Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | ESV opinion poll | Ps 119:105 | Hank | 31630 | ||
Steve, to my mind there are two major considerations that should be taken into account of any English translation: (1) how transparent it is of the biblical manuscripts and (2) how clear and readable it is. Now, to the first consideration I should not speak; I should not give my opinion at all. The best that I or anyone else can do who cannot claim to know the biblical languages inside and out is to defer to the translators and to trusted scholars who do. In the case of the ESV, the translators refer to their work as being "essentially literal." Moreover, a number of scholars whose opinion I prize have endorsed this version. As for the second consideration, that of clarity and readability, I can speak with some degree of credibility, I should think, since English was my major study and through many years of reading I have developed a certain feeling for good writing. The ESV is rendered in excellent English that is clear, flowing, balanced and quite beautiful. It more nearly captures the majesty and music of the King James Bible than any other modern translation I've seen thus far. --Hank | ||||||
2 | ESV opinion poll | Ps 119:105 | srbaegon | 33682 | ||
Hank, Just to follow up on this comment--I mentioned your remarks to a Bible translation list and received this response: Quote The main concern I have with the ESV is the poor quality of its English. I am an English editor and believe that English Bibles should be written in grammatical, good quality standard English. Grammar includes following not only the syntactic rules of English but also the lexical rules of English. The ESV, like most other FE [Functional Equivalent] translations, breaks many lexical rules of English, making the translation sound like it was not written by a native speaker of English, giving the translation a foreign sound. Also there are a quite a few passages where non-English syntax is used, syntax which is borrowed by the Biblical languages. Whenever unnatural syntax or lexical combinations appear in a translation, it makes it more difficult for the users of that translation to accurately understand the meaning the translators intended them to understand. And it also reinforces the widespread stereotype that the Bible is kind of a strange book, not normal, not meant to communicate in Koine English (equivalent to Koine Greek). I'll give some specific examples to support my claims about the poor quality English in the ESV: 1 Kings 2:10 "David slept with his fathers": this is inaccurate in standard English; David did not sleep with his father. Instead, David died and was buried with his fathers. The ESV literally translates a Hebraic idiom here. It is almost never possible to literally translate an idiom from one language to another and accurately communicate the original meaning in the process." Endquote [There were other examples] I've known this gentleman long enough to know he insists common vernacular is to be preferred over beauty because the Bible is written that way (at least in the Greek). His motivation is a translation for the Cheyenne nation in Oklahoma. Steve |
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3 | ESV opinion poll | Ps 119:105 | Hank | 33688 | ||
Steve, that's interesting. Makes me wonder what your friend thinks of the KJV, NKJV, NASB, and RSV. And of two other brand new kids on the block, the Holman Christian Standard Bible (only NT currently available) and the (proposed?) forthcoming publication of TNIV. Do you suppose you could coax him into giving us his opinions on these various versions too? --Hank | ||||||
4 | ESV opinion poll | Ps 119:105 | srbaegon | 33694 | ||
Hank, The following is a message he posted to the CBMW website in reaction to their denunciation of TNIV. Quote Randy Stinson accuses the TNIV: "Another example is found in John 11:25. Jesus in the TNIV says "Anyone who believesin me will live, even though they die." Again the plural "they" is substituted for the generic "he." Not only does this convolute the personal nature of the relationship between a person and Christ, but it betrays the fact that Jesus himselfused the generic "he" even though he was speaking to a woman (Martha)." My Greek New Testament has no generic "he" in John 11:25. Where does Randy find a generic "he"? There is no generic "he" in the Greek language. Greek verbs are not inflected for gender. Let's be honest, folks! Let's not be driven by any ideology, whether it be be that of the male representation camp or feminists. Let's simply translate the Bible accurately. A concerned Bible translator myself. There are a number of linguistic inaccuracies on your CBMW website about the TNIV. One of them is confusing English grammatical number of "they" and "them" with referential number. If you would do a careful linguistic analyis of current English, you would discover that many English speakers use "they" as a generic pronoun, referentially number-indifferent, just as "they" has functioned that way in the past in English and impersonal pronouns and "they" pronouns so function in other languages. Please, please, dear brother and sisters, do not accuse your fellow Christians of things which they have not done. Let's be accurate when we speak about the Greek language of the NT. And let's be accurate when we speak about English. Let's not impose our own views of English on those who may speak a different dialect. There is no single correct way to speak English. I happen to be currently critiquing a gender-new gender-noninclusive Bible translation. By that I mean the team that is translating is dead-set against translating gender references in the Bible according to modern social movements. But even this team, due to their scholarly honesty, has to translate truly gender-inclusive referential meaning in the Greek with English which is gender-inclusive. And this is allowed for by the Colorado guidelines. The matter of he/they is not based on solid descriptive linguistic analysis. It is based on the opinions of those who speak a form of English which I was taught, also, but which has changed over the years, just as all languages change. And PLEASE do not keep accusing me or anyone else of being a willing or unaware participant in any feminist movement. You're simply wrong and falsely reading our minds and hearts, if you do that. I beg of you to remove all inaccuracies from recent posts about the TNIV. It's not a perfect translation. And for sure the ESV isn't (it is a very poor translation, with many lexical ungrammaticalities). Let's try to listen to each other, rather than practicing mind-reading and divining motives. And, most of all, let's have accuracy as our highest goal in translation, not accuracy as defined by our own ideologies (including those of Wayne Grudem) but accuracy based on the how the original biblical language really work. Let's not confuse important linguistic issues like grammatical categories with referential semantic categories. I would encourage each of you who want to criticize another English version to first absorb one or two good textbooks on linguistics and Bible translation. By doing so, there can be more genuine discussion about the issues and alot less confusing smoke. Endquote Steve |
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5 | ESV opinion poll | Ps 119:105 | Makarios | 33813 | ||
Greetings again, Steve, I most certainly disagree with the conclusions that your friend has reached, and I believe that CBMW (and Randy Stinson) is correct in their evaluation of the TNIV. One thing that your friend must realize, is that Zondervan/IBS already tried this once (in 1997), and the reaction was not all that different then from what it is today. Also, there are at least 26 Bible scholars, including J.I. Packer (editor of the ESV) and James Dobson who oppose the publication of the TNIV and cannot recommend it for use by the church (http://www.baptistpress.com). So the criticism of the TNIV is not unfounded, nor does it only come from one direction. Blessings to you and your friend, Makarios |
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