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Results from: Notes Author: Jensen Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
81 | Enter the Dragon! | Gen 3:1 | Jensen | 20521 | ||
Dear Lionstrong...Now to part two of your closing thoughts. You wrote... "...but it would not be contrary to the goodness of God if he had created Satan evil." By writing "..if he had created Satan evil." you have acknowledged that there is no proof that can be offered. For IF is a very big word. God did not create evil according to all the evidence in the Bible. So what now. We probably should not go outside the Bible to explore this point. We both agree that the Bible is true and just about the only written work that can be fully trusted by us both. So when we look for proof of what you postulate we find none. I will deny myself the opportunity to give examples of IF. So the question becomes, by defaut, was Satan created good. What proof do we have? You wrote that you did not buy the interpretation of EZK 28:15-17. You will also have to deny this... ISA 14:12 How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations! (And why did he fall from heaven? Was it because of something he chose to do, or something he was programed to do?) ISA 14:13 You said in your heart, "I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. ISA 14:14 I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High." Lionstrong you already know this. Satan wanted to put himself at the center of the universe, denying the need for his Maker. Adam tried it too! "You will not surly die." says the father of lies. Men today like to do the same thing. But we do not know more than He wrote to us, either in His word or on our hearts. His Word does not prove your point, that leaves your heart. God Bless....Jensen |
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82 | Salmon | Bible general Archive 1 | Jensen | 20513 | ||
Dear Norrie..On 10/21/01 at 9:11 pm You wrote... "Salmon was the husband of Rahab and the father of Boaz. Soloman was the one w/the 2 babies." Please provide the Scripture proof for your statement or say that there is none that you know of. Let us clear this up for Steve in Denmark. God Bless...Jensen |
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83 | The GAP theory could be true. | Gen 1:2 | Jensen | 20413 | ||
Dear CDBJ...WE Agree....:-) You wrote... "This discussion on thy doctrine of ((creation)) has gone far enough!! It is getting out of hand and I refuse to go any further because of the issues that were brought up, that have nothing to do with my original comment. In love, CDBJ" Lucifer (Satan) was good at one time. You wrote... ": Jenson, I would like to point out that I think everything that God does is good, even Lucifer was good at one point." WE agree, on a different thread, but we agree afterall. So why do you want to stop the debate on creation. I have no "technique", really, and my hearts desire since coming to the Lord a short time ago is that I have fallen in love with Creation, as a study. I have no formal education of any note in the "hard sciences" so I am pretty much sell taught. ( I mean led :)) When you and I can agree on such a basic understanding that God did not create evil, certainly we should be able to discuss creation. I am open to your points, in fact. I am willing to listen. I just took the Book literally when I first read it. If what I learned in John 3:16 was true, why would this creation story not be believed also? But please don't hang up the phone. God BLess....Jensen |
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84 | What is the "third heaven"? | Gen 1:1 | Jensen | 20409 | ||
Dear LoveIsKind3...You are correct of course.. Study is the single most important thing I, and all of us, can do. Permit me to say, that my concern is not my relationship with my Lord, but with some in His church. You have wisdom beyond my understanding, but I will grow :-) God Bless....Jensen |
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85 | Enter the Dragon! | Gen 3:1 | Jensen | 20408 | ||
Dear Lionstrong...We agree, ...again:-) You wrote... "To answer to your question, did God in fact create Satan as such; I can give the politically discrete answer of saying that the Scripture does not make that point explicit,....... Peace, Lionstrong" And peace indeed! (now to the second part of your thought...) God Bless....Jensen |
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86 | When did God create angels? | Gen 1:1 | Jensen | 20281 | ||
Dear Lionstrong...Perhaps, just perhaps.... God did create angels prior to Gen 1:1. That, for me, is thinking way outside the box. I have always agreed with the position that you hold. But, for purposes of discussion, Steve asks a good question. Ex 20:11 "For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day." What makes us think that the angels were part of the heaven creation? Angels came to the earth part of creation, could they not have come to the heaven part of creation also? Does this sound stupid? Since I have always thought of the angels as being from heaven I never considered that angels may have existed earlier than the period we call creation. The text does not specify when angels were created unless they were part of the heaven creation. Just some thoughts :-) God Bless....Jensen |
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87 | who created satan? | Gen 3:1 | Jensen | 20272 | ||
