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|Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes
Author: stokeyhk Ordered by Date
|1||What's Jesus' position?||1 Cor 15:27||stokeyhk||56242|
|To Tim Moran and Hank:
Yes, Hank, the Living Bible is "a loose paraphrase." I didn't choose it as an example of a modern translation. Rather to show that a translator can say something that the original writer "did not mean to say."
How do you feel about the New English Bible that uses "Jehovah" six times and renders John 1:1 this way: "What God was, the Word was"?
Or the New Testament in an Improved Version of 1808, which renders John 1:1 as: "the Word was a god." (See John 6:70; 9:17; Acts 28:6)
Philip B. Harner said in the Journal of Biblical Literature, 1973, pp. 85, 87, "Perhaps the clause could be translated, 'the Word had the same nature as God.'" That is, Jesus has "divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4, KJV)
That the Living Bible "does better than the New World Translation" is just your opinion.
However, Edgar J. Goodspeed said: "It exhibits a vast array of sound serious learning, as I can testify."
The Differentiator of April 1952, pp.52-7 said: "The translation is evidently the work of skilled and clever scholars."
Tim, The Andover Newton Quarterly said: "The New Testament translation was made by a committee whose membership has never been revealed-a committee that possessed an unusual competence in Greek." The committee asked to remain anonymous, since they were not seeking prominence. (John 5:41)
|2||What's Jesus' position?||1 Cor 15:27||stokeyhk||56241|
|Hi, Ray. I already believe that "God is true and that Jesus and the Father are" one. (John 10:30, 36; 17:20-22) Also, as you quote, I believe that "the head of the Christ is God" and Jesus "will be subjected" to God. (1 Corinthians 11:3; 15:27)
But do you believe genuine Christians should 'make known or confess God's name,' Jehovah? (Psalm 83:18; John 17:26, KJV; Hebrews 13:15, NIV)
Has the NKJV removed God's name from Psalm 83:18?
|3||What's Jesus' position?||1 Cor 15:27||stokeyhk||56232|
|How does "From Myself I do nothing," "My Father taught me" and "submissive" equate with "equal in position"? (John 20:17)
|4||What's Jesus' position?||1 Cor 15:27||stokeyhk||56229|
|Hello, Hank. Of course "modern" does not mean "all" translations. It means modern ones. As you may know, Jehovah's Witnesses have only been using the New World Translation of the Greek Scriptures since 1950, and the complete one since 1961. So much of the understanding was gained from other older translations. Further, Jehovah's Witnesses have the rights to print the KJV, the ASV and Byington's Bible.
1) Notice this comment from the preface of the Living Bible: "Whenever the author's exact words are not translated from the original languages, there is a possibility that the translator, however honest, may be giving the English reader something that the original writer did not mean to say."
2) The American Standard Version of 1901 used the name Jehovah almost 7,000 times. However, its successor, the Revised Standard Version of 1952 completely removed it. Why? They cited Jewish tradition. (Matthew 15:6) However, Psalm 83:18 clearly reveals God's will: "That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the Most High over all the earth." (Psalm 83:18; Matthew 6:9; John 12:28; 17:26, KJV)
3) Reasoning from the Scriptures, published by Jehovah's Witnesses, uses 28 different Bible translations. If you have been reading my posts, you'll see that I rarely used the New World Translation.
|5||What's Jesus' position?||1 Cor 15:27||stokeyhk||56104|
|How ya doing, Steve. You seem to be the only one who wants to talk to me now! You know, those modern translations that you use'll be the death of you. What is ESV anyway?
1) As you may know, the Greek word rendered worship is "proskyneo." Strong says this word means: "to fawn or crouch to, i.e. (lit. or fig.) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore)."
a) "Jesus said to him: 'Go away, Satan! For it is written, "It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service."'"
b) Jesus said: "The true worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for, indeed, the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him."
From these two verses, we can see that Jesus taught us to render exclusive worship to his Father.
"Proskyneo" is rendered as "worship," but not exclusively so. For example: the NIV renders it "fall down" in Revelation 3:9, and "fell on his knees before him" in Matthew 18:26. Why? Context! Whereas the KJV renders them as "worship" and "worshipped."
