Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Faith a gift? | Eph 2:8 | keliy | 213076 | ||
Hi Brad, I am sorry to disagree with your answer, but I feel it is difficult to prove a point by plucking out a verse without looking at the verses that precede, or follow the thoughts we are trying to interpret. Romans 10:17 is offered as the prooftext, but looking a little closer, verse 17 is a continuation of a passage that begins in verse 13, "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Although there are many that do hear the Word yet do not believe. So,this thought goes much deeper than the simple statement so it is continued, for clarification in v. 14. "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?" Verse 15 continues with the connecting word "But" (I am in the KJV) and again, v.16 begins with "But" and verse 17 begins with "So then" -meaning the author is going to sum up the words that came beforehand. Paul is saying that the word preached is the ordinary way of gaining faith and those that believe have first heard the Word. Yes, Faith cometh by hearing. So what does Jesus have to say, since not all those who hear do actually believe? The different responses to God's Word are not dependent upon grace, for we all receive grace. So as Jesus declares "no one can come to Me unless it is granted him by the Father." (John 6:65) He further relates in the same passage: " all that the Father gives to Me will come to Me." (John 6:37) Now, both phrases have in common the words, "Come to Me" -which simply mean to believe in Him. So taken together we can learn that no one can believe in Him unless God grants it, and also everyone that God grants to believe, will believe. I am of the mind that this interpretation lines up closer to your second verse, that of Rom 12:3 According to these verses then, God grants faith, a faith that will with no doubt arise in the hearts of those to whom He has given His Son. Lord Bless, and grant us faith keliy |
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2 | Keliy, can faith be predetermined? | Eph 2:8 | Norton | 213092 | ||
If grace is a free gift from God and cannot be earned from any works or good deeds on our part, and knowing that God put us here for a purpose in his plan then how do you think God arrives at his decision on who of us he gives to His Son? Thank you for an interesting point of view. | ||||||
3 | Keliy, can faith be predetermined? | Eph 2:8 | keliy | 213094 | ||
Hi Norton, Your Question can be divided into three parts, I will do my best off the cuff and then we can discuss finer details as others join in. First you said, "If grace is a free gift..." Well, let us first define grace: Grace is enabling power sufficient for progression. Grace divine is an indispensable gift from God for development, improvement, and character expansion. Without God's grace, there are certain limitations, weaknesses, flaws, impurities, and faults (i.e. carnality) humankind cannot overcome. Therefore, it is necessary to increase in God's grace for added perfection, completeness, and flawlessness. (from: wikipedia.org) Then going to God's Word, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God" (Eph 2:8) This tells us that God empowers us to do what we are unable to do ourselves, and His motivation would be Love. I have also heard 'grace' described as getting what we do not deserve, and 'mercy' as not getting what we do deserve. (at least until we are judged by Him) As far as doing anything to earn this gift, Isaiah 64:6 tells us that all our works of righteousness are nothing but filthy rags. -So what can we sinners actually offer to a holy God, who is all powerful, and has already given to us anything that we might choose to offer Him? Second you said, "knowing that God put us here for a purpose in his plan..." I agree, so not really a question, but what is the purpose of His plan? Why did He place us here, and create the air, and food, and water here solely for our benefit? If I may suggest to you sir, it is not for our benefit but His. In the end we will be giving God the Glory. That is our final destination So, The third part, and the gajillion dollar question has to do with "his decision on who of us he gives to His Son" Well for Him to decide whom to give, means that there is ones that must be withheld. I have often pondered the answer in a parrallel question: Why DID God put that tree in the center of the garden if He knew what would happen? Or, taken a step further, why did He create satan? Why was Judas put in that place at that particular time? The answer has to be that God is sovereign. It is His plan, formulated with His wisdom. There is nothing anywhere to compare on earth, that we can squeeze into our limited consciousness. It is His design and to question His reasons is to put our wisdom against His. I tend to go on a bit, so I will stop, I have to leave for an hour. But, as an off the cuff answer, I will ask others on the Forum to chime in and invest 2 shillings for your edification. God Bless you. keliy |
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4 | Keliy, can faith be predetermined? | Eph 2:8 | Norton | 213097 | ||
Hi Keliy, Thank you for your response. I still can't agree totally with your thinking on grace. As I see it Grace is God's free gift to us for our salvation and no works ie development, character expansion etc. can be attached to it, unless of coarse I'm interperting the passage incorrectly. I do agree that we are put here for God's ultimate Glory which is probably why I'm having the problem with your thought on the meaning of grace. Thank you for your wisdom and time. PS please note the passage says "you have been" |
