Results 1 - 8 of 8
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Why does Satan believe he can win? | Bible general Archive 3 | DocTrinsograce | 166824 | ||
"God 'works all things after the counsel of his will' (Ephesians 1:11).This 'all things' includes the fall of sparrows (Matthew 10:29), the rolling of dice (Proverbs 16:33), the slaughter of his people (Psalm 44:11), the decisions of kings (Proverbs 21:1), the failing of sight (Exodus 4:11), the sickness of children (2 Samuel 12:15), the loss and gain of money (1 Samuel 2:7), the suffering of saints (1 Peter 4:19), the completion of travel plans (James 4:15), the persecution of Christians (Hebrews 12:4-7), the repentance of souls (2 Timothy 2:25), the gift of faith (Philippians 1:29), the pursuit of holiness (Philippians 3:12-13), the growth of believers (Hebrews 6:3), the giving of life and the taking in death (1 Samuel 2:6), and the crucifixion of his Son (Acts 4:27-28). "From the smallest thing to the greatest thing, good and evil, happy and sad, pagan and Christian, pain and pleasure - God governs them all for his wise and just and good purposes (Isaiah 46:10). Lest we miss the point, the Bible speaks most clearly to this in the most painful situations. Amos asks, in time of disaster, 'If a calamity occurs in a city has not the LORD done it?' (Amos 3:6). After losing all ten of his children in the collapse of his son's house, Job says, 'The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away. Blessed be the name of the LORD' (Job 1:21). After being covered with boils he says, 'Shall we indeed accept good from God and not accept adversity?' (Job 2:10). "Oh, yes, Satan is real and active and involved in this world of woe! In fact Job 2:7 says, 'Satan went out from the presence of the LORD and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head.' Satan struck him. But Job did not get comfort from looking at secondary causes. He got comfort from looking at the ultimate cause. 'Shall we not accept adversity from God?' And the author of the book agrees with Job when he says that Job's brothers and sisters 'consoled him and comforted him for all the adversities that the LORD had brought on him' (Job 42:11). Then James underlines God's purposeful goodness in Job's misery: 'You have heard of the endurance of Job and have seen the outcome of the Lord's dealings, that the Lord is full of compassion and is merciful' (James 5:11). Job himself concludes in prayer: 'I know that You can do all things, and that no purpose of Yours can be thwarted' (Job 42:2). Yes, Satan is real, and he is terrible - and he is on a leash." --John Piper |
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2 | Why does Satan believe he can win? | Bible general Archive 3 | atdcross | 166843 | ||
Although I am not sure I understand what your point is, I do want to respond to some verses in particular. Amos 3:6. The calamity is with reference to judgment and not moral evil. Job 1:21; 2:10. As seen "behind the scenes" of Job's story, it is Satan and not God who has "taken away" and "covered [him] with boils." Eph 1:11. Note, it does not say God "causes all things" especially moral evil and every tragedy and sickness that occurs. Matt 10:29. It does not say God caused the sparrow to fall. Prov 16:33. As I see it, God may intervene in the roll of dice, however, there is no indication that his control over the affairs of men are as exhaustive and minute. As the TEV suggests, the men throwing the dice are doing so "to learn God's will" (that is, they are in a posture of submission to God) and, therefore, "God himself determines the answer." |
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3 | Why does Satan believe he can win? | Bible general Archive 3 | DocTrinsograce | 166844 | ||
Dear Atdcross, It's pretty presumptuous of me to attempt to account for the words of someone like John Piper, but I'll do my best. You wrote, "Amos 3:6. The calamity is with reference to judgment and not moral evil." I'm confused. I don't know of any case where God's judgment does not always involve matters of morality. You wrote, "Job 1:21; 2:10. As seen 'behind the scenes' of Job's story, it is Satan and not God who has 'taken away' and 'covered [him] with boils.'" God is sovereign. If the book of Job doesn't teach that, it doesn't teach anything. Then came to him all his brothers and sisters and all who had known him before, and ate bread with him in his house. And they showed him sympathy and comforted him for all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him. And each of them gave him a piece of money and a ring of gold. And the LORD blessed the latter days of Job more than