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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Heb. 6:4-6 Security | Gen 1:1 | lightedsteps | 219961 | ||
Hi Beja Your thoughts on Spurgeon's sermon, "I was hoping for more on how this fits into the context. I am not saying he is wrong or right, but due to the great contention over this passage I was hoping he would make his case stronger." my answer Are you saying that based solely on the fact Spurgeon did not make a stronger case by bringing it back to the context of the entire passage you cannot accept his interpretation as correct? As you have stated there is great contention over this passage. Has anyone else made a better case by doing those things you say? your thoughts "Basically I think if one was to debate the issue and argue his view two things would need to be established in light of what he said." 1. First it would need to be established that the notion of unshakeable salvation was so imbedded into the author and reader's thinking, that they would have understood an impossible situation was being discussed as Spurgeon is suggesting. There is no such assertion in the text. The only way you can put it there is to consider it "a given." my answer It is hard for us to understand the beliefs held by those of the first church. We do not have the benefit of hearing firsthand what the Apostles taught. If the assertion you are referring to is missing. Was it Spurgeon or the Author of Hebrews that failed to make this assertion? 1) It must have been the author because "There is no such assertion in the text" then there must have been the "GIVEN" in the authors mind. Is that then what Spurgeon has seen which would then account for his lack of connecting it to the context of the passage in which it appears. Because it is a truth an understanding that would stand on its own merit. Therefore it became an interjection by the author in his teaching to a people that new these things. Question Does a truth of God that has not been connected to the overall context of the book or chapter in which it appears cease to be a truth? We need to understand and remember these books were written to churches that didn't have the canon of scripture that we possess today. They didn't have the benefit of understanding how things are to be read in context and in light of other scripture. Therefore did they have a better or different understanding of the reality of salvation than we do today? Where these things we need weren't needed by them. We only have what has been written and the interpretations of those teachings. We on the other hand have what could be called denominational doctrines. These doctrines can be arrived at when reading exactly the same piece of scripture but coming to opposing doctrines. 1Co 1:12,13 12) Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13) Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 1Co 3:3,4 3) For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4) For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? Because of the differences in our beliefs today are we not yet carnal? What have we lost? What I am saying is there are truths to be found in the bible that we will never be able to come to or believe in or avail ourselves of because our doctrinal beliefs have shut the door to those truths. If it is a contextual issue on your part then doesn't chapter 10 satisfy that? Your brother Lightedsteps |
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2 | Heb. 6:4-6 Security | Gen 1:1 | Beja | 219976 | ||
Light, Let me clarify my thoughts in a few concise statements, so that any further statements I make in a less organized way aren't misunderstood. 1. I believe that none who come to saving faith and repentance through Christ will ever loose their salvation. 2. I believe all scripture when rightly understood agrees with itself, therefore this passage can not be teaching the elect loosing their salvation. 3. I believe that this is a difficult passage, and therefore we can not simply say it says one thing without a strong defense, and then wonder why people don't just "believe it" to be the right interpretation. 4. Anytime, anywhere in scripture that I can not see -why- an author said what he did when he did, then I assume there is something I have not fully understood yet, even though I might understand the passage for the most part. Some of the best insights I've gleaned in the past why preparing sermons, was when I refused to stop until I knew why the train of thought went from one subject to the next the way it did. 5. I do not see why at this point in time, the author of Hebrews decided to present a hypothetically impossible situation about loosing salvation. I can understand somebody doing that, and I can understand the values of it as Spurgeon presented it, though I can not understand how that particular thing fits into what the author of hebrews was saying before and after he said it. 6. Because I can not see how it fits with that context, I assume there is something I do not yet grasp about the passage. That could mean that Spurgeon is right, and I just need to figure out how it fits. Or, that could mean Spurgeon is wrong. But what it certainly means is that I haven't fully figured it out yet and therefore I must keep questioning my understanding of the passage and putting it to the test. That sums up my thoughts on it, I hope it helped clarify what I am thinking. In Christ, Beja |
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3 | Heb. 6:4-6 Security | Gen 1:1 | lightedsteps | 219985 | ||
Hi Beja I can honestly say we are of the same mind as far as the irrevocable nature of our salvation. I also respect your integrity as for your seeking of the truth. I feel a mutual striving for this illusive knowledge. Always keeping in mind our God is a rewarder of those that diligently seek Him. You are right I do the same thing as I believe everyone that desires to possess the truth should do. Never giving up for in our indever we are in effect seeking knocking and asking. With that in mind we know we will be rewarded by God. He has promised our labors will not be in vain. We should persevere being diligent to rightly divide the word of truth. A tool that I have used most often is to recite a passage (I am having trouble understanding) out loud attempting to capture the same tone as the author meant them. Even as though God Himself was speaking these very words to me. I have found when I do this if I take these words spoken in the bible personally I can then hear the truth to be found in them. In doing so I have experienced God speaking His word to me in such a way that it has at times changed the belief I had in a certain passage. When we read the bible we do so with our reason our intellect we also interpret what is being taught within the passage comparing what we are reading with what we already know. There are times "we" might be getting in our own way. But when we read a passage out loud that we are having trouble with we then only hear it our brains are incapable of speaking hearing reasoning interpreting comparing at the same time. Our intellect then is effectively bypassed. If we are intent on speaking the words as they would have been said we will then hear them as the would have been meant. At this point I would advise you to read from Hebrews 5:11 through 6:9 this seems as though it could be a complete thought all of which would then be in context. Maybe your hearing it rather than studying it will help. We have a tendency to keep seeing the same things over and over again. My prayer is that this will aid in your understanding lighted steps |
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