Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Can there be a doctine of atonement ? | Rom 5:11 | Ken John | 113523 | ||
Rom 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. Can there be a "doctrine of atonement?" Many of our translations use "reconciliation" but Textus Receptus in the Greek uses "atonement" (katallagay') Ken |
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2 | Can there be a doctine of atonement ? | Rom 5:11 | CDBJ | 113554 | ||
Hi Ken, The word atonement KAPHER in the Hebrew in its purest meaning of the word meant to cover. Sin that were atoned for were still there but they were covered until they could be completely taken away, as it were. Examine Luke 16:19-31 Luke 16:19-31 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. When Christ came on the scene he was going to be the perfect sacrifice that would actually take those sin away. John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. Those that had died before Christ had paid the perfect price only had their sins covered until such time as God would pay the perfect price, that He required, through the person of His Son Jesus, to completely remove those sins so that the ones in paradise could go into the presents of God forever. Ephes. 4:8-10 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) Believers, since the sacrifice of Christ on the cross, go directly in the presence of God. 2 Cor. 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. The wording, present with the Lord actually means face to face. ] Have a great day, CDBJ |
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3 | Can there be a doctine of atonement ? | Rom 5:11 | Ken John | 113559 | ||
Thank you brother CDBJ for your detailed answer to my question. It has given me a better understanding of "atonement"(meaning to cover) as a doctrine of the Gospel. "Reconciliation" does not seem to fit this verse Romans 5:11 whereas it may do so elsewhere in Scripture. I love the Word of God so hunger for a clear understanding of it so please forgive me if my questions seem stupid. Blessings, Ken. | ||||||
4 | Can there be a doctine of atonement ? | Rom 5:11 | Hank | 113567 | ||
Ken John, your questions are far from stupid, brother! Theological terms can be quite confusing, so perhaps you won't think it too bold of me to post definitions of some of these terms that are closely related to atonement. First, let's put down a concise definition of ATONEMENT: The work of Christ on the cross is the means by which sinners cn be brought into a right relationship with God. ..... Christ, as Man, willingly bore the punishment of sinners in their place (Is. 53:5,6) and, as God, sufficiently paid the penalty for sin. ....... EXPIATION: The removal or cancellation of sin or guilt. Thought this is a part of the New Testament idea of atonement, this term is not an adequate translation for the word (hilasmos, Gr.) which some versions accurately translate as "propitiation" (Rom. 3:25; 1 John 2:2; 4:10) ....... IMPUTATION: This has special reference to a believer's justification, which is possible only when and because God credits or transfers, i.e., imputes, the righteousness of Christ to the trusting sinner whose sin has been transferred or imputed to Christ at His death on the cross. ...... JUSTIFICATION: The experience of a guilty sinner receiving the position of righteousness before God. Scripture is very clear that this is possible only on the basis of the individuals's personal faith in the work of Christ. ...... PROPITIATION: That which turns aside the wrath of God from the sinner. The atonement of Jesus propitiates or satisfies the just demands of the righteousness and wrath of God against sin (Rom. 3:25; 1 John 2:2; 4:10). ....... RECONCILIATION: The process of bringing together into a restored fellowship two parties who have been estranged and who are at enmity. The death of Christ made possible a restored between God and sinners by dealing with the sin which caused God's wrath toward the sinner. All who trust in the Lord Jesus Christ enjoy that restored relationship (2 Cor. 5:18-21). REGENERATION .... The act of God the Holy Spirit (John 3:5), through the instrumentality of the Word of God (1 Pet. 1:23), by which one who is spiritually dead is made alive and brought to share in the resurrection of life (Eph. 1:19-2:8) and is made a child of God (John 1:12,13). Another term for regeneration is "the new birth." Matthew 19:28 speaks of regeneration on a cosmic scale as it considers the millennial age as a time when the earth will be "born again" (cf. Rom. 8:21,22). There is a sense in which the new birth of the individual is his own early participation in the new creation (2 Cor. 5:17). ........ Ken, I send this material to you (and whoever else may be able to use it) with the hope that it will be helpful to you. I've adapted much of this material from "The Believer's Study Bible" (Nelson). --Hank | ||||||
5 | Can there be a doctine of atonement ? | Rom 5:11 | flinkywood | 113591 | ||
Hank, Both major Catholic bibles (NAB, RSVCE) use expiation in Romans 3.25. Here's a footnote to the NAB (online bible) on the choice: 8 [25] Expiation: this rendering is preferable to "propitiation," which suggests hostility on the part of God toward sinners. As Paul will be at pains to point out (Romans 5:8-10), it is humanity that is hostile to God. I lean towards expiation in this matter. Whither leanest thou? Colin |
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6 | Can there be a doctine of atonement ? | Rom 5:11 | kalos | 115719 | ||
Colin: I'm not saying I have the "one right answer" here. :-) Just saying this is how I understand it. Apparently there is hostility on the part of God toward sinners. Rom 5:1 ASV "Being therefore justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." The sinner may think he is not at war with God, but God is most certainly at war with the sinner. "*peace with God.* Not a subjective, internal sense of calm and serenity, but an external, objective reality. God has declared Himself to be at war with every human being because of man's sinful rebellion against Him and His law (Rom 5:10; compare Rom 1:18; 8:7; Ex 22:24; Deut 32:21,22; Ps 7:11, John 3:36; Eph 5:6)" (p. 1700, MacArthur Study Bible, Word Publishing, 1997). Grace and shalom, kalos |
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7 | Can there be a doctine of atonement ? | Rom 5:11 | flinkywood | 116114 | ||
Kalos, Propitiation is a turning away of wrath. Expiation is a sacrifice that wipes away sin. From the JNTC: "'Kapparah' for sin: Greek 'ilasterion' appears twice in the NT; at Heb 9.5 it means the 'mercy seat' which formed the the cover of the Ark of the Covenant in the Holy of Holies in the temple, where the cohen hagadol entered once a year, on Yom Kippur, to offer a sacrifice for the sins of the people (Lev 16)... to 'cover', 'wipe clean'. These two root meanings both express what God does when He accepts expiation for sin: He covers the sin from His sight and/or wipes or washes it away." (Pg. 349) This from the Ignatius Catholic Study Bible: "For Paul, the mercy seat typifies Christ as the living seat of God's presence and the place where atonement is maed with sacrificial blood. In view of the above, and God's love and hope for all sinners, it seems the sense is better "expiation" -- by a grace note, perhaps. Colin |
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