Results 41 - 60 of 140
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Author: Bereaniam Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
41 | Elders not a pastor should lead church | Bible general Archive 3 | Bereaniam | 176402 | ||
Hello Doc Again, Well, let's see if we can go back around this mountain one more time. This is not rocket science. And, you are deep, whether you think it or not. But, I do study my bible also. I asked for just one scripture that said one pastor should be over a congregation. You wrote, "How about some epistles?" I guess I was not specific enough. Give me a book, a chapter, and a verse that says one pastor should be over a congregation, please? You also said, "Look to the pastoral epistles of Paul". I did... that is where I found some of the scriptures that the government (polity) of the church should have egalitarian leadership. Titus 1:5, 1Tim 1:3. However, you know there are other scriptures that allude to the fact that elders were to feed, oversee, and pray for the sick of the church. You asked,"Who is to appoint elders?". New Testament authority says apostles appointed the elders. Today, we do our own thing through the flesh. Pastors submit resumes and have tryouts, my my my, how biblical. You also asked, "Who is to teach?". Tim, I am surprised at you for that question, because I know you read 1 Tim 3:2, Tit 1:9. When Peter said of the elders in 1Pet 5:1-4, "...feed the flock", do you think he meant teach them or take them to green pastures? I did not understand your question about who the recipients were. And of course the elders, who are given the oversight of the church would naturally be the ones to rebuke, and correct...which you know does not happen in most churches. Who knows anybody in the megachurches? Sunday after Sunday, they (many...not all) come, sing,look at the back of others heads, listen to a message, go home, live like the rest of the world until the next Sunday. Who really cares if they need correcting. Many ministers need rebuking...but who is going to do it? Anyway, keep your pastor on the pedestal, honor him, give him bonuses,raises, anniversary and birthday presents, send him off for R and R, let him take a Sabbatical if needed while the the less honorable member, 1Cor 12:23, is forgotten. We are suppose to be one body, but many members. Each member is not more important than the other...each has a job to do. But that is not the case in the 21st Century church, from my observation. Do you believe the words: pastor, bishop, shepherd, overseer, elder, presbytery, teacher, are synonyms and used interchangebly in the Bible? That may be why we are not on the same page. I hope to see you here, there, or in the air. May God bless you spiritually beyond what you can ask, think, or contain, Bereaniam |
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42 | Elders not a pastor should lead church | Bible general Archive 3 | Bereaniam | 176383 | ||
Hello Doc, You are soooo deep! What's this orthopraxy...orthodoxy? Well, I'll have to research that later. All I am asking for is one, uno , 1 scripture from the Holy Bible that says we are to have 1, one, uno pastor. I understand that your Southern Baptists have historical reasons and confessions to have a "single, full-time pastor" (your words). What scriptures did they use? Now single means one, right? So why does your congregation have three full-time pastors? Are you all disobeying the "historic Baptists confessions"? I understand history...but, things change historically. That's why the Bible has to be the final authority. That's why I said the time would come when men would not endure sound doctrine...they start to use cultural changes, historical events,etc. to dictate church-life. No, there are no perfect assemblies...but at least we can establish from the scriptures that the word "pastors" probably was not to be the one person over the church. That is not rocket science! Some things are so clear in the bible that there is no need for a commentary. His, Bereaniam |
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43 | Elders not a pastor should lead church | Bible general Archive 3 | Bereaniam | 176382 | ||
Hello my brother in Christ, Thanks for your note. It is very helpful to me at this time of spiritual crisis in my life. As to what you wrote about 2Tim. 4:3, I know that Paul by the Holy Spirit wrote "teacher". But, isn't a pastor a teacher? Today, I am amazed at how many offices one person can hold...they can be a pastor; apostle, if they go out and establish other churches; evangelist, when they travel to preach at other churches; and, some of them even prophelie...oops,I mean prophesy. I beg to differ with you about the structure of the church. Acts 20:17,18,28; 1Pet 5:1-3; James 5:14, et al clearly spell out who is to be over the church. 2Tim 2:11,12 tells women not to teach men. Paul tells the Corinthians when you come together one has a psalm, a doctrine, a tongue,a revelation...sounds like method, style, and structure to me. To reiterate from my previous note, don't red flags go up when you see the word "pastors" mention only once in the NT? Why are we so bent on doing our own thing? Why can't we just do what we read in the bible? What should be the final authority concerning the church...bible or tradition? You said the offices mentioned in scripture are not clearly defined...1Tim 3:1-13 and Titus 1:5-9 detail the qualifications of officers of the church. You also said, if I interpreted correctly, that culture dictates the style of church-life as we evolve. My very point! The time has come, and now is that we are not enduring sound doctrine, but teaching for doctrine the traditions of men. We may as well throw the bible away and go by customs and culture. Suppose (and it may not be too farfetched) our customs allow for polygamy or homosexual marriages...do we line up our church-life with the culture? Do you think that when men were moved by the