What about in the case of Jesus? Should it be rendered as "worship" or as "fall down"? Consider Mark 15:19. Here the KJV renders it as "worshipped" regarding what the soldiers did to Jesus. However, the NIV renders it as "falling on their knees, they paid homage to him." Why? Context again! They clearly did not view Jesus as God or as a deity.
As "bow before" (AT), 'pay homage' (NEB) and 'do obeisence' (NWT) are in harmony with the Greek, with Jesus' comments at Matthew 4:10 and John 4:23, and the angels comments at Revelation 22:9, these individuals who 'performed proskyneo' to Jesus were doing so because they recognized Jesus as God's representative and as "the Son of God." (Matthew 14:32, 33)
c) It was angels, not humans, who, as the New English Bible says, 'paid homage' to Jesus in Hebrews 1:6.
2) As you rightly quoted, Isaiah said he heard Jehovah speak these words: "Whom shall I [Jehovah] send, and who will go for us [Jehovah and Jesus, John 12:39-41]?" So Isaiah heard Jehovah say, "us." Isaiah also "got to see [in vision, Exodus 33:20] Jehovah."
Was John teaching that the Jehovah Isaiah saw was in fact the prehuman Jesus? Consider two things:
a) John 12:38 calls Jesus "the arm of Jehovah."
b) John 12:40 applies Isaiah 6:10 to Jesus showing that he was sent by Jehovah to do a preaching work. (Isaiah 61:1; Luke 4:16-21)
The "glory" that Isaiah saw was, as John 1:14 says, "the glory as of the only begotten of the Father." (Genesis 1:26; Proverbs 8:30, 31)
3) Rather than Jesus being granted "life in himself" "from eternity," Isaiah 9:6 says Jesus would be called "Everlasting Father [life-giver] after he 'was born as a child' and glorified. (John 5:26, 27; 17:2) Thus being granted to have "life in himself" to eternity based on his 'ransom as the Son of man.' (Matthew 20:28)
4) Revelation 21:2 says: "I saw the Holy City, the New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God." This, then, is focusing on the earth and "men." (Verse 3)
5) Jesus said the Queen of the South "came from the ends of the earth to listen to Solomon's wisdom." Seems like Jesus didn't view him as losing sight of anything. The apostles' quotations from the Proverbs show this, too. The expression "under the sun" refers to a life excluding God's purpose which is indeed "meaningless." (Ecclesiastes 1:2, 3) Solomon was focusing on planet earth, whereas Peter was focusing on "ungodly men." (2 Peter 3:5-7, 10, 12, 13)
|6||isaiah 65:20 ?||Bible general Archive 1||stokeyhk||55977|
|Hi, Dan. Sorry, I may have inadvertantly prevented others from giving their understanding of this verse by posting my note.
Jehovah God disciplined his people by allowing them to be besieged by the Babylonians because as Isaiah 65:2-5, 7, 11, 12, mentions they had become incorrigibly rebellious.
Now turn to Lamentations to see what happened during the siege. Jeremiah said God had: "Hurled down the splendour of Israel from heaven to earth." He had "brought her kingdom and its princes down to the ground in dishonor." (Lamentations 2:1-3) Then verse 21 says: "Young and old lie together in the dust of the streets." Further, "With their own hands compassionate women have cooked their own children." (Lamentations 2:20; 4:10; Deuteronomy 28:53-57)
So Isaiah promised in 'newly created Jerusalem' "never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years." (Isaiah 65:20a)
Notice Jehovah says: "Be glad and rejoice FOREVER in what I create, for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight." (Isaiah 65:18) Romans 10:20 and Revelation 21:1-5 show this applies today. (Isaiah 65:1, 17) Jerusalem today is God's kingdom. (Matthew 6:10; Hebrews 12:22, 28; Revelation 21:2)
The "new heavens" refer to God's heavenly kingdom government. "Heavens" sometimes refer to governments. (Daniel 4:25, 26; Ephesians 6:12)
"The new [righteous] earth" is made up initially of "the great multitude" who survive "the great tribulation." (Revelation 7:9, 14; Psalm 96:1)
Revelation 21:1 reveals the timing. It says: "The first heaven and the first earth had passed away." This happens at the day of Jehovah when he destroys "ungodly men" also called "Armageddon" which is "the battle on the great day of God Almighty" against "the kings of the whole world." (2 Peter 3:7, 10, 13; Revelation 16:14, 16)
What about "he who dies at a hundred [who] will be thought a mere youth; [and] he who fails to reach ["the sinner who reaches," footnote] a hundred"?
