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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Paul had problems? No one acts good? | Matt 11:28 | atdcross | 164953 | ||
Hello Doc, Out of curiosity, where elsewhere other than in this forum have I expressed my views of Romans 7? No one’s experience in particular is being considered. Paul, as I see it, is just using the first person as a literary device to get his point across, which is the contrast between life under the law (which is not reflective at all of the apostle’s experience as a believer in Christ) and life under grace or “in the new way of the Spirit” (Rom 7:6). Please note that your reference to what I write is actually a quote Coffman’s Commentary as indicated. In any case, if Rom 7 demonstrates the apostle’s experience then as a Christian he is: 1. Dead in sin, v.9. 2. Deceived, v.11. 3. Unspiritual, v.14. 4. Enslaved to sin, v.14,25. 5. Without power to do the good, v.17f. 6. Continually does evil, v.19. 7. Imprisoned by “the law of sin”, v.23. Are these descriptive of a believer? Of Paul as he describes himself? As I mentioned before, unless the persons you mentioned interpreted the Bible for “2,000 years of accumulated understanding” under the inspiration of the Spirit, I am not obligated to agree with them. They certainly cannot be right in every point as they seem to disagree with each other in many. Nor, by the way, am I required to "measure up" to them. Without argument, they may hold the better place, nevertheless, however "better", my obligation is to have a clear conscience before God not men; I am to live according to that wisdom God grants to me, however faulty or lacking others perceive it to be (although, admittedly, any actual fault or lack is not due to God's giving but to my receiving). My apologies, but I do not understand what you are requiring I “elucidate”. |
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2 | Paul had problems? No one acts good? | Matt 11:28 | DocTrinsograce | 164977 | ||
Dear Atdcross, Thank you for explaining your personal view in greater detail. This is a very unique perspective. They cause a number of questions to arise in my mind... I'll pose them to you if you don't mind: You wrote, "No one’s experience in particular is being considered. Paul, as I see it, is just using the first person as a literary device to get his point across." Is this peculiar use of the first person singular limited to chapter 7 of Romans? When Paul uses it elsewhere does he really, truly, mean himself or is he making use of this "literary device?" If elsewhere he means himself, how does one tell when he transitions from the device to the usual meaning of first person singular? Is the use of the second person plural in chapter 7 also a "literary device?" Are there any other examples in the epistolary and/or didactic genres in Scripture in which this kind of literary device is used? (Actually, it would also be interesting to see a simple example of how this literary device would aid in communication in modern contexts.) Help me to think through this literary device. In Him, Doc |
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3 | Paul had problems? No one acts good? | Matt 11:28 | atdcross | 165236 | ||
Hi Doc, I have not noticed Paul using this sort of literary device in any other epistle. However, I am not convinced that its absence in any other of his epistles warrants dismissal of its use here. Briefly, my position is taken for the following reasons: 1. If Rom 7 is the apostle’s experience as a believer, chapter 8 seems to contradict it; the experience described in either one rules out the other. For example, one cannot simultaneously live in “of flesh” (7:14) and be “led by the Spirit” (8:14) or be “sold into bondage to sin” and be “free from the law of sin and death (8:2). 2. As far as before his conversion, Paul seems not to have been conscious of being a sinner against the Law but as one who followed it in all respects (Phil 3:6; cf. Rom 10:3), therefore, he would not describe himself as one who was covetous or unable to do the good that he desired to do (7:8,18-19). 3. As far as being a believer in Messiah, it does not seem feasible that Paul would admit, on the one hand, that he is absorbed in “every kind of coveting” or is “doing the very thing I hate” (7:8,15) and, on the other hand, boldly declare that when he returns to them, it will be “in the fullness of the blessing of Christ” (15:29) or, as in another epistle, that he has lived his life with a “clear conscience before God and men” (Acts 23:1; 24:16; cf. 1 Ths 2:10; 1 Cor 11:1). My position, as in the views of others, does not answer every question that may come up to refute it but, for me, it resolves most of my questions and better upholds the message and substance of the Gospel. |
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