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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Church membership scriptural? | Heb 10:25 | DocTrinsograce | 169327 | ||
Hi, WOS... In the Historic Baptist tradition there is a notion that pastors, elders, and other ministers to the church are also "called of God" to that office. In other words, along with the qualifications you mention we would add that God has made it clear in choosing those who are to tend the flock, adding to their learning a special "unction." In Him, Doc |
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2 | Church membership scriptural? | Heb 10:25 | jlhetrick | 169330 | ||
Hi Doc, Great point. I want to tag a question on to the end of the thread here. I have been following along with interest. Is it scriptural for there to be a "vote" by the lay membership of the church regarding the decisions and overall course the church takes? I ask this for the following reasons. Having traveled somewhat, I have been a member of several churches, and have also considered myself a "member" of more than one church that didn't have official membership. What I have seen in those churches of my experience that have membership, is that the majority is the leader. That is, the function of the church has become a democracy in which the majority vote rules. I personally have seen Pastors powerless to effect the corse and powerless to make decisions regarding when and how money is spent, who will hold positions of leadership in the local church, etc., etc. Is this scriptural. If God has called someone to pastor a church, does that not mean that God has called that person to lead the church? I personally have seen major decisions made in the church that were contrary to the pastor's and the majority of the decons desired direction. Why? Because the majority of the lay-persons voted differently. This is very often an issue of popularity, or even of rebellion because long-time members are unsatified with the pastor regarding something that has nothing to do with the vote at hand. Sometimes it is a unsatisfaction regarding a personal issue and not a church matter at all. If this approach is scriptural, I will submit to it gladly, but as I currently understnd the scriptures, it is not scriptural. I find no notion of a democracy in the church body presented in the word of God. Where we do see a system of voting, it is the leadership doing so as a process of replacing the lost Judas. And then it is not a vote, but a casting of lots (which was accepted at the time as a way of determining the will of God). And then only after Peter (who we might rightly consider the pastor of this congregation) gave the criteria (without a vote) of who could be considered. (Acts 1 beginning in verse 15). Is there any other example of voting, and does it include lay-persons voting major decisions? I appreciate feedback from everyone who has something constructive to say about this. Thanks in advance, Jeff |
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3 | Church membership scriptural? | Heb 10:25 | DocTrinsograce | 169337 | ||
Dear Brother Jeff, Ecclesiology is an interesting study. Much could be written on the topic, even if we were going to limit it solely to church government. We are granted some latitude by Scripture, to implement infrastructure in an effort to apply what the Word teaches. Our conscience should be bound only by Scripture, not cultural presuppositions. I fear that our Baptist inclination to vote on every single thing is more the latter than the former. On the other hand, the early divines in Historic Baptist churches drew from the Scriptures at least the following principles: 1. Churches are to be considered local congregations. This is why we eschew denominationalism or other forms of governing bodies that might interfere with the authority of the local church. (See London Baptist Confession of Faith, chapter 26, paragraph 7) 2. A local congregation consists of elders (plural), deacons, and members. (See LBCF, 26-8) Note: You might find it interesting to read there about the required responsibilities of each. 3. Christ Himself appoints elders and they must be "chosen and called out to that office by the common suffrage of the church itself." (See LBCF, 26-9) Deacons are also "to be chosen by the common suffrage of the church, and set apart by prayer and the laying on of hands." If you read the confession, you'll see the specific Scripture passages on which these assertions are made. (Confessions are really little more than assertions drawn from Scripture and organized in a fashion useful for reference.) Voting has its roots in this idea of "common suffrage." Acts 6:1-6 gives the first account of the selection of deacons (from the Greek "to wait upon") by those for whom they would serve. If you examine the roots of the word "ordain" in Acts 14:23 you will uncover what is likely an early form of "the counting of hands" in the selection of elders. So, the short answer to your question is this: There are, indeed, Scriptural reasons for having the church as a whole vote. The church contains both wheat and tares. Even the "wheat" can be disobedient and rebellious at times. Since we lack the proper respect for authority, it should not surprise us when we see these abuses. We even lack fear for the Lord, so it is to be expected that we will not properly honor those appointed to shepherd the flock. In Him, Doc |
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4 | Church membership scriptural? | Heb 10:25 | jlhetrick | 169356 | ||
Hi Doc, Thanks for the information. I will not have time to look into this for a couple of weeks. My daughter and grandson are visiting from out of town and I will be traveling out of town myself the following week. So, I will likely not comment on this post; after having taken your advice to read through the confession again. I will probably email you after that time since the topic will be "old" on the forum by then. But I do appreciate your time and feedback. One thing I will say now, however, is that you have helped me to remember something. That is, that even when things ARE organized according to biblical principles, it doesn't mean that men won't still mess it up at times. You wrote: "Since we lack the proper respect for authority, it should not surprise us when we see these abuses". I think you've hit the nail on the head here. I'm not sure that many in the church today see the pastor, decons, and elders as having authority. I'm not speaking of everyone, but in my personal experience, it seems to be true of many. In any case, your post has helped me to consider this issue with a new perspective. Afterall, I never want to find myself in opposition to what is happening in the church; and certainly not if it is in accordance with principals of scripture. I will read the Confession as you have suggested and evaluate the scriptures that it is drawn from. I most likely will end up having a better feeling about it all after that. Again, thanks, Christ's love, Jeff |
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5 | Church membership scriptural? | Heb 10:25 | DocTrinsograce | 169357 | ||
Dear Brother Jeff, Enjoy your offspring and your springing off. :-) May the Lord bless you in both! Strange how rebellious we are! God places people in authority over us (parents, bosses, church leaders, government authorities, etc.) and then we esteem them lightly! But if God has done it, then ultimately we are rebels only toward Him! I guess it boils down to this: It is not so much how well those in authority do their job, rather it is how well we learn to walk in deference and humility. I look forward to hearing from you! In Him, Doc |
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6 | Church membership scriptural? | Heb 10:25 | lionheart | 169359 | ||
Doc, Well said my friend. When it comes down to the nitty gritty it is a heart issue and the question always remains the same. Where is our heart focused and where do we alow it to go. Love you my friend. In Christ, lionheart |
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