Well, as you rightly reasoned, "heaven is for eternity." There are no "infants" or 'old men' in heaven, for they are "raised a spiritual body" "with immortality" no longer subject to old age and death. (Romans 5:12; 1 Corinthians 15:36, 44, 50, 53)
Revelation 21:2-4 focuses on the earth, on "men." Here there will be "no more death." So obedient mankind, forming a further part of "the new earth" together with "the righteous" and the "great multitiude" will not grow old, get sick and die anymore! (Acts 24:15; Revelation 7:9)
But what about the "sinner"? (Isaiah 65:20b)
Four verses can help us: "Those who have done evil [after their resurrection, see Romans 6:7] will rise to be condemned" because "even in the land of uprightness" the wicked "go on doing evil." (John 5:28, 29; Isaiah 26:9, 10)
What happens to these 'resurrected wicked ones'? (Acts 24:15) Isaiah 65:20 says they "will be considered accursed." Or as Revelation 20:11-15 says after "earth and sky ["the heaven," KJV] [have] fled from his presence" "the dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books [which are not opened until after Armageddon]." "If anyone's name was not written in the book of life" it would be "the second death." Compared with a 1,000 years and eternity, such ones who die "at a hundred" would "be thought a mere youth."
|7||Stokey, Are You a "Jehovah's Witness"?||John 9:24||stokeyhk||55973|
|I've already told the forum that I am. What's the name of your church, Hank?
|8||How does God lead genuine Christians?||Acts 15:6||stokeyhk||55964|
|In view of Acts chapter 15, verses 2, 6-11, 15-19, 22, 30 and chapter 16, verses 4 and 5, How does God lead the congregation?
|9||Who "inherit the earth"?||Matt 5:5||stokeyhk||55958|
|And where's that, Steve? Revelation 21:2. Incidently, I'm not saying those who go to heaven will return to the earth. "They are to rule as kings over the earth." (Revelation 5:10, AT)
"Destruction of ungodly men," "laid bare"? Yes, "this world" will be done away with, but not planet earth. "The earth remains forever." (2 Peter 3:7, 10, NIV; Ecclesiastes 1:4)
|10||What's Jesus' position?||1 Cor 15:27||stokeyhk||55952|
|I've covered Isaiah 6:1 and John 12:41 already, but, to reiterate, see Isaiah 6:8: "Who will go for US?"
You didn't read Isaiah 9:6, then?
|11||Who is Jesus Christ?||John 9:24||stokeyhk||55950|
|12||Do you yet say that Jesus was just a man||John 9:24||stokeyhk||55949|
|Jesus is a "Mighty God." (Isaiah 9:6)
"I am the First ["A, 'Firstborn.'"] and the Last, and the living one; and I became dead, but, look! I am living forever and ever." (Revelation 1:17, 18, New World Translation)
"These are the things that he says, 'the First and the Last,' who became dead and came to life [again]." (Revelation 2:8, NWT)
Does the expression, "The First and the Last" equate Jehovah with Jesus?
The context of Isaiah 41:4; 44:6; 48:12 refers to Godship. The context of Revelation 1:17, 18; 2:8 refers to resurrection.
Revelation 1:5 calls Jesus "The Firstborn from the dead." Jesus was resurrected by Jehovah. (Romans 8:11) However, Jesus has "the keys of death and Hades" so others will be resurrected by Jesus, making him the first and the last resurrected by Jehovah. (John 11:25)
So, of course it doesn't equate Jehovah with Jesus whom Jesus called "my God" three times and referrred to himself as "the beginning of the creation by God" who "created all things." Yes, those in heaven "worshiped God" saying "Praise Jah, you people!" (Revelation 3:12, 14; 4:8, 11; 7:11, 12; 11:16, 17; 19:1-6)
We've heard it so many times before!
Oh, by the way, surprisingly, the Good News Bible renders Acts 20:28 this way: "Through the death of his own Son."
|13||Who is Jesus Christ?||John 9:24||stokeyhk||55943|
|BradK, The point is Jesus is not referred to as both God and Savior in Titus! Paul refers to 2 Saviors:
1) Titus 1:3; 2:10; 3:4: "Our Savior, God."