his beginning. And he had 14,000 sheep, 6,000 camels, 1,000 yoke of oxen, and 1,000 female donkeys. (Job 42:11-12 ESV) You wrote, "Eph 1:11. Note, it does not say God 'causes all things' especially moral evil and every tragedy and sickness that occurs." This interpretation would be in keeping with the rest of Scripture. In addition, another authority, John Gill, comments on this verse, "...according to a purpose of God, which can never be frustrated; and according to the purpose of 'that God', as one of Stephens's copies reads, that is the author of all things but sin; of the works of creation and of providence, and of grace and salvation; and who works all these according to His will, just as He pleases, and according to the counsel of it, in a wise and prudent manner, in the best way that can be devised; for He is wonderful in counsel, and excellent in working; wherefore His counsel always stands, and He does all his pleasure: and hence the inheritance which the saints obtain in Christ, and are predestinated to, is sure and certain." You wrote, "Matt 10:29. It does not say God caused the sparrow to fall." If the fall of the sparrow is not subject to providence, then who does have such power? That's pretty frightening to think that there is something out there that can force God's hand! I bet if you try you can think of some Scripture passages that do assert God's control over all of nature. Here's a couple to start with Psalm 104:21-30; 1 Kings 17:4-6. You wrote, "Prov 16:33. As I see it, God may intervene in the roll of dice, however, there is no indication that his control over the affairs of men are as exhaustive and minute. As the TEV suggests, the men throwing the dice are doing so 'to learn God's will' (that is, they are in a posture of submission to God) and, therefore, 'God himself determines the answer.'" So what you are saying is that God only works in the lives of men when they are in submission to Him. Are you sure you want to stand on that doctrinal position? If you are unsatisfied with my answers, I'd commend you to the website of John Piper (www.desiringgod.org) where you can personally question his theology. If you are interested in a relatively short explanation of the orthodox doctrine of the sovereignty of God you might read A. W. Pink's "God's Sovereignty Defined." If you want to get it fully down pat, I'd encourage you to read Pink's book "The Sovereignty of God." Thank you for your questions. In Him, Doc |
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4 | Why does Satan believe he can win? | Bible general Archive 3 | atdcross | 166899 | ||
Good day, Doc. Amos 3:6. The evil in Amos is with reference to God executing judgment on those who have committed moral evil; it does not mean God created moral evil. “Evil” would, it seems, be better translated as “disaster” or “calamity”. I am of the impression that the story of Job is not solely or predominately to teach us that God is sovereign; that God is sovereign is never questioned in Job. In any case, the book of Job reveals to the reader that it was not God who gave Job the boils and sickness; neither did God execute the calamities against Job that caused the loss of all that he had. Eph 1:11. Are you saying my position “would be in keeping with the rest of Scripture”? Also, I’m not sure I understand what point you are trying to make with quoting Gill. Are you saying that God created/authored moral evil or sin? Matt 10:29. It’s pretty frightening to picture the hand of God just smashing a helpless, innocent bird to the ground for no reason. God does have the power to do it and if that is what he feels like doing, so be it. However, I don’t think the Bible, at least for me, give that kind of picture of God. My comment does not suggest in any way God’s hand being forced. In brief, God set in motion certain laws in nature and, it seems to me, those laws, unless God through nature intervenes to overrule the normal course nature normally takes, determine the occurrence of certain events. Ps 104:21-30 does not seem to contradict this notion. 1 Kings 17:4-6 is a good example of God overruling the natural order. Prov 16:33. Are you suggesting God doesn’t work in the lives of men submitted to His rule over them? I am merely suggesting that it is not necessary to assume by the verse cited that God’s “control over the affairs of men are as exhaustive and minute”. As for God working in the lives of those who are submitted to him, I do not think it can be denied He works on their behalf. |
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5 | Why does Satan believe he can win? | Bible general Archive 3 | DocTrinsograce | 166972 | ||
