Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Must we be Baptized to enter Heaven | John 4:14 | Ray | 103034 | ||
Hi khuck, These verses are great companion verses and wonderful to compare. I have discussed them on this forum through the years and would love to talk about them again.:) If you get to know me you will find that I talk about capitalization a lot. For example, I would want to talk to you about why you would put in caps the word baptism and spiritual baptism. Also, I would have talked about Nicodemus and spiritual things and spiritual baptism. That is just my interest and don't let it bother you if I go overboard sometime. But for the Scriptures it is important to know if the words are talking about a Person or not. For instance, is John 4:10 talking about a Person when he mentions "living water"? You pretty much equated the Holy Spirit with Living Water in your post. Would you be open to thinking about a lower case holy spirit and living water? Would you be open to consider a lower case "spirit" for John 3:6 and 8? Would you be open to consider that there is a Spirit and also a new spirit in you when looking at Ezekiel 36:26,27? Would you be open to consider whether one could be baptized in the lower case holy spirit, when looking at Acts 11:16? From the heart, Ray |
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2 | Must we be Baptized to enter Heaven | John 4:14 | khuck | 103072 | ||
Hi Ray :) Quoting you, "For example, I would want to talk to you about why you would put in caps the word baptism and spiritual baptism. Also, I would have talked about Nicodemus and spiritual things and spiritual baptism. That is just my interest and don't let it bother you if I go overboard sometime." LOL Sometimes we all get passionate about the Word that we love so dearly, after all it gives Life :) Like Nicodemuswe we'll still find those today who are convinced of the outward miracles the Lord performs and of the history that the Word reveals, but they have not received the very thing that would make them acceptable to God's Devine Presence whereby He could receive them into the Kingdom. Not accepting God on earth, how could these pharisees be prepared to receive of the Spiritual God in heaven. Are these not one in the same God? Therefore the natural man can not be reborn of the flesh, but the spirit of a man can be renewed and must be to receive what is from God. There being many things spiritual, it would stand to reason in my heart, that this must not be just any spiritual rebirth, but the only Spirit that could regenerate a man's spirit, giving him reconcilliation to God would be God's Own Spirit of Grace. So truly the words Jesus spoke, "to be Baptized of water and spirit", was of a total rengeration of the spirit of a man. (A spiritual rebirth, if you will) If I would look at the fact that neither the words "spirit or water" are capitalized, then I look at this verse in the natural sense, and deem that Christ is telling Nicodemus that in order to be born again, that his spirit (Nicodemus') must be cleansed or washed. Therefore to be born again or to become "NEW" there must be a New baptizing with a "NEW WATER" which I believe is The Spirit of Grace, and then the old spirit must be baptized in this LIVING WATER, to be regenerated, thus one's spirit is renewed through a baptism of the spirit, that takes place through the Living Waters. (I hope that made sense) This I agree with when I use it in the context of a man and what he is and what he needs. No caps would be needed because we are only speaking in terms that a man's "spirit needs" to be "cleansed". Yet on the other hand it is by "God's Cleansing Spirit" that it takes place. Darby ***Seeing Jesus, and hearing His testimony, had produced a sense of need in the heart of Nicodemus. It is not the knowledge of grace, but it is with respect to man's condition a total change. He knows nothing of the truth, but he has seen that it is in Jesus, and he desires it. He has also at once an instinctive sense that the world will be against him; and he comes by night. The heart fears the world as soon as it has to do with God; for the world is opposed to Him. The friendship of the world is enmity against God. This sense of need made the difference in the case of Nicodemus. He had been convinced like the others. And the source of this conviction was the miracles. But Jesus stops him short; and on account of the true need felt in the heart of Nicodemus. The work of blessing was not to be wrought by teaching the old man. Man needed to be renewed in the source of his nature, without which he could not see the kingdom. The things of God are spiritually discerned; and man is carnal, he has not the Spirit. The Lord does not go beyond the kingdom-which, moreover, was not the law-for Nicodemus ought to have known something about the kingdom. But He does not begin to teach the Jews as a prophet under the law. He presents the kingdom itself; but to see it, according to His testimony, a man must be born again. But the kingdom as thus come in the carpenter's Son could not be seen without a wholly new nature, it struck no chord of man's comprehension or Jews' expectation, though testimony to it was amply given in word and work: as to entering and having a part in it there is more development as to the how. Nicodemus sees no farther than the flesh.*** Isn't God Awesome?!! -Kathy |
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3 | Must we be Baptized to enter Heaven | John 4:14 | Ray | 103116 | ||
Hi khuck, God is indeed awesome; especially when seen in considering the carpenter's Son. Thank you for the Darby quote at the end of your post here. You wrote, "Sometimes we all get passionate about the Word that we love so dearly, after all it gives Life.":) I am afraid that I even have to comment on that.:) I love the Bible, the word, just as you do. But if I speak of the Word, (Deity), I can not say that "it" gives Life. John 6:63 comes to mind, "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I speak to you are spirit and are life." I was looking at and comparing/contrasting Acts 3:15 and Acts 5:20 where they speak of the Prince (Or, Author) of life and the message of this Life. Something to think about. 1) What are your thoughts now about Living Water or living water? From the heart, Ray |
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4 | Must we be Baptized to enter Heaven | John 4:14 | khuck | 103119 | ||
Greetings Ray On the subject of Living Water vs living water I catch your drift. I understand exactly where you are coming from, and I have no qualm with it. you said in the spirit of grace or it's attributes if I am correct. Yet I still have the same thoughts... that even the Spirit of Grace is whereby we receive such attributes. :) Kathy |
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5 | Must we be Baptized to enter Heaven | John 4:14 | Ray | 103142 | ||
Hi khuchk, This is the day that the Lord has made; Let us rejoice and be glad in it. Psalm 118:24. Good morning to you. The "spirit of grace" was not a subject that I brought up but was rather from one of your commentary quotes. I would personally choose "Spirit of grace and *His attributes." John 15:26, "When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, He will bear witness of Me, and you will bear witness also, because you have been with Me from the beginning." I would speak of the Spirit of truth and the Spirit of grace. John 1:14-16, "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. John bore witness of Him, and cried out, saying, "This was He of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has a higher rank than I for He existed before me.'" 16 For of His fulness we have all received, and grace upon grace. For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ." From the heart, Ray |
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6 | Must we be Baptized to enter Heaven | John 4:14 | khuck | 103145 | ||
Hey Ray :) If this all being so then I see no disagreement in what we believe. And as I said before, the capitalizations are really not my greatest consideration when reading the Bible. Maybe I am missing the point. It feels like you are saying, POE-TAY-TOE" and I say POE-TAH-TOE" LOL! John 6:63 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the "words" that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life." Even in the verse above that you wrote, it only causes me to stand on my belief that the words are life giving. The very Godhead is Life. (IMHO) God created breathed life into man and he became a living soul. Jesus died that we may have life. And the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of life. Remind me... Why are we having this conversation again? -khuck |
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7 | Must we be Baptized to enter Heaven | John 4:14 | Ray | 103157 | ||
Hi khuck, We are having this conversation because of your post #102929 where you listed some companion verses dealing with a spiritual baptism. This spiritual baptism is the one that cleanses our hearts by faith. Acts 15:9. It has been good talking to you about these things. I am still looking for someone who is interested in exploring the existence of the holy spirit (Acts 19:2); being born of the spirit (John 3:5), filled with living water (John 4:10,14), having a new spirit within (Ezekiel 36:26), and water to drink for His chosen people (Isaiah 43:20; 44:2,3). From the heart, Ray |
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