Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Why does Satan believe he can win? | Bible general Archive 3 | DocTrinsograce | 166844 | ||
Dear Atdcross, It's pretty presumptuous of me to attempt to account for the words of someone like John Piper, but I'll do my best. You wrote, "Amos 3:6. The calamity is with reference to judgment and not moral evil." I'm confused. I don't know of any case where God's judgment does not always involve matters of morality. You wrote, "Job 1:21; 2:10. As seen 'behind the scenes' of Job's story, it is Satan and not God who has 'taken away' and 'covered [him] with boils.'" God is sovereign. If the book of Job doesn't teach that, it doesn't teach anything. Then came to him all his brothers and sisters and all who had known him before, and ate bread with him in his house. And they showed him sympathy and comforted him for all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him. And each of them gave him a piece of money and a ring of gold. And the LORD blessed the latter days of Job more than his beginning. And he had 14,000 sheep, 6,000 camels, 1,000 yoke of oxen, and 1,000 female donkeys. (Job 42:11-12 ESV) You wrote, "Eph 1:11. Note, it does not say God 'causes all things' especially moral evil and every tragedy and sickness that occurs." This interpretation would be in keeping with the rest of Scripture. In addition, another authority, John Gill, comments on this verse, "...according to a purpose of God, which can never be frustrated; and according to the purpose of 'that God', as one of Stephens's copies reads, that is the author of all things but sin; of the works of creation and of providence, and of grace and salvation; and who works all these according to His will, just as He pleases, and according to the counsel of it, in a wise and prudent manner, in the best way that can be devised; for He is wonderful in counsel, and excellent in working; wherefore His counsel always stands, and He does all his pleasure: and hence the inheritance which the saints obtain in Christ, and are predestinated to, is sure and certain." You wrote, "Matt 10:29. It does not say God caused the sparrow to fall." If the fall of the sparrow is not subject to providence, then who does have such power? That's pretty frightening to think that there is something out there that can force God's hand! I bet if you try you can think of some Scripture passages that do assert God's control over all of nature. Here's a couple to start with Psalm 104:21-30; 1 Kings 17:4-6. You wrote, "Prov 16:33. As I see it, God may intervene in the roll of dice, however, there is no indication that his control over the affairs of men are as exhaustive and minute. As the TEV suggests, the men throwing the dice are doing so 'to learn God's will' (that is, they are in a posture of submission to God) and, therefore, 'God himself determines the answer.'" So what you are saying is that God only works in the lives of men when they are in submission to Him. Are you sure you want to stand on that doctrinal position? If you are unsatisfied with my answers, I'd commend you to the website of John Piper (www.desiringgod.org) where you can personally question his theology. If you are interested in a relatively short explanation of the orthodox doctrine of the sovereignty of God you might read A. W. Pink's "God's Sovereignty Defined." If you want to get it fully down pat, I'd encourage you to read Pink's book "The Sovereignty of God." Thank you for your questions. In Him, Doc |
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2 | Why does Satan believe he can win? | Bible general Archive 3 | Ocelot | 166910 | ||
Doc, correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t you pushing a denominational bias here? Namely Calvinism? I believe the rules are quite specific about that. Ocelot |
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3 | Why does Satan believe he can win? | Bible general Archive 3 | DocTrinsograce | 166911 | ||
Dear Ocelot, No, there is no mention of Calvinism. The doctrine of the Sovereignty of God is not a Calvinistic distinction. Furthermore, the Sovereignty of God is not a denominational distinctive. Had it been, I would have so stated that fact, rather than obviscate the origins of my perspective as is the manner of some. In Him, Doc |
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4 | Why does Satan believe he can win? | Bible general Archive 3 | Ocelot | 166916 | ||
Dear Doc, I apologize for the false accusation. Please forgive my obfuscation, as I did not mean such. Let me state my position plainly. I do not believe God predestined sin. I do not believe that God, in allowing His creations to commit sin failed to be sovereign. If an earthly father has the ability to force his will on his children, but allows them to make their own choices because he loves them, it does not detract from his ability to control them. In the same way, I believe God, setting aside His sovereignty so to speak, and allowing His creations to make poor choices that lead to sin and ultimately to death, does not detract from His sovereignty. Because He CAN control His creation does not mean that He WILL control His creation. “God is Love” 1 John 4:16. Love is not a characteristic possessed by God, but rather it is His primary characteristic. The verse does not say “God is loving” but “God IS LOVE”. Those are my beliefs in the matter. I realize you may not agree. You don’t have to agree. That’s the beauty of freedom of choice. : ) Ezekiel 33:11 "Say to them, 'As I live!' declares the Lord GOD, 'I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn back, turn back from your evil ways! Why then will you die, O house of Israel?' Doc, I do appreciate your input in this matter. Ocelot |