Dear atdcross, I see what you are saying regarding Amos 3:6. Yes, I concur, the evil in that passage is not the moral variety. As Piper says, "..the most painful situations..." I'd venture that he would agree. I wonder if when the Ninevites were destroyed they thought of it as evil? Regarding Ephesians 1:11, Gill would have most certainly agreed with the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith which states, "God hath decreed in Himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears His wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing His decree. (Isaiah 46:10; Ephesians 1:11; Hebrews 6:17; Romans 9:15, 18; James 1:13; 1 John 1:5; Acts 4:27, 28; John 19:11; Numbers 23:19; Ephesians 1:3-5)" (chapter 3, paragraph 1) I don't think I could express it any better. You wrote, "Matt 10:29. It’s pretty frightening to picture the hand of God just smashing a helpless, innocent bird to the ground for no reason." This is what is a logical fallacy called a "strawman fallacy." It is a rhetorical technique that caricatures an opponents argument in order to make it easier to attack. The logical response is for you to document the source of these words you've put into my mouth. As you ignored my explanation, I'll assume you have not looked at the other passages I suggested, and that my further explanation would. Your other comments simply reflect opinion, hence the use of phrases like "I think" and "it seems". I'd like to kindly, but firmly, remind you that we are here to study the Bible, not opinion. Thank you for your time. In Him, Doc |
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6 | Why does Satan believe he can win? | Bible general Archive 3 | atdcross | 166980 | ||
-----------------------------------------------------Doc, I have found that me first response was filled with grammatical mistakes and not as clear on certain points as I would like it to be so, since I am unable to edit it, I am reposting it. -------------------------------------------------- Yes, Doc, the Bible says God is sovereign and I agree with it (but I do wonder if you are getting me mixed up with someone else because I cannot find where I specifically discussed God’s sovereignty with you on this thread). I do not agree with your notion of the kind of sovereign He is since it is contrary to Biblical revelation (notice, I did not qualify my statement with, "In my opinion"). I do not need to read the LBCF since (1) as you stated, we are dealing with the Bible, and (2) since truth is found in the Bible, the LBCF is unnecessary as well as patently false leading to heretical conclusions about God and salvation (notice, again, I purposely refrained from stating "It seems" or "In my opinion"). What is important is that I do agree with the Bible (note, again for the third time, I do not qualify it with "It seems" or "In my opinion"). Agreeing with you is inconsequential (as far as my conscience is concerned) and I give no importance or value (in comparison to Biblical revelation) whatsoever to the LBCF. It has also been an unpleasant experience to read your responses and respond to them. Do not misconstrue that it is because your arguments are so impressive and weighty as to devastate any objections I may conjure up. With all due respect, discussions with you are not about the Bible since (1) you do not use the Bible but fancies of a certain theological position; (2) you argue your point by attacking the person; and (3) you use sarcasm as a "technique that caricatures an opponents argument in order to make it easier to attack". As it is not my purpose to prove my position is correct, please be advised, I am ignoring your comments from now on. -------------------------------------------------- Doc, amy further cummunication between us is ended. -------------------------------------------------- |
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7 | Why does Satan believe he can win? | Bible general Archive 3 | DocTrinsograce | 166983 | ||
Dear Atdcross, As you wish. :-) While you ignore me, when you post, could you actually cite a Scripture or two to support your assertions? It lends an air of actual *study* and *Bible* to the forum. It also would be a tiny bit more credible of an understanding that exceeds that of all the theologians of the past. Thank you! In Him, Doc PS Is this like deja vu or something? |
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8 | Why does Satan believe he can win? | Bible general Archive 3 | atdcross | 167000 | ||
"As you wish", from Princess Bride and it really translates to "I love you." Well, thank you, Doc, I love you too in Christ. |
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