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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Created "in " Christ Jesus | Eph 2:10 | Morant61 | 132095 | ||
Greetings J. Elkins! It is good to hear back from you my friend. I had forgotten about this thread. I have posted so many times on this issue already, so I'll try to limit my comments. :-) You wrote: "The baptismal measure of the HS enabled the Apostles (1) to establish the church (as prophesied, to the Jews first, then to the Gentiles); (2) to confirm with miracles that their words were from God; (3) to maintain the integrity of the church by giving to the early Christians via laying on of their hands 9 miraculous gifts of the HS (1 Cor 12; Acts 8; Acts 19) (nobody got all 9 of the gifts) -- there is no indication anyone else had the power to pass the gifts on -- Stephen had to call the Apostles to do it (Acts 8); and (4) then to write the Bible through inspiration [the perfect (complete) knowledge and prophecy of 1 Cor 13]. The Apostles died. The miraculous abilities went away. Today, we have the HS through the inspired written Word. Paul says to Timothy in II Tim 3:16-17 that the scripture is all we need. He said he had not shunned to declare the whole counsel of God (Acts 20:27)." This is simply speculation my friend. There is not a single verse that limits the Holy Spirit to the Apostles. There is not a single verse that say the gifts would cease with the complete of the canon. In fact, Acts 2:38 specifically says of the gift of the Holy Spirit: "Peter replied, 'Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.'" Where does this passage say, 'This gift is for the Apostles only until they finish writing the Bible'? ;-) The text is quite clear that it is for 'all whom the Lord our God will call'. You also wrote: "To say the baptism of the HS was for all is to read into scripture something that is not there." Isn't that exactly what Acts 2:38-39 says? Yet, when the Cornelius example doesn't fit your theology, you insist that it had to have happened other than how it actually says in Scripture. The Scripture does not say that Cornelius repented, was baptized, and then received the gift of the Holy Spirit (per your understanding of Acts 2:38). Rather, it says that he received the gift of the Holy Spirit and was then baptized in water. As I pointed out in Scritpure, no one who is not a Christian can receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. So, we can assume all we want about Cornelius, but the text is quite clear my friend. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | Created "in " Christ Jesus | Eph 2:10 | jelkins | 133032 | ||
Post 3 of 3. Tim, you say, “There is not a single verse that say the gifts would cease with the complete of the canon.” To that, I offer this: 1 Cor 13 “8Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.” I’ve learned it is acceptable to substitute “complete” for “perfect.” Now, who among us is going to say that the written New Testament is NOT complete knowledge and prophecy? For convenient reference, I’ve pasted the text here from I Cor 12 which shows the 9 spiritual gifts: “7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same[2] Spirit, 10to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.” |
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3 | Created "in " Christ Jesus | Eph 2:10 | Morant61 | 133036 | ||
Greetings Jelkins! You cite 1 Cor. 13:8-9, but the phrase 'complete of the Canon' is not used there. You interpret it to mean that, but it may not. So, it is more speculation. So, you would have us, based upon no specific Scriptural statement, to believe your speculation that the gifts of the Spirit ended in the 1st century. Yet, there is no verse that states this point. You would have us believe that only the Apostles had the 'baptismal measure of the Holy Spirit', even though Scripture never uses that phrase. You would have us believe that Cornelius received the same measure as the Apostles, but it was only a special case, even though Scripture never says that. With all due respect my friend, this entire construct is a house of cards built upon speculation. What does Scripture actually say about the gift of the Holy Spirit? Acts 10:45 - "The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles." What Cornelius received was described as the 'gift of the Holy Spirit'. The same exact phrase is used in Acts 2:38-39: "Peter replied, 'Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.'" Thus, the promise of the gift of the Holy Spirit is for all whom the Lord will call, not just for the Apostles. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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