Results 1 - 2 of 2
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Adam and Eve, no fall from grace? | Gen 2:16 | Emmaus | 31857 | ||
Lionstrong, You miss my point entirely. It is this. Adam and Eve were created by God in a state of grace or justice before God. They lost that grace or justice through their sin and the fall. Jesus' saving grace is a restoration of that same grace that makes us just before God. It is called by some sanctifying grace, the grace that makes us holy and able to be in God's presence. It is the grace that is the very life of God in us. If Adam and Eve had that grace and lost it through free will, how can we say that we can not loose it in the same manner by a free will rejection just as they did? Unless Jesus has destroyed our free will in the restoration of grace. I still say your version is tanatmount to saying we have to sin in order to merit sanctifying grace and so is a wierd type of works righteousness. Adam and Eve did not merit the original sanctifying grace and neither do we the same sanctifying grace that is restored to us by Jesus and by which we are justified and saved. I guess we are just talking past each other here. I think I will let the matter rest, having made my point as clearly as I can. Emmaus |
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2 | Adam and Eve, no fall from grace? | Gen 2:16 | Lionstrong | 32422 | ||
Hi Emmaus, You ask, "If Adam and Eve had that grace and lost it through free will, how can we say that we can not loose it in the same manner by a free will rejection just as they did?" Well, first, they never had that grace. And second, Whomever God is powerful enough to save by his grace, He's powerful enough to KEEP saved by his grace, because grace does not depend on him to who it is given; but on Him who gives it. You, write, "Unless Jesus has destroyed our free will in the restoration of grace." First, since grace was not lost it cannot be restored. Second, in the Fall we lost our freedom to chose good. (Gen 6:5 "Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." Has man become any better since then? (See Rom 3: 10-18 for the answer.) Because believers are in a state of grace, they now are free again to CHOSE good, although it takes the power of the Holy Spirit for us to DO good: Gal 5:16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. Gal 5:17 For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please. You say, "I still say your version is tanatmount to saying we have to sin in order to merit sanctifying grace and so is a wierd type of works righteousness." You say this, Emmaus, because I say grace is for the needy only. Hmm, sounds very similar to how Paul was slandered for preaching grace. Be careful, Emmaus! Rom 3:8 And why not say (as we are slanderously reported and as some claim that we say), "Let us do evil that good may come"? Their condemnation is just. (You've modified your original tern by adding the adjective "sanctifying." But, no matter...) I STILL SAY that God's grace (sanctifying or otherwise) is not for those who don't need it, but for sinners alone. In fact, "...where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Rom 5:20,21) "a wierd type of works righteousness," you say? It may be weird in your mind, Emmaus my friend, and maybe you don't know this "weird type of works righteousness," but it's called the righteousness of God (2 Cor 5:21) and it's given by God's grace alone through faith alone in Christ Jesus alone. He is the one who did all of the WORK to earn this righteousness for all his believing people, for they were "dead in [their] trespasses and sins, Eph 2:2 in which [they] formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Eph 2:3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. Eph 2:4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), Peace, Lionstrong |
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