Dear LoveJoyPeace...Welcome to the Forum :)... I am having difficulty finding the Scripture that you referenced in your answer. I like your answer that "he was not created evil" and I would be missing a very strong support for my position if what you wrote is accurate. I do not have all the various Bible translations at my disposal so please tell me the Translation used as well as the Book, Chapter and verse(s) that you reference. Waitin anxiously :-) God Bless....Jensen |
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88 | Did God create evil? | Gen 3:1 | Jensen | 20269 | ||
Dear Dalprad...Thank you for your reply and I am happy to see that you are following this discussion. Your input is not to be "pardoned" but welcomed. You are correct. I was/am looking for a straight forward answer, yes or no, to my question to Lionstrong. He does argue for a "yes" but, so far has not said so. He may realize that God can not be the creator of evil. God is, by His nature, the standard of all that is good. God can not sin. Jesus was/is the sinless sacrifice. Unblemished. To create evil would be a sin by definition. Any other thoughts? God Bless....Jensen |
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89 | Enter the Dragon! | Gen 3:1 | Jensen | 20242 | ||
COMMENT...........It is not the science that we need to discuss. Please answer the question from my earlier posts. Luv ya'. God Bless....Jensen |
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90 | The GAP theory could be true. | Gen 1:2 | Jensen | 20237 | ||
Dear CDBJ...Thanks for your reply... You said that the pitch and coal were still organic "no matter how you slice it" but you miss the point of creation. Creation Ex Nihilo, "out of nothing', is what occured. We know that when the heavens and earth were created God said it was "very good" meaning that His work was just what he wanted. Did His work include diamonds, and gold, and pitch. Was the Earth "ready to go" or not? Was His work complete or not? Were all the elements present or not? Was pitch created or not? What makes you think that oil and tar were not part of the original creation? When God planted the Garden, was it from seed? Perhaps, but where did the seed come from? You would say that the seeds could only have come from earlier trees? Either you believe that God created all, or not. If you will permit I want to try to illustrate the danger, yes danger, of the "gap theory" as we look at the Gospel of John. John 19:41 At the place where Jesus was crucified, there was a garden, and in the garden a new tomb, in which no one had ever been laid. 42 Because it was the Jewish day of Preparation and since the tomb was nearby, they laid Jesus there. INSERT GAP THEORY HERE---Some of the men who followed Jesus came to the tomb that night and removed his body (small h since he is no longer God) They decided to bury the body in a secret location. They carried the body to the secret location leaving behind the grave clothes. Once they buried the body they retuned to the tomb to close the entrance with the stone they had rolled away earlier that night. But when they arrived back at the tomb they saw someone coming eventhough they were still under the cover of darkness. They ran away to their homes. JN 20:1 Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance. 2 So she came running to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one Jesus loved, and said, "They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we don't know where they have put him!" INSERT MORE GAP THEORY HERE-- Even Mary knew that there was something done to the tomb by men. Please study the science that supports your Lord's work before going on with this evolutionary thought process. I know that once you are familiar with the science you will be comfortable with the Biblical account of human origins. God Bless....Jensen |
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91 | The GAP theory could be true. | Gen 1:2 | Jensen | 20171 | ||
Dear CDBJ...I used to be where you are right now on this subject. I just want to point out that when God created the earth it was all very good, complete with gold, and silver, and coal, and pitch. The gap theory has too many gaps in it when one looks at the science. By your own admission you do not know the science. Save yourself some time. Start with the premis that the Bible is correct just as it is written. Now go to the sites you mentioned and equip yourself. Hurry Please :-) The more young earth creationists in the world the more souls can be won to Christ. God Bless....Jensen |
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92 | Enter the Dragon! | Gen 3:1 | Jensen | 20137 | ||
Dear Lionstrong...Peace indeed.. I agree again. "The heavens and everything in them were created sometime between the first and sixth day." There is no "other time" as you have said. Time is our possession as I said. You said, " ...and then you said a time different than ours." But I never wrote that. Take the time now to re-read the post and you will find that I never wrote what you said I did. So I agree, we are having a difficult time communicating. You seem to want to do battle, I want to simply offer an explanation, supported by the science, that time is relative. You said that I sound like I may believe that "spirits might show signs of aging while we wait for the resurrection of our bodies!." But I never wrote that. So again I agree with you. What I have failed to make clear is what time is itself. The science is difficult but it is on our side. It is just a matter of the math. As you may remember, math is an exact science. It is the only exact science. It does not err. Science has shown that, for example, the further