does not make that point explicit,....... Peace, Lionstrong" And peace indeed! (now to the second part of your thought...) God Bless....Jensen |
||||||