Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Holy Spirit, an impersonal force? | Bible general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 82025 | ||
Bern, "Holy Spirit is constantly shown to be a power or force that the Father controls." If that is so, why is the Holy Spirit referred to as "he" and "him" in John 16:7-8 and 16:13-14? How could he, if merely an impersonal active force, bear witness John 15:26; feel hurt Isaiah 63:10; be blasphemed against Mark 3:29; say things Ezek 3:24, Acts 8:29, 10:19, 11:12, 21:11, Heb 10:15-17, Rev 2:7; desire Gal 5;17; be outraged Heb 10:29; search 1Cor 2:10; comfort Acts 9:31; love Rom 15:30; refer to himself as "me" Acts 13:2; be lied to and be God Acts 5:3-4? By the way, the Trinity is not a "triad" of three gods, but a Tri-unity of one God. Emmaus |
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2 | Holy Spirit, an impersonal force? | Bible general Archive 1 | Bern | 82148 | ||
Dear Emmaus First I would like to express my disapointment to date, everyone keeps throwing verses at me yet no one has yet explained how 1 Cor 8:6 and 1 Tim 2:5 fit in with the trinity. Many Christians seem to just read the verses that fit their beliefs and quietly ignore the difficult ones. I’ve been accused of not researching my facts and yet someone quotes 1 John 5:7!!!!! On to your post, I wish it all was that simple but there are other verses that need to be considered, at least for starters,…. Luke 1 35The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[1] the Son of God.(NIV) Matt 1 18This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit.(NIV) 2 John 3 Grace, mercy and peace from God the Father and from Jesus Christ, the Father's Son, will be with us in truth and love. (NIV) It seems clear, to me anyway, from these two verses that the Holy Spirit came upon Mary and she was with child. Luke 1:35 also discribes this as ‘the power of the Most High’ that overshadows Mary – the ‘Most High’ would be ‘Yahweh’ of the OT. Luke 1 relates ‘The Holy Spirit’ with ‘the power of the Most High’, this is a common Biblical practice of saying the same thing twice but using a different phrase – I can’t remember the technical term for this. Reading Matt 1 on its own makes the ‘person’ the Holy Spirit the Father of Jesus – it is clear – ‘she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit’. 2 John 3 tells us God the Father is the Father. ;-) With Luke 1, we see the power of the Most High (Yahweh/God the Father) overshadowed her, the Holy Spirits is God’s power, call it impersonal if you will, but because the Holy Spirit is God the Father’s power then he is the Father of Jesus. The Holy Spirit is not some entity wandering about on its own, it is the ‘power of the Most High’, it is the Fathers power. When the Holy Spirit does something it is the Father who is controling the Holyt Spirit – hence he gave it to Jesus at his Baptism, and gave it to John the Baptist from conception! Were they given the ‘person’ of the Holy Spirit. It seems simple to me, am I missing something? Matt 3:16-17 16As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. 17And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."(NIV) What is the ‘Spirit of God’? Is it different to the ‘Holy Spirit’? Did the ‘person’ Holy Spirit come upon Jesus or did the ‘power of the Most High’ come upon Jesus. I makes much more sense if it was the ‘power of the Most High’. In answer to all your quotes, the Holy Spirit is God the Fathers, when the Holy Spirit acts it is the Father acting – as Luke 1:35 demonstrates. Is there a problem with the Father giving support by a power that is His, in the Father giving encouragment by his Spirit,… Refering to the Holy Spirit as ‘He’ is only refering back to the Father – it is the Fathers Spirit. Regards Bern. |
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3 | Holy Spirit, an impersonal force? | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 82150 | ||
Greetings Bern! You wrote: "First I would like to express my disapointment to date, everyone keeps throwing verses at me yet no one has yet explained how 1 Cor 8:6 and 1 Tim 2:5 fit in with the trinity." The answer is quite simple. The doctrine does not teach that there are three Gods, so any verse which states that there is only one God is in full agreement with the doctrine of the trinity. These two verses would only be a problem if the trinity said that there were three gods. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | Holy Spirit, an impersonal force? | Bible general Archive 1 | Bern | 82152 | ||
I will spell it out for you. 1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.(NIV) 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,(NIV) 1 Cor 8:6 tells us that there is ‘one God, the Father’ could this not be plainer? Jesus is mentioned seperatly. 1 Tim 2:5 tells that there is one God and that Jesus is not that one God, Jesus is the mediatior between the one God and Man – seems clear enough. Bern |
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5 | Holy Spirit, an impersonal force? | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 82160 | ||
Greetings Bern! Thank you! Spelling always was my worst subject! ;-) As I mentioned in my last post, the doctrine of the Trinity does not teach that there are three Gods, but it does teach that there are three distinct persons within the Godhead. What is the evidence for this? The evidence consists of the verses where Jesus is called God. One which was mentioned on the forum the other day is Rom. 9:5 - "Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen." But, there are others of course. John 1:1 - "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning." Notice, that this verse affirms the very same thing that you found objectionable - that Jesus was both God and distinct from God. Or, how about the verses where it is clear in the Greek that Jesus is called God? 2 Thess. 1:12 - "We pray this so that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you, and you in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ." The last clause here is a clear construction in Greek, only one person is being mentioned - i.e. Jesus is both God and Lord. The same thing occurs in Titus 2:13 - "while we wait for the blessed hope?the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ," Or, of course, how about the classic passage of Phil. 2:5-11? How could Christ be 'equal' to God unless He was God? As Jesus Himself said in John 14:9 - "Jesus answered: 'Don?t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?" So, while it is true that there are verses which mention Jesus and the Father seperately (which does not conflict with the three distinct Persons of the Trinity), it also true that Jesus is called God, affirmed as being equal with God, mentioned as doing things that only God can do, and 'emptying' Himself of all of this to become a man during the incarnation. It does seem clear enough my friend! :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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6 | Holy Spirit, an impersonal force? | Bible general Archive 1 | Bern | 82706 | ||
If you are correct the please answer the question by 'beethoven' He quotes John 17:3 |
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7 | Holy Spirit, an impersonal force? | Bible general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 82733 | ||
Greetings Bern! How about interacting with the verses that I posted in response to your position? Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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