you are away from a gravitational pull the faster time will appear to the observer. If you will indulge me I want to offer an illustration. We begin with an astronomer and an astronaut. The astronaut is wearing a wrist watch. The astronomer is in his observatory with his powerful telescope and also has a clock on the wall. Both time pieces read 2:00. The astronaut has blasted off from Earth and is flying thru space towards regions unknown while the astronomer is watching him through his telescope. The astronaut moves further and further away from Earth. The astronomer sees the wristwatch that the astronaut is wearing. It says 2:15. And when he turns to see the clock on his wall he notes that it reads 2:14. As the astronaut moves even further away the scientist gets bored and takes a nap. When he awakes he notes from the clock on his wall that his nap took about 3 hours. It is now 7:00. He decides to check on the astronaut. When he zooms in on the wristwatch it says 7:08. But how could this be? He decides to take a few weeks vacation. After his vacation he once again zooms in on the astronaut to see how he is doing. What he sees is the wristwatch now is spinning. The minute hand is a blur and the hour hand is going very fast indeed. 1, 2, 3, 4 hours on the wristwatch has taken just a few seconds for the scientist to observe. This is the effect of gravity on time first observed by scientists who noticed that two identical atomic clocks were reporting different times. It was just nano-seconds but there was a difference. They did further experiments and repeated them several times. Time is affected by gravity. Meanwhile, back in space, the astronaught takes out his special telescope and looks back at the scientist in his lab. He observes that the scientist is standing still and does not move. He sees that the clock on the wall seems to have stopped or greatly slowed. The astronaught takes a nap. When he awakes 4 hours later, according to his watch, he looks back at the scientist and observes that the scientist has still not moved. Both are in their own time. They both age according to how long they have lived. The astronaut will die of "old age" long before the scientist moves away from his telescope. The scientist will stand on the exact same spot while the astronaut lives a long and healthy life. This is the effect that gravity has on time. Time then is relative. It is not something static that can be measured universally. The time we are in is not the same as the time that our astronaut friend is in. We have performed and observed the experiment. Our understanding of the Laws of Nature (God) has changed because of these observations. It is not something which is in question. I hope that I have not muddled the issue further. I know that what the Bible says is true. All true. But as mere humans with diminished capacity due to the Fall, we leap to embrace the science that shows that the Bible was correct all along. Not for us, but for those who do not believe the Bible but do believe the science...it is a way to equip yourself to be prepared to give an answer for why we have hope. I use science as a witness to the power and glory of our Lord. And then my hearer is more receptive to the Gospel promise. I do not want to battle. My whole problem is my lack of ability to express my ideas clearly. I sometimes will take too much for granted. And now to the nut if you will allow me. Do you, or do you not, believe that God created evil. It is a simple question that you neglected to answer in my earlier reply. The rest of this debate about time can wait. But the meat is in the question. Please reply. God Bless....Jensen |
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93 | Mark 1:6 ? | Mark 1:6 | Jensen | 20021 | ||
Dear Brother Casiv.... As a young earth creationist, your quoting Psalm 19:1 is the way the Lord has used you to soften my heart toward you. But I'm still not going for the number thing, and I will fight this teaching with gentleness and respect. God Bless....Jensen |
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94 | Enter the Dragon! | Gen 3:1 | Jensen | 20020 | ||
Dear Lionstrong...Thanks for your reply. Oh please, I do not subsribe to the Gap Theory. My goodness!!! How did you get that. I am sorry for not being more clear. No, I do not deny Ex 20:11. My goodness again!!! Satan was outside time when he fell. Spirits are not shackled in our time. The spiritual battle rages on for "ages" but the ages are ours. The spiritual battle is, ...timeless. "Nice try, Jensen", you wrote. But I was not trying anything, really. But do you believe that God created evil? Do you not believe that it was the choice of Satan to "fall." A result of his free will. (Did Adam, then, have free will?) I did re-read my post and I am not sure of where we disagree when one considers that I do not deny your interpretation of the Sciptures you offered. My point was simply that our perception of "time" is not the same as how God views time, which is just a small part of His creation in the final analysis. God created time and put us in it. Like a painter is not a part of his painting yet he leaves a little of himself on the canvas, God has left His image, on us. But He is not the picture, He is not in time or concerned with time, at least like we are. He already knows how things will come to pass. He already knows my future and what choices I will make, and the "times" He will pick me up:) The spirit world is outside of time. Mat17:3 "Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus." A long amount of