Holy Spirit to write the bible that God did not know our culture would change? Did God forget to tell them that the 21st century Christians would be high tech, have liberated women, live in America where "more is never enough"? You said you didn't care about how many pastors we are suppose to have. I'm sure you are familiar with the Laodicean church in Revelation...well, I believe that describes the church today. We say we're rich (big fine buildings, pastors driving Bentleys, wearing 1000 dollar suits, rolex watches, etc.), but the bible said we are lukewarm, wretched, naked, and poor. We have an indifference to the scriptures...we are apathetic. How many people (Christian) do you encounter who know very little about the bible? I recently asked an elder where I assemble, who was Paul...his reply, "I really don't know...I need to study my bible more." I love you my brother...I really am searching...trying to resolve this issue. I am at a point where I don't know where to go on Sundays and Wednesdays. For the past 40 years, I can count on one hand how many times I have not gathered with believers. But now, I feel if I go I am condoning and financially supporting the heresy being practiced. His, Bereaniam |
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44 | Elders not a pastor should lead church | Bible general Archive 3 | Bereaniam | 176322 | ||
Thanks Doc, I will try to research if those type of congregations exist in my immediate community. I will also look into Dr. Devers "Nine Marks of a Healthy Church". As for Eutychus...most of us would fall asleep if someone was as "longwinded" as Luke described Paul. Luke said Paul spoke til midnight. You said, "Don't you think some of what you see today was passed down from the infant church?" That's my very point of concern...Paul said the time was going to come when the church would not endure sound doctrine...they would turn their ears from the truth...have itching ears, and accumulate "pastors" after their own desires. As for Martin Luther, I'm just grateful to him for the Protestant Reformation that opened the church's eyes to salvation by grace through faith alone in Jesus Christ. If it weren't for him we might still be paying and working for our salvation. Again, Br. Doc, you are saying of your own congregation, that you have a "pastor" not based on scripture, but man's thoughts and traditions. The carnal mind is enmity against God. Why can't we base church polity on the Word. Why put it on the back burner? You also said "Christianity has many transcultural mandates and principles." So, does that mean the Bible takes a backseat to our culture, or should the Bible shape our culture? We are told not to love the things of this world. As I get older, I don't want to be disobedient to God's Word. I also do not want to support or condone heresy. A few ministers have told me don't expect change...and that there are no perfect assemblies. Grieved in my soul, Bereaniam. |
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45 | Elders not a pastor should lead church | Bible general Archive 3 | Bereaniam | 176318 | ||
Hello DocTrinsograce, Generally it was the same. In that post, I was concern about just visiting different congregations because I was not at peace in my current one. This time, I am asking if the government of the 21st century church is based on bible doctrine, or because someone was "led" by the Spirit to set one man as overseer, tradition, "whatever feels good", "whatever's user-friendly", etc. Should the Bible be the final authority that governs our behavior? Should we teach for bible doctrine, the commandments, traditions, and doctrines of men"? We have enough doctrine from the Holy Scriptures to follow...why make up some more? The mere fact that the word "pastors" only appears once in the NT should have red flags going off! Where are the Martin Luther's who will not compromise bible doctrine...who will not go along just to get along...who will expose and speak the truth in love...and not let the current aberrant exaltation of one man over the laity go unchallenged? Maybe I'm making too much of this...being too legalistic. I'm just looking for a group of believers who want to follow what Jesus died for. Jesus gave the gospel to Paul for us (Gentiles). Paul says over and over that he is our pattern to follow (of course as he follows Christ). Since the last time I was at this forum, I have visited several assemblies of believers. Their government is the same (pyramid-pastor at the top), they meet on Sundays...look at the back of people's head...sit passively listening to the "pastor", go home...don't see the back of these people's head until the next Sunday; a handful return on Wed. night...even fewer for prayer meeting night(if they have a prayer meeting night-most don't); they believe in tithing -Mal. 3:8-12; prosperity message (more is not enough), gimmicks, schemes, con games to get you to give, etc.; most of the "tithe" is for the "pastor" and/or bigger building. Thanks for your reply and opportunity to sound off. Bereaniam |
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46 | Elders not a pastor should lead church | Not Specified | Bereaniam | 176276 | ||
Can someone give me a scripture from the bible that shows where one person (a pastor) is to oversee, feed, or lead a congregation? Every where that I read about the "government" of the early church in the bible,it was overseen,lead, and fed by elders (plural). I'm sure you bible scholars already know that the word "pastors" only appears one time in the NT. Many people (even pastors) say that's the way it is today, we can't change it. This says to me that what's in the bible doesn't matter. They certainly can't say they were led by the Holy Spirit to set up this "pyramid" type government. What should be the final authority in our lives...the bible, tradition, customs, just what ever we think? Why are we wholesale supporting something that is contrary to how the bible says the churches were organized. Read Acts 20:16,17,28; 1Pet.5:1-3; James 5:14, etc. While I'm on the subject, remember that the following words are synonyms (mean the same) pastor, bishop, elder, presbytery. These are not titles, but functions...it's what you do. My soul is grieved at the abuses I observe among the universal church. We have to stop saying we are going to "church" ...we need to "be the church". Bereaniam |