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5 | Why does Satan believe he can win? | Bible general Archive 3 | DocTrinsograce | 166974 | ||
Dear Ocelot, I understand your consternation. Theodicy is, by no means, a simple topic. However, asserting one attribute of God in order to explain away another attribute simply doesn't wash. This is one of the reasons that systematic theologies seek to carefully balance the truths of Scripture in such a way that we do not neglect one truth by letting it overshadow or displace another. (Theology proper is the study of the attributes of God as He has revealed Himself in the Word.) You are correct that our God is loving. Not only are we told that He is loving, He demonstrates it clearly in the Incarnation, death, resurrection, and glorification of His Son. This also manifests His mercy, another of His attributes. God's omniscience, wisdom, faithfulness, goodness, love, mercy, holiness, peace, righteousness, jealousy, wrath, will, freedom, omnipotence, perfection, blessedness, beauty, and glory are the "communicable" attributes carefully explained to us in the Word. However, Ocelot, we must never construe that these attributes are every conflicted in any way. On the contrary, God is always wholly and completely what He is. When He extends mercy, His justice is appeased. When He is jealous, His righteousness is not compromised. When He pours out His wrath, He does not cease to be a God of love. Indeed, we can describe Him accurately by combining attributes in different ways as we meditate on our wonderful Lord. He is perfectly free and freely perfect; jealously loving and lovingly jealous; righteously wise and wisely righteous; mercifully wrathful, and wrathfully merciful; etc. etc. Furthermore, God cannot be other than what He is. He cannot be different than His nature. He cannot cease His truthfulness. He cannot cease His holiness. He cannot cease His justice. He cannot cease His love. Etc. Etc. Nor can He, Ocelot, cease His Sovereignty. Since He is perfect, He would never choose to be otherwise, even if He could change in any way. As N. T. Wright put it in his commentary on Colossians, "There is no sphere of existence over which Jesus is not sovereign, in virtue of His role both in creation (1:16-17) and in reconciliation (1:18-20). There can be no dualistic division between some areas which He rules and others which He does not." God is sovereign over the entire universe (Psalm 103:19; Romans 8:28; Ephesians 1:11). God is sovereign over all of nature (Psalm 135:6-7; Matthew 5:45; 6:25-30). God is sovereign over the angels, including Satan (Psalm 103:20-21; Job 1:12). God is sovereign over nations (Psalm 47:7-9; Daniel 2:20-21; 4:34-35). God is sovereign over human beings (1 Samuel 2:6-7; Galatians 1:15-16). God is sovereign over animals (Psalm 104:21-30; 1 Kings 17:4-6). God is sovereign over "accidents" (Proverbs 16:33; John 1:7; Matthew 10:29). God is sovereign over the free acts of men (Exodus 3:21; 12:25-36; Ezekiel 7:27). God is sovereign even over the sinful acts of men and Satan (2 Samuel 24:1; 1 Chronicles 21:1; Genesis 45:5; 50:20). Consequently, Ocelot, whoever teaches that God ever "sets aside His sovereignty" knows nothing of the God of the Word. Instead, he is teaching something that has its origins -- at the very best -- in the imagination of fallen men. In Him, Doc |
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6 | Why does Satan believe he can win? | Bible general Archive 3 | Ocelot | 166994 | ||
Thank you, Doc, for your insight. But what you are describing sounds to me like a god who, in your word, “decrees” that sin should exist. And that in its existence it should destroy, maim, harm, mar and twist his creation. And not stopping at that, but it should ultimately cost the life of his son. When foreseeing the outcome of sin, does God diminish His sovereignty by saying to His creation “I will not force you to remain loyal to Me. I love you, so I will allow you to choose to fill your life with pride. I would not force you to stay away from the tree that I told you not to eat of. If I force you, then love ceases to be love. But rather, when you fall, I will make a Way of redemption. It will be VERY costly. But it is because of love that I will do this.”? Can’t you here Him crying out “…I have set before you life and death…” “So choose life in order that you may live…” Deuteronomy 30:19 I believe that it was Phillip Yancey that said “The guards at a labor camp can force their prisoners to do many things. They can force them to eat human excrement, kill and bury their mother and renounce their faith. But they can NEVER force the prisoners to love them.” Love cannot be forced, or it ceases to be love. I see in what you’re telling me a god that leaves no options for his creations. He chooses the option for them. He forces them. I understand that you believe that what I’m saying is an attack on god’s character. You believe that what I am saying assails God’s sovereignty. But I see what YOU are saying as an attack on God’s character of love. We may simply have to agree to disagree and wait for heaven when we can hear the truth from God Himself. Perhaps I’m reading too much into what you’re saying. Perhaps what I’m saying seems like semantics. Perhaps. If so, then forgive my misjudgment. But I think that we should end this conversation as it’s dangerously close to being a debate. I’ll refrain from saying anymore on this topic. In Christian Love, Ocelot |
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7 | Why does Satan believe he can win? | Bible general Archive 3 | DocTrinsograce | 166997 | ||
Yes, Ocelot... God is just that holy... and sin is just that awful... it always, always, always brings judgment, suffering, and death. It is so criminal that it has an effect on every aspect of our lives. | ||||||