time had passed from the death of Moses to the life of Jesus. But time is not important here. Time is relative. Elijah and Moses were not so old as to be unrecognizable by the apostle. Time had no effect on them the way we would think it should. They were not in their owntime, but "transported" to the time of Jesus. Time is our possession, and not necessarily that of the heavens. Satan could have taken a thousand years to fall if his time was measured by how we understand time. In our time, he fell quickly. But again, so did Adam. Science has demonstrated the effect of gravity on time, God has demonstrated in the above verse that time is relative. As for your main question; You may believe God created evil while I may believe God did not. But that would be our only point of disagreement. Or do we have a disagreement at all :) God Bless....Jensen |
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95 | Salmon | Bible general Archive 1 | Jensen | 19890 | ||
Dear norrie...This note was sent to Steve but will not be of much help because I do not know what verses will lead Steve to the answer to his question. Hope you can help :-)......Jensen Here are the verses that contain "Salmon"; There does not seem to be any reference to two babies. At least directly. They all seem to be geneologies. There may be a secondary connection perhaps thru the mother or the father but I have not studied further. RU 4:20 Amminadab the father of Nahshon, Nahshon the father of Salmon, RU 4:21 Salmon the father of Boaz, Boaz the father of Obed, 1 Ch 2:11 Nahshon was the father of Salmon, Salmon the father of Boaz, 12 Boaz the father of Obed and Obed the father of Jesse. MT 1:4 Ram the father of Amminadab, Amminadab the father of Nahshon, Nahshon the father of Salmon, MT 1:5 Salmon the father of Boaz, whose mother was Rahab, Boaz the father of Obed, whose mother was Ruth, LK 32 the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Boaz, the son of Salmon, the son of Nahshon, Obed the father of Jesse, God Bless....Jensen |
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96 | Salmon | Bible general Archive 1 | Jensen | 19761 | ||
Wait a minute Steve. I may have misunderstood your question. I have given you the passage where Solomon is going to split a single child in half to discover the real mother. The only thing I find on Salmon is where He is listed in the various geneologies. Nothing about Salmon and two babies. But my resources are not as good as some others here on the Forum so they may have something to add. God Bless...Jensen |
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97 | Overcome by the power of God? | Bible general Archive 1 | Jensen | 19736 | ||
Dear Searcher...They did not fall backwards according to earlier posts. Does falling backwards have a more significant meaning than falling to the ground? I confess I do not know. If you served in Vietnam, in the field or not, then Welcome Home my brother but lets not talk anymore of Vietnam. At least on this thread. God Bless....Jensen |
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98 | Does Mark 7:19 contradict Acts 15:29? | Mark 7:19 | Jensen | 19714 | ||
Dear Retxar...Thank you for the study. I really know how to answer this question now, something I could not do before I took your suggestions. God Bless.....Jensen |
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99 | Overcome by the power of God? | Bible general Archive 1 | Jensen | 19710 | ||
Dear Steve...Forgive me if I misunderstand. I did find in my NIV where the men "..drew back and fell to the ground." And there is no capital "h" in v6. And in the NLT "...they all fell backward to the ground!" And there is no capital "h" in v6. And in the NASB "...they drew back and fell to the ground." And there is a capital "H" in v6. So did they fall backward or not? It is a time like this that I wish I could read the Greek. The difference in translations, in this case, may be more significant than I first thought. I study using the NIV and that is why I answered the way I did. I am not kidding about my Army story. But my experience differed in training versus combat duty. You are right if your experience was during peacetime. In a training situation there was no fooling around. But in a combat situation it was a tension reliever. Really. And Jesus was not the enemy in any case, He was the objective of their mission but no threat to them. Peter maybe :) More importantly, are we suggesting that this detachment went ahead with an arrest eventhough they had experienced the power of God? What then about Pauls jailer in Acts 16:29-30? He, the jailer, was also a trained Roman guard and was impressed by what he saw but he did not put Paul and Silas back in jail as would have been his duty. So it is difficult to say that Roman soldiers would "never" do this or that. Maybe John 18:4ff is not exhaustive enough to come to any conclusion. I do not know of course but I will follow this debate. God Bless...Jensen |
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100 | What does Matthew 24: 28 mean? | Matt 24:28 | Jensen | 19602 | ||
Dear Heartfire...Another view.... When vultures come they come just at the right time. They will circle in the air untill just the right time, in this case waiting for when something is completly dead. When the Son of Man comes it will be just at the right time. When He comes it will be unmistakable (v.27), in God's own time (v.28). When He comes it will be just at the right time. Hope this helps :) God Bless...Jensen |
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