Results 1 - 9 of 9
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Why does God love the world (us)? | Genesis | mbooker | 59352 | ||
Hi Brother John I have been reading these posts and wondered if you wouldn't mind engaging me in a bit of dialouge. I admit up front :) that I do not have the same view as you concerning this but I want to share with you my thought process and I want to correctly understand your view. I'm also not sure if this (the forum) would be the place for us to go back and forth, but if its OK, I would appreciate your time. Abba Father Bless |
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2 | Why does God love the world (us)? | Genesis | John Reformed | 59354 | ||
Hello Melanie, Of course it's OK. John |
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3 | Why does God love the world (us)? | Genesis | mbooker | 59355 | ||
Good! :) When you say "The Reformed view sees God as exercising absolute control over all of his creation", my mind says "OK. All of God’s creation does what He wants them to do". Is my thinking incorrect? Abba Father Bless Meredith |
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4 | Why does God love the world (us)? | Genesis | John Reformed | 59356 | ||
Gee Melanie why dont you start out with a tough question? LOL You have asked a question that, at least to my limited knowledge, has not been fully answered in all of history. It is a question that deals with God's soverignty and man's responsibility. My poor little post will not begin to scratch the surface of this mystery, but perhaps it will help us both to get an inkling of His eternal plan. OK. What does the Word say. Acts 4:27-28 "For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur." Did God plan the crucifixtion? Yes. Did He actually cause it to happen? Yes. Were those who crucified the Lord of Glory forced by God to do so? No. Was God the author of sin? No. Through out the Bible God is dipicted as being the All-Powerfull Lord of creation. Nothing can stop Him and His will will be done. Everything that He does is holy and perfect. "I believe that God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass; yet thereby neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence done to the will of the creature; and trusting in the decree of God, I who am called according to His purpose, I may be assured that all things will work together for my good." (B.B. Warfield) Where shoukd we go from here, Sister Melanie? John |
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5 | Why does God love the world (us)? | Genesis | mbooker | 59395 | ||
Good Morning Brother John! So, my first question wasn’t hard enough huh? :) OK, I believe I understand where you are coming from so far. As for Acts 4:27-28, did God predestine Jesus’ dying (the lamb that was slain from the foundation of the world Rev 13:8) because: 1. He predestined Adam and Eve to disobey, thus the need for Jesus’ sacrifice or 2. He already knew from the beginning that Adam and Eve would disobey His commandment When you say, ‘His will will be done’, I think back to the beginning. In the Garden of Eden when God "commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die", I would say that it was God’s will that Adam eat freely, except for the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. When "the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat", I would say they were going against what God told them i.e. going against His will. Adam and Eve had the ability to go against God’s commandment/will and they did. But they also suffered the consequences of going against Him. And in spite of their disobedience, God was ready with a plan (Jesus) to redeem man. I think of what Jesus said about Jerusalem: "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones God's messengers! How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her wings, but you wouldn't let me." Luke 13:34 God told Moses "Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring me an offering: of every man that giveth it willingly with his heart ye shall take my offering." Exodus 25:2 I guess the best way I can express my view is this God wills for us to come to Him with a willing heart (whosoever will, let him come). At this point, I believe if we are not willing, He won’t override our will and control us to the point that we will come. Hope I wasn't confussing in my reply... :) Abba Father Bless Meredith |
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6 | Why does God love the world (us)? | Genesis | John Reformed | 59398 | ||
Good Morning Melanie, Before we leap back to Genesis, we probably should cover Acts 4. Acts 4:27-28 "For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur. This verse is not complicated. It states that all these wicked sinners were gathered together in Jerusalem and they were enemies of Christ. It also says that it was God who had predestined them to be there to do exactly what He intended them to do. The question is: if God is not the author of sin and He does not tempt men to sin, then, is the Bible contradicting itself? No. Of course not. Perhaps the story of Joseph and his brothers might shed some light on our apparent contradiction. Josephs brothers were intent upon getting rid of him. Their initial plan was to murder him but God used Benjamin to change their minds. In stead they sold him into slavery and the rest is history. It was God's plan all along to bless His people. Gen 