Results 1 - 3 of 3
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Freefall from grace, then and now? | Gen 2:16 | Lionstrong | 31364 | ||
Hi again Emmaus, I understand that RC's have several definitions of grace. Protestants have several too, but the first is the unmerited favor of God, that is, to give us a good that we don't deserve. Through Christ God extends his unmerited favor to sinners. He gives us faith in Christ and life eternal that we do not deserve. Our parents, in an unfallen state continued to earn God's favor, that is, God did not need to be gracious to them as they continued in perfect obedience. Not until they through disobedience fell out of his favor did God graciously cover their shame (Gen 3:21). So the Protestant understanding of Scripture is that our first parents were not in a state of grace before the fall. And they did not lose grace in the Fall, because they never had it or needed it before the Fall! Peace, Lionstrong |
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2 | Adam and Eve, no fall from grace? | Gen 2:16 | Emmaus | 31513 | ||
Lionstong, No fall from grace? You said: "So the Protestant understanding of Scripture is that our first parents were not in a state of grace before the fall. And they did not lose grace in the Fall, because they never had it or needed it before the Fall! " Are there others on this forum that believe this? Did the reformers believe this? Please quote them if they did. Adam and Eve did not fall from grace!? What then did they fall from and what did did Jesus's sacrifice restore? If the creation of Adam and Eve from nothing in immortal bodies and daily face to face fellowship with God as his children is not unmerited favor what is? What did they do before their creation to earn this favor? Did not Jesus restore what was lost? Are we not "new creations" with the promise even of immortal bodies at the resurection? And if fellowship with God as his children was not an unmerited favor and that which was lost and restored, what was lost and what was restored? Were not Adam and Eve and all us us disgraced as a result of what they did? No pun intended. All of which takes us away from the original questions you did not answer. Do you believe Adam and Eve thought they could not loose Eden and once we are restored to justification bt Christ do we still have free will as Adam and Eve did? Emmaus |
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3 | Adam and Eve, no fall from grace? | Gen 2:16 | Reformer Joe | 31530 | ||
What did Adam and Eve fall from? The Westminster Shorter Catechism addresses this: "Q10. How did God create man? A. God created man male and female, after his own image, in knowledge, righteousness, and holiness, with dominion over the creatures." This is the estate from which humanity fell. We no longer fear God, which is the beginning of knowledge (Proverbs 1:7). We are obviously no longer righteous (Romans 3:10). Nor are we holy. All of this we collectively lost as a people when our first parents sinned. I do not want to speak for Lionstrong, but I think he was referring to saving grace when he said that Adam and Eve did not need it. Our very lives, as you have correctly stated (and the Reformers certainly agreed) are unmerited gifts from God. Adam and Eve, pre-Fall, simply did not have any need for the special grace God extends to sinners in spite of their unrighteousness, because there WAS no unrighteousness before the fatal bite of fruit. --Joe! |
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