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47 | Elders not a pastor should lead church | Bible general Archive 3 | Bereaniam | 176313 | ||
Can someone give me a scripture from the bible that shows where one person (a pastor) is to oversee, feed, or lead a congregation? Every where that I read about the "government" of the early church in the bible,it was overseen,lead, and fed by elders (plural). I'm sure you bible scholars already know that the word "pastors" only appears one time in the NT. Many people (even pastors) say that's the way it is today, we can't change it. This says to me that what's in the bible doesn't matter. They certainly can't say they were led by the Holy Spirit to set up this "pyramid" type government. What should be the final authority in our lives...the bible, tradition, customs, just what ever we think? Why are we wholesale supporting something that is contrary to how the bible says the churches were organized. Read Acts 20:16,17,28; 1Pet.5:1-3; James 5:14, etc. While I'm on the subject, remember that the following words are synonyms (mean the same) pastor, bishop, elder, presbytery. These are not titles, but functions...it's what you do. My soul is grieved at the abuses I observe among the universal church. We have to stop saying we are going to "church" ...we need to "be the church". Bereaniam |
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48 | One Pastor and one assembly? | Acts 2:42 | Bereaniam | 175128 | ||
Hello Br. Kalos, In your first post on this subject you were agreeing with Hank. You said "if everyone went church hopping there would be no churches to hop to." Your connotation of the word "church" in that sentence is a "building". And yes, you also did mention the words "church hopping" in that sentence. In another sentence that you wrote, you said,"If no one believed in joining a local church, there would be no local church." Again, your definition of "church" is that it is a building. How can you "join a local church?" My bottom line, is there a book, chapter and/or verse that says a Christian has to sit under one pastor and do it only with the same (nearly the same) people each week? His, Margaret |
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49 | One Pastor and one assembly? | Acts 2:42 | Bereaniam | 175096 | ||
OK, I'll do that. His, Bereaniam |
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50 | One Pastor and one assembly? | Acts 2:42 | Bereaniam | 175095 | ||
Tanks again Hank. Are you a professional writer? I love your similes, metaphors, descriptive language, and imagery. But most of all, the Godly wisdom. His, Bereaniam |
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51 | One Pastor and one assembly? | Acts 2:42 | Bereaniam | 175094 | ||
Brother Kalos, Thanks for responding. I think I am not articulating what is coming from my heart. I do not intend to "church-hop" forever. But, even if I did, are you implying that because the church is never a "lone individual" that when I assemble with different believers that I'm alone? The congregation that we attend weekly are not the only "church" in town. One of the problems with calling a building a "church" is that it is divisive. We seem to disconnect with those who meet down the street or across town. Those are our brothers and sisters too. Why can't we assemble with them? When the early "church" met from "house to house" (church to church), do you think it was always the same people? His, Bereaniam |
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52 | Do we have to have only one pastor, one | Acts 2:42 | Bereaniam | 175080 | ||
Steve, thanks for your concern. Please read my post to Hank and Kalos (dated July 21). I do not intend to hop from one local assembly to the other forever. I just need to visit different ones and pray for divine intervention for God's perfect will to be done. His, Bereaniam |
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53 | One Pastor and one assembly? | Acts 2:42 | Bereaniam | 175079 | ||
Hi Kalos, I am glad you joined in this discussion...I value your input. If you read my note to Hank, you understand that I think we are too hung up on the definition of Church. What book, chapter, and verse of the bible teach us to "join a church"? When you become a Christian, you become the "church". The early church were "church hoppers" (if you only understand it in that vernacular)...they "hopped" from house to house.Acts 2:46 One of the problems we have living the Christ-life is teaching for doctrine the traditions of men, Br. Kalos. I don't want to have "common sense" when it comes to this Christ-life...I want wisdom, divine wisdom. God said He would give it to us liberally according to James, the Lord's brother. Grace and peace to you also, my brother, Bereaniam |
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54 | One Pastor and one assembly? | Acts 2:42 | Bereaniam | 175078 | ||