50:20 "As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive." You wrote: did God predestine Jesus’ dying (the lamb that was slain from the foundation of the world Rev 13:8) because: 1. He predestined Adam and Eve to disobey, thus the need for Jesus’ sacrifice or 2. He already knew from the beginning that Adam and Eve would disobey His commandment My answer would be No. 1 He predestined the Fall. If one believes that God is in absolute control of His creation how could it have happened otherwise? Were Adam and Eve free to obey God. Yes, they did as they chose. They meant it for evil but God meant it for good. This is a mystery that we probably will not be able to grasp on this side of Heaven. What about option No. 2, where God is seen looking down the corridors of time and seeing Adam and Eve fall into sin and align themselves against God on the side of the serpent. Could He not have changed things in such a way to prevent the Fall? Of couse He could have! "To declare that the Creator's original plan has been frustrated by sin, is to dethrone God. To suggest that God was taken by surprise in Eden and that He is now attempting to remedy an unforeseen calamity, is to degrade the Most High to the level of a finite, erring mortal. To argue that man is a free moral agent and the determiner of his own destiny, and that therefore he has the power to checkmate his Maker, is to strip God of the attribute of Omnipotence. To say that the creature has burst the bounds assigned by his Creator, and that God is now practically a helpless Spectator before the sin and suffering entailed by Adam's fall, is to repudiate the express declaration of Holy Writ, namely, "Surely the wrath of man shall praise Thee: the remainder of wrath shalt Thou restrain" (Psa. 76:10). In a word, to deny the Sovereignty of God is to enter upon a path which, if followed to its logical terminus, is to arrive at blank atheism." "The Sovereignty of the God of Scripture is absolute, irresistible, infinite. When we say that God is Sovereign we affirm His right to govern the universe which He has made for His own glory, just as He pleases. We affirm that His right is the right of the Potter over the clay, i. e., that He may mold that clay into whatsoever form He chooses, fashioning out of the same lump one vessel unto honor and another unto dishonor. We affirm that He is under no rule or law outside of His own will and nature, that God is a law unto Himself, and that He is under no obligation to give an account of His matters to any."(Arthur Pink, The Sovereignty of God) John |
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7 | Why does God love the world (us)? | Genesis | mbooker | 59408 | ||
Hi Brother John OK, I think I see where you are coming from but let me personalize it. 1. God predestined the Fall 2. If I sin/fall, God has predestined for me to sin/fall 3. While I sin for evil reasons, God however predestined me to sin for His end purpose Maybe I’m simplifying it, but what I seek to do is get understand of biblical principles then apply them to myself. And you may be right. Maybe we won’t fully understanding it this side of heaven but 1 Cor 2:15-16 caught my attention one day and propels me to search out and seek knowledge and understanding of my Father’s heart. “But the spiritual man tries all things [he examines, investigates, inquires into, questions, and discerns all things], yet is himself to be put on trial and judged by no one [he can read the meaning of everything, but no one can properly discern or appraise or get an insight into him]. For who has known or understood the mind (the counsels and purposes) of the Lord so as to guide and instruct Him and give Him knowledge? But we have the mind of Christ (the Messiah) and do hold the thoughts (feelings and purposes) of His heart” Abba Father bless… Meredith |
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8 | Why does God love the world (us)? | Genesis | Hank | 59414 | ||
Hello, Meredith. Being, as I am, a simple man with an honest but unsophisticated approach to semantics, it often occurs to me that more frequently perhaps than we realize, some of our problems with misunderstanding one another, especially in the areas of complex concepts such as predestination, lie in the usage of words such as this without having a clear, firm grasp of their exact meaning. Now this is not to accuse you of this practice -- not in the least -- but rather to ask you, and others who would care to, to define with as much precision as you can muster what you mean when you use the word predestination and, perhaps, its close cousin, the word election. And of course I would add the sine qua non that these definitions, to be valid, ought indeed to be in harmony with the contexts in which Scripture uses these words. --Hank | ||||||
9 | Why does God love the world (us)? | Genesis | mbooker | 59418 | ||
Hi Hank :) To be honest, I am not clear on all the ins and outs of predestination and election. In this post, I was expressing to John what I understood him to be saying. I was not saying I agreed with what I stated in the post, only that that was what I understood him to be saying. btw, I'm simple and unsophistcated too :). I'm just seeking to rightly understand scripture in my own simply way then live out scripture in my life so that I can be a living espistle. Abba Father bless you and keep you... Meredith |
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