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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Why does Satan believe he can win? | Bible general Archive 3 | Ocelot | 166910 | ||
Doc, correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t you pushing a denominational bias here? Namely Calvinism? I believe the rules are quite specific about that. Ocelot |
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2 | Why does Satan believe he can win? | Bible general Archive 3 | DocTrinsograce | 166911 | ||
Dear Ocelot, No, there is no mention of Calvinism. The doctrine of the Sovereignty of God is not a Calvinistic distinction. Furthermore, the Sovereignty of God is not a denominational distinctive. Had it been, I would have so stated that fact, rather than obviscate the origins of my perspective as is the manner of some. In Him, Doc |
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3 | Why does Satan believe he can win? | Bible general Archive 3 | Ocelot | 166916 | ||
Dear Doc, I apologize for the false accusation. Please forgive my obfuscation, as I did not mean such. Let me state my position plainly. I do not believe God predestined sin. I do not believe that God, in allowing His creations to commit sin failed to be sovereign. If an earthly father has the ability to force his will on his children, but allows them to make their own choices because he loves them, it does not detract from his ability to control them. In the same way, I believe God, setting aside His sovereignty so to speak, and allowing His creations to make poor choices that lead to sin and ultimately to death, does not detract from His sovereignty. Because He CAN control His creation does not mean that He WILL control His creation. “God is Love” 1 John 4:16. Love is not a characteristic possessed by God, but rather it is His primary characteristic. The verse does not say “God is loving” but “God IS LOVE”. Those are my beliefs in the matter. I realize you may not agree. You don’t have to agree. That’s the beauty of freedom of choice. : ) Ezekiel 33:11 "Say to them, 'As I live!' declares the Lord GOD, 'I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn back, turn back from your evil ways! Why then will you die, O house of Israel?' Doc, I do appreciate your input in this matter. Ocelot |
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4 | Why does Satan believe he can win? | Bible general Archive 3 | DocTrinsograce | 166974 | ||
Dear Ocelot, I understand your consternation. Theodicy is, by no means, a simple topic. However, asserting one attribute of God in order to explain away another attribute simply doesn't wash. This is one of the reasons that systematic theologies seek to carefully balance the truths of Scripture in such a way that we do not neglect one truth by letting it overshadow or displace another. (Theology proper is the study of the attributes of God as He has revealed Himself in the Word.) You are correct that our God is loving. Not only are we told that He is loving, He demonstrates it clearly in the Incarnation, death, resurrection, and glorification of His Son. This also manifests His mercy, another of His attributes. God's omniscience, wisdom, faithfulness, goodness, love, mercy, holiness, peace, righteousness, jealousy, wrath, will, freedom, omnipotence, perfection, blessedness, beauty, and glory are the "communicable" attributes carefully explained to us in the Word. However, Ocelot, we must never construe that these attributes are every conflicted in any way. On the contrary, God is always wholly and completely what He is. When He extends mercy, His justice is appeased. When He is jealous, His righteousness is not compromised. When He pours out His wrath, He does not cease to be a God of love. Indeed, we can describe Him accurately by combining attributes in different ways as we meditate on our wonderful Lord. He is perfectly free and freely perfect; jealously loving and lovingly jealous; righteously wise and wisely righteous; mercifully wrathful, and wrathfully merciful; etc. etc. Furthermore, God cannot be other than what He is. He cannot be different than His nature. He cannot cease His truthfulness. He cannot cease His holiness. He cannot cease His justice. He cannot cease His love. Etc. Etc. Nor can He, Ocelot, cease His Sovereignty. Since He is perfect, He would never choose to be otherwise, even if He could change in any way. As N. T. Wright put it in his commentary on Colossians, "There is no sphere of existence over which Jesus is not sovereign, in virtue of His role both in creation (1:16-17) and in reconciliation (1:18-20). There can be no dualistic division between some areas which He rules and others which He does not." God is sovereign over the entire universe (Psalm 103:19; Romans 8:28; Ephesians 1:11). God is sovereign over all of nature (Psalm 135:6-7; Matthew 5:45; 6:25-30). God is sovereign over the angels, including Satan (Psalm 103:20-21; Job 1:12). God is sovereign over nations (Psalm 47:7-9; Daniel 2:20-21; 4:34-35). God is sovereign over human beings (1 Samuel 2:6-7; Galatians 1:15-16). God is sovereign over animals (Psalm 104:21-30; 1 Kings 17:4-6). God is sovereign over "accidents" (Proverbs 16:33; John 1:7; Matthew 10:29). God is sovereign over the free acts of men (Exodus 3:21; 12:25-36; Ezekiel 7:27). God is sovereign even over the sinful acts of men and Satan (2 Samuel 24:1; 1 Chronicles 21:1; Genesis 45:5; 50:20). Consequently, Ocelot, whoever teaches that God ever "sets aside His sovereignty" knows nothing of the God of the Word. Instead, he is teaching something that has its origins -- at the very best -- in the imagination of fallen men. In Him, Doc |
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5 | Why does Satan believe he can win? | Bible general Archive 3 | Ocelot | 166994 | ||
Thank you, Doc, for your insight. But what you are describing sounds to me like a god who, in your word, “decrees” that sin should exist. And that in its existence it should destroy, maim, harm, mar and twist his creation. And not stopping at that, but it should ultimately cost the life of his son. When foreseeing the outcome of sin, does God diminish His sovereignty by saying to His creation “I will not force you to remain loyal to Me. I love you, so I will allow you to choose to fill your life with pride. I would not force you to stay away from the tree that I told you not to eat of. If I force you, then love ceases to be love. But rather, when you fall, I will make a Way of redemption. It will be VERY costly. But it is because of love that I will do this.”? Can’t you here Him crying out “…I have set before you life and death…” “So choose life in order that you may live…” Deuteronomy 30:19 I believe that it was Phillip Yancey that said “The guards at a labor camp can force their prisoners to do many things. They can force them to eat human excrement, kill and bury their mother and renounce their faith. But they can NEVER force the prisoners to love them.” Love cannot be forced, or it ceases to be love. I see in what you’re telling me a god that leaves no options for his creations. He chooses the option for them. He forces them. I understand that you believe that what I’m saying is an attack on god’s character. You believe that what I am saying assails God’s sovereignty. But I see what YOU are saying as an attack on God’s character of love. We may simply have to agree to disagree and wait for heaven when we can hear the truth from God Himself. Perhaps I’m reading too much into what you’re saying. Perhaps what I’m saying seems like semantics. Perhaps. If so, then forgive my misjudgment. But I think that we should end this conversation as it’s dangerously close to being a debate. I’ll refrain from saying anymore on this topic. In Christian Love, Ocelot |
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6 | Why does Satan believe he can win? | Bible general Archive 3 | DocTrinsograce | 166997 | ||
Yes, Ocelot... God is just that holy... and sin is just that awful... it always, always, always brings judgment, suffering, and death. It is so criminal that it has an effect on every aspect of our lives. | ||||||