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5 | Keliy, can faith be predetermined? | Eph 2:8 | keliy | 213100 | ||
Norton, Please remember that we are not dealing with the original language in the verse you are referring to. There is no language that translates 100 percent into any other language. -This means You are placing your understanding at the mercy of an interpretation. "You Have Been" is one interpretation, that is all it is. For instance, the KJV renders it, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God" There are many nuances in the original Greek that can only be covered here in specifics by one who is more knowledgeable than I. But if I may suggest to you, there are moods, tenses, and genders of words that all play a part in proper interpretation. Translation is not just a science, but an art as well, because language is flexible and changes over time. For instance, what would you think, as you are called upon from another country in another time, and you are looking at a phrase such as "let's eat a hot dog" or, "care to join me in a butter burger?" I think it may increase your understanding if you were to look into hermeneutics. a good start would be to go to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeneutics I am in agreement with you on Grace. No works can be attached. These works will not survive the refiners fire, but will be burned up like hay. Thank you for your time as well. (o: !! keliy |
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6 | Keliy, can faith be predetermined? | Eph 2:8 | KcabmI4 | 213133 | ||
Hello Keliy Iam just coming across this scripture that is saying. Gal.3:23 We were kept under the law shut up unto faith which should afterwards be revealed. Is this saying? A person that is not being saved cannot be having Faith. Is it also saying to a saved person? If you are trying to live a life towards God by trying to keep laws your faith is then shut away again. We are having the choice to either be keeping of the Laws. Or we can be having Faith. But the 2 are not being compatible with each other. Faith is beleaving God for what he has said. But by keeping the laws. We are then expecting a reward. Your Brother in Jesus KcabmI4 |
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7 | Keliy, can faith be predetermined? | Eph 2:8 | keliy | 213140 | ||
Hello KcabmI4 Very Good question, but it is a little vague to me, so I can only try my best for you. I will run through some parts of your query and try to sum up at the end. Part 1, Is this saying: A person that is not being saved cannot be having Faith? -Not sure. But I do believe that the devil has faith in God, probably knowing the Bible better than us. The devil believes, as he trembles. Part 2, Is it also saying to a saved person? The Statement, made by Paul, who is saved contains "we" so I see him including himself, with his kinsmen. Part 3, If you are trying to live a life towards God by trying to keep laws your faith is then shut away again. That, is hard to answer, brother. Does a person attempt salvation through the law while maintaining a faithful relationship with God? Did he have a saving faith? What God was he trying to please by keeping the law? I am sorry to answer a question with a question, But Verse 24 says, "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. So, the law convicts us of our sin, and our need for a Savior. Part 4, We are having the choice to either be keeping of the Laws. Or we can be having Faith. Let me go to Matt 19:16-22. A young man went to Jesus asking what could he do that he may have eternal life. Jesus said, "...keep the commandments" to which the man replied I have kept these from my youth, what do I lack? Jesus said "to be perfect, sell what you have, give it to the poor, and follow me." The young man walked away sorrowful. Jesus knew the man's heart. The man's first mistake was to think that there was something he could DO to gain eternal life. Jesus answered, "If thou wilt be perfect..." So, the standard that must be met is God's standard of perfection. That is humanly impossible. There is no choice to either keep the laws Or to have faith. The law did not ever teach of gaining salvation through the law. But by the sacrifices, it was pointing to Christ, so the law was simply a servant of Christ. Verse 24 calls it "a schoolmaster." Who is a schoolmaster employed by, the school, or the students? (the students do not sign his paycheck) Weymouth New Testament translates v.23 thusly: Before this faith came, we Jews were perpetual prisoners under the Law, living under restraints and limitations in preparation for the faith which was soon to be revealed. I am not sure how to apply that verse in Galatians to our selves today, but there certainly are parallels. Many today continue to live in darkness because they love their sin and also their idols of this world. They are blinded by their pursuit of pleasure, so they attempt to shut the light out. But the sinner that opens his eyes to the light discovers his miserable condition. Then he is able to understand in his own heart that the grace of God and His mercy are the only hope. The letters of the law are signs that show us our need for forgiveness, and bring us to Christ. After that we can use the law for judging ourselves and we begin to depend upon our Savior for strength and wisdom. I hope I answered your questions well enough. Did I miss anything? I will be here if you need something more. Lord Bless, keliy |
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