Results 1 - 3 of 3
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | EXPLAIM CHAPTER 3 VERSE 5 | John | g3ills | 102754 | ||
junmeskie, I cannot comment on some of the scriptures that you used for the simple fact that I have not much knowledge on them e.g. Ezek. But the other scriptures that you are using does not agree with your commentary of them. It will be probably unwise to get into a debate over baptism, but scripture speaks of one baptism (Eph.4:5), what do you suppose scripture is speaking of? Keep in mind I Cor. 12:13 "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body..." Now, the water baptism of which you speak is not the cleansing agent that causes us to be acceptable. You stated that "we are adopted to His family, but before we are accepted, we must be cleansed by taking a shower to take off dirts." If that be the case, then what do we do with Hebrews 9:22? It is the blood of Jesus Christ that washed away our sins, not water baptism. Being baptised into Christ as you stated from Rom.6:3, goes along with ICor.12:13. What we do in the water is symbolic of what The Spirit had done upon our believing in the finished work of The Lord Jesus. You used 1Pet.3:21 to say that baptism now saves you, the rest of that verse disagrees with your commentary also for is says, "(not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:". If we be honest with ourselves about baptism in water, we would note where that water goes. Not to the heart and conscience, but just the outward body. I believe that the washing of regeneration in Titus 5:3 you mentioned, goes with Eph.5:26. Christ gave Himself for the church "That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,". I leave room junmeskie, that my observation may not be absolutly right, but this is were I stand. Yes I believe that we are born again by baptism, but not the going down into the water, but the baptism of The Spirit into Jesus Christ, thus becoming a part of His body. The water cannot do that for you. Peace to you, g3ills |
||||||
2 | EXPLAIM CHAPTER 3 VERSE 5 | John | junmeskie | 102779 | ||
One key Scripture reference to being "born again" or "regenerated" is John 3:5, where Jesus says, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." This verse is so important that those who say baptism is just a symbol must deny that Jesus here refers to baptism. "Born again" Christians claim the "water" is the preached word of God. But the early Christians uniformly identified this verse with baptism. Water baptism is the way, they said, that we are born again and receive new life—a fact that is supported elsewhere in Scripture (Rom. 6:3–4; Col. 2:12–13; Titus 3:5). No Church Father referred to John 3:5 as anything other than water baptism. Justin Martyr "As many as are persuaded and believe that what we (Christians) teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly, and instructed to pray and to entreat God with fasting, for the remission of their sins that are past, we pray and fast with them. Then they are brought by us where there is water and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father . . . and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit [Matt. 28:19], they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, ‘Unless you are born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:3]" (First Apology 61 A.D. 151). Irenaeus "‘And (Naaman) dipped himself . . . seven times in the Jordan’ (2 Kgs. 5:14). It was not for nothing that Naaman of old, when suffering from leprosy, was purified upon his being baptized, but (this served) as an indication to us. For as we are lepers in sin, we are made clean, by means of the sacred water and the invocation of the Lord, from our old transgressions, being spiritually regenerated as newborn babes, even as the Lord has declared: ‘Except a man be born again through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’" (Fragment 34 A.D. 190). Tertullian "No one can attain salvation without baptism, especially in view of the declaration of the Lord, who says, ‘Unless a man shall be born of water, he shall not have life’" (Baptism 12:1 A.D. 203). Hippolytus "The Father of immortality sent the immortal Son and Word into the world, who came to man in order to wash him with water and the Spirit; and he, begetting us again to incorruption of soul and body, breathed into us the Spirit of life, and endued us with an incorruptible panoply. If, therefore, man has become immortal, he will also be God. And if he is made God by water and the Holy Spirit after the regeneration of the laver he is found to be also joint-heir with Christ after the resurrection from the dead. Wherefore I preach to this effect: Come, all ye kindreds of the nations, to the immortality of the baptism" (Discourse on the Holy Theophany 8 A.D. 217). and more I believed that we should listen to the interpretations of the Early Church Fathers. I read that Polycarp taught Justin Martyr is a student of John the Evangelist It's arrogant to insist that our personal or today's ministers or pastors has a better interpretations than these early christians. God Bless |
||||||
3 | EXPLAIM CHAPTER 3 VERSE 5 | John | g3ills | 102919 | ||
junmeskie--I can appreciate your hard work and labor in the Ante-Nicene Fathers, of which I am not yet quite familair with. But I do happen to have their works. I will dig in and get back with you. I notice that Charles Spurgeon and J. Vernon McGee don't agree with you. J. Vernon McGee didn't quite agree with me either. So verse 5 may not be speaking of physical birth when it speaks of water, but I dare to say that it is speaking of water baptism as if it had something to do with salvation. I still hold that the washing has to be by the washing of water by the Word. (Eph. 5:26) That is where the cleansing comes from, the Word. From the Word I learn about the blood shed by the Word made flesh in order that my sins could be washed away. What saves me, the water baptism or the finished work of Jesus Christ, or both? I am one that believe that faith in the finished work of Christ alone is what saves me. Reason being is, that if I attach anything that I do (baptism in water) to what Jesus Christ has done ( and what He has done He claimed that the work was finished, John 19:30), then Christ must've left out something. For it is not by works of rightousness which we have done...titus 3:5a, it is a gift of God not of works, lest any man should boast Eph.2:8b-9. I think that it is dangerous, no matter what centry christian we are or refer to, to add anything to the finished work of Christ. The thief on the cross next to Jesus must've missed the mark too...but the Word Himself disagrees with that. The Word we read and the Word Jesus spoke in fleshly person are no different. And there were no special provisions for any man to go to be with Jesus, and everyone else must follow something different. As you can probably see, I am very basic in my understanding of the scriptures, but I think that basic is sufficient for me to stand on. I don't call myself trying to be arrogant or anything like that. I will search through the Ante, and Post- Nicene fathers and see if my understanding is enlightened. And get back with you... it will take awhile though. Peace to you Junmeskie, g3ills. | ||||||