Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Created "in " Christ Jesus | Eph 2:10 | jelkins | 130923 | ||
Mark, I opened a new topic to answer your question about the salvation of the thief on the cross. This is answering your question asking how I regard the salvation of gentiles in Acts 10:44, who received the baptism of the Holy Spirit (HS) prior to water baptism. Please read Acts 2, 10, and 11. I have to determine if Paul’s words in Eph 4:5, about the “one baptism” is talking about the Holy Spirit baptism or water baptism. Can’t be both. The HS baptism was fulfillment of a promise to the Apostles (Acts 1:4-5). Scripture tells of two occurrences of it, Acts 2 and Acts 10. Water baptism is in obedience to a command. Salvation came to the Jews first, then to the Gentiles; in each case, evidence of this salvation was manifested by the power of the HS baptism. Acts 2 and Acts 10. Before Jesus ascended, he told the 11 Apostles to wait in Jerusalem for the power. Earlier he had said he would send the Comforter to bring to their minds everything he had told them and guide them into all truth. Key: This promise is to no one but the Apostles. Peter was preaching to Cornelius’ household “words by which they would be saved.” Acts 11:14. The HS came upon the Gentiles while Peter was speaking, and because it astonished Peter and the other Jews, my conclusion is that Peter’s words which were to save did not include mention of HS baptism. As stated many times in scripture, the reason for God’s signs and wonders was to confirm his word. Now that we have perfect knowledge and prophecy in the written word of God, which was confirmed and witnessed, the need for miracles is past. (First Cor 13 says the miracles will go away when the perfect comes.) The word of His creation was confirmed by miracles; the establishment of the Law of Moses was confirmed by miracles; and the establishment His church, the kingdom, was confirmed by miracles, one of which was the HS descending on the gentiles. The reason for the HS baptism of the gentiles was to show the Jews that God’s salvation is for the gentiles also, as evidenced by this verse: “When they [the Jews] heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life." Acts 11:18 Then Peter continued preaching the word, "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" 48And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.” (Acts 10:47,48) The example of the conversion of Cornelius’ household is consistent with all other examples of conversions in Acts. Water baptism was commanded by Jesus and obedience to the command is necessary for salvation. (At risk of sounding like a broken record, I’ll quote Heb 5:9 again, “And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him…” and I’ll call to attention II John 9.) Acts 2:38, the gift of the HS comes to us after baptism in water. See also Acts 19:1-5. My conclusion is that the one baptism of Eph 4:5 is water baptism. Anyone claiming Holy Spirit baptism today will have to make their own justifications for that, including why the astonishing manifestations, as given in scripture, are not present. |
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2 | Created "in " Christ Jesus | Eph 2:10 | Morant61 | 130926 | ||
Greetings Jelkins! You wrote: "Before Jesus ascended, he told the 11 Apostles to wait in Jerusalem for the power. Earlier he had said he would send the Comforter to bring to their minds everything he had told them and guide them into all truth. Key: This promise is to no one but the Apostles." Yet, notice how the phrase 'gift of the Holy Spirit' is used in Acts. Acts 10:45 says, "The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles." Yet, Acts 2:38-39 says, "Peter replied, 'Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.'" Scripture simply doesn't support your position that the Holy Spirit was just for the Apostles. Further, you said: "Acts 2:38, the gift of the HS comes to us after baptism in water. See also Acts 19:1-5." Yet, in Acts 10, the gift of the Holy Spirit came prior to baptism in water. Apparently, water baptism is not necessary in the sense that you think. Also, you wrote: "The example of the conversion of Cornelius’ household is consistent with all other examples of conversions in Acts. Water baptism was commanded by Jesus and obedience to the command is necessary for salvation. (At risk of sounding like a broken record, I’ll quote Heb 5:9 again, “And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him…” and I’ll call to attention II John 9.)" Yet, the example of Cornelius doesn't occur in the order you profess. They were saved first, then baptized as a result of their salvation - not as a condition of their salvation. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | Created "in " Christ Jesus | Eph 2:10 | jelkins | 130974 | ||
Tim, you say "Yet, the example of Cornelius doesn't occur in the order you profess. They were saved first, then baptized as a result of their salvation - not as a condition of their salvation." Please justify your statement with scripture. Those in Cornelius' household were saved by the words Peter spoke, which included the command to be baptized in water, which to be consistent with other plain scriptures is the point at which they were saved. Based on our discussions, you must feel that you have been baptized by the Holy Spirit. Were the manifestations of your baptism the same as those recorded in Acts 2 and Acts 10/11? Contending for the Faith. J Elkins |
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4 | Created "in " Christ Jesus | Eph 2:10 | Morant61 | 130980 | ||
Greetings J. Elkins! This is a quite simple request! :-) Acts 10 makes it clear that Cornelius, and those with him, at received the gift of the Holy Spirit. John 14:15-17 says, "‘‘If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you." An unbeliever cannot receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. John is quite clear that the world does not know him, but that He dwells within believers. Therefore, Cornelius, and those with him, were already saved prior to be baptized in water. p.s. - How about addressing the rest of my points in my previous post? Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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5 | Created "in " Christ Jesus | Eph 2:10 | jelkins | 132073 | ||
Your quote is of Jesus’ words to the Apostles. In John chapters 13 through 17, John recorded what Jesus told the chosen 12 during the Passover meal they shared together, commonly known as the “last supper.” The text in Acts 10 does not say Cornelius, et al, were saved prior to water baptism. I have addressed the points mentioned in your postscript. Will post it next. |
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