2) Titus 1:4; 2:13; 3:6: "God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior."
Remember Acts 13:23: "God has brought to Israel a savior, Jesus."
|14||What's Jesus' position?||1 Cor 15:27||stokeyhk||55892|
|Isn't it a sweeping statement to say, 'When was this authority granted? Answer: In eternity"?
John 17:2 says: "You granted him authority over all people." If he'd had this authority "in eternity," would he need to be "granted" it?
"To us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he WILL BE called ["his (composite) name shall be called," KJV] Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, EVERLASTING FATHER, Prince of Peace." "The very zeal of Jehovah of armies will do this." (Isaiah 9:6, 7) After Jesus had been born as a "child" and after he had received "his government." (1 Corinthians 15:23, 50)
|15||Do you yet say that Jesus was just a man||John 9:24||stokeyhk||55890|
|Daniel 10:13 was written before Jesus came to earth and before he received "all authority in heaven and on earth."
Daniel 12:1 during "the time of the end" calls him "the great prince." (Isaiah 9:6) Further, during the time of the end, Michael has angels: "Michael and HIS angels." 2 Thessalonians 1:7 says: "The Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with HIS powerful angels." This links with the unprecendented "time of distress" of Daniel 12:1. Of course, as I mentioned in Revelation 19:16, it would be easy for Michael to be stronger than all earthly kings since the superhuman Satan and his angels were "not strong enough" to defeat him.
We can hardly compare Michael's 'not daring condemn the devil with insulting words regarding a dispute' with "Go away Satan!" who wanted Jesus to worship him!
"The Lord himself will come down from heaven:
1) with a loud command,
2) with the voice of an archangel and
3) with the trumpet call of God."
So, the voice expressing Jesus' "loud command" should logically be described by a word that would not diminish or detract from someone who has "all authority in heaven and on earth." It would be like describing the President as 'commanding' with the voice of a Vice-President.
|16||Who is Jesus Christ?||John 9:24||stokeyhk||55883|
|1. Matthew 4:10; John 8:54; Matthew 22:41-45; Psalm 110:1; Philippians 2:9-11.
2. You say plural is "more than 2." The American Journal of Semitic Languages and Literatures says Elohim is "almost invariably construed with a singular verbal predicate, and takes a singular adjectival attribute." It denotes "greatness and majesty, being equal to The Great God."
3. Which translation of Titus 2:13 agrees with "God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior"? (Titus 1:4) You say the NIV "correctly renders Titus 2:13" and "either the translators did not know or deliberately ignored a principle of Greek grammar." Why, then, does the NIV render the same principle as "our God and the Lord Jesus Christ" and relegate "God and Lord, Jesus Christ" to a footnote, but not do the same in Titus 2:13?
The Greek Testament states that "of the great God and of the Savior" "satisfies all the grammatical requirements of the sentence: that it is both structurally and contextually more probable, and more agreeable to the Apostle's way of writing."
|17||Do you yet say that Jesus was just a man||John 9:24||stokeyhk||55877|
|Come on, Steve, you know I'm not being deceptive. The definition of the Greek word is from a Greek dictionary-Strong; the meaning of the English word from an English dictionary.
|18||Who "inherit the earth"?||Matt 5:5||stokeyhk||55866|
|If all Jesus' followers go to heaven, Who are the 'gentle, meek, mild, patient, and long-suffering' that Jesus said would "inherit the earth"?
'EVERYONE that believes in Jesus has eternal life.' (John 3:16)
|19||isaiah 65:20 ?||Bible general Archive 1||stokeyhk||55735|
|Dan. Have you asked Jehovah's Witnesses? They released the book "Isaiah's Prophecy-Light For All Mankind" in 2001, which includes a verse-by-verse explanation of Isaiah chapter 65.
If you would like me to explain it, let me know.
|20||What's Jesus' position?||1 Cor 15:27||stokeyhk||55732|
|Steve, John 5:26 says: "[The Father] has granted the Son to have life in himself." Also, John 17:2 says: "[The Father] granted him [God's Son] authority over all people that he might give eternal life." (1 John 5:11)
So God can delegate authority to give eternal life to others, and has done so to his firstborn Son.
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