Hank, As usual, you are very insightful...and this time very funny (the IHOP example,ha ha). I love reading your posts (even when you are not responding to mine). Yes the apostolic churches were stable because there were only a few Christians per city. And even at that, they went from house to house (Church-hopping). Where I live, there is almost a church on every corner, with more on the way. So my "flitting" could be compared to the early church going from house to house, couldn't it? Many people are aspiring to be like the "TV mega-million dollar preachers". I am not planning to church-hop forever. But, until I feel the Lord is "calling" me to settle in one place, I will be visiting different assemblies. As to your questions...I can support the work, worship, and mission of each assembly I visit with my presence, my talents, and finances. Just this past Wednesday, the assembly I visited allowed members of the congregation to contribute to the bible study. After the service, people thanked me for my contributions. Do fellowship and friendship have to only be with believers where you assemble twice a week? Can it be with Christians on your job or in your neighborhood, etc.? They are the church too! I think sometimes we get too hung up on calling the buildings the "church". How much time does the average Christian spend with other believers where they assemble? Most of the people at a local assemble go in, leave out, and never see each other until the next meeting time. What do you mean when you say "having no church roots"? I (we) are the church. My roots are as deep as I desire to apprehend that (Jesus) for which I was apprehended...or for me to say "for me to live is Christ"...or to study to show myself approved...or to be a light to this dark, crooked, perverse generation. Concerning your analogy about the workplace, I know someone who is a very effective consultant...travels all over the USA. How effective are the "pew warmers" at most local assemblies? I think someone said only 20 percent of the people do the "work" at houses of worship. Do you believe that fellowship and friendship are priorities , or fringe benefits of the church life? Don't we mainly go to worship God corporately and to be edified by the Word? What did Jesus mean when He said to the Samarian woman that the time was coming when people would not worship in this mountain or in Jerusalem, but true worshippers would worship in Spirit and truth? What did Stephen mean when he said God does not dwell in temples made with hands? Thanks again for your answer, and agree with me in prayer that God will quickly intervene and direct my path so that His perfect will be done concerning this matter. Bereaniam |
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55 | Do we have to have only one pastor, one | Acts 2:42 | Bereaniam | 175058 | ||
Steve, are you saying you cannot find a scripture that says one has to have one pastor and attend one specific assembly? Bereaniam |
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56 | One Pastor and one assembly? | Acts 2:42 | Bereaniam | 175057 | ||
So Hank, is your answer to my question yes or no? Is there a scripture that says we must have one pastor and attend one local assembly? Bereaniam |
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57 | Do we have to have only one pastor, one | Acts 2:42 | Bereaniam | 174940 | ||
Thanks Hank, I will continue to pray for God to order my steps and to give me a spirit of wisdom and revelation. Bereaniam |
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58 | Do we have to have only one pastor, one | Acts 2:42 | Bereaniam | 174931 | ||
Thanks Steve, this did indeed help. My problem is that I cannot find a local church that lines up with what I read in the bible. I have been part of a local congregation for the past 13 years. It has so strayed away from bible doctrine lately...teaching traditions of men, its all about the "building", prosperity, glitz, glamour, no altar calls, teaching from books, Wednesday nights -cooking classes, make-up lessons, etc. My pastor has become "successful"became a "Bishop" recently, owns a ranch, horses, cattle, all of his children are on the payroll of the church, along with his sister, his son's father-in-law, his mother, his father-in-law and mother-in-law. He believes and hits us frequently with we are robbing God or cursed with a curse if we don't tithe. I have been searching for another place to assemble with other believers, but pretty much have found that they are all the same. My spiritual gift is that of a servant. I use this gift to minister to the poor in my community.There are Christians in my community who are not part of "my" local assemble.I edify (build up) people on my job, in my neighborhood, etc. One other thing I observe among many "church-goers"-they go on Sundays, they leave, and probably never see those they assemble with until the next Sunday. When they do "fellowship" it's all about non-spiritual things. I know someone might say I do not want to be under authority...that's not it. I had no problem with that until my pastor started to change a few years ago. I am grieved at what I see going on with the church as a whole. It seems we have lost our first love and became "lukewarm." No one wants to go to prayer meetings. No one wants to have Sunday night meetings. Pastors want to be Drs., bishops, prophets, etc. Pastors want airplanes, helicopters, million dollar homes, 1200 suits, etc. We look more like the world than they do. Where is the church? Where is "The Church"? Bereaniam |
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59 | Do we have to have only one pastor, one | Not Specified | Bereaniam | 174920 | ||
I know the bible says not to forsake the assembling of ourselves (Heb 10:25) and that pastors, et al, have been given to equip and edify the church (Eph. 4:11). I also know that the early church went from house to house. What scripture says we must sit under one pastor and with one particular group of believers? Bereaniam |
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60 | Do we have to have only one pastor, one | Acts 2:42 | Bereaniam | 174921 | ||
I know the bible says not to forsake the assembling of ourselves (Heb 10:25) and that pastors, et al, have been given to equip and edify the church (Eph. 4:11). I also know that the early church went from house to house. What scripture says we must sit under one pastor and with one particular group of believers? Bereaniam |
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