Results 41 - 60 of 155
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
41 | Good and Bad Fruit Out of Context? | Matt 12:33 | bowler | 207494 | ||
Val Thanks very much. bowler |
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42 | Good and Bad Fruit Out of Context? | Matt 12:33 | bowler | 207476 | ||
Val Sorry for taking so long to get back to you about your answers to my questions about the example you provided about how to do an inductive Bible Study. I do not want to refute anything you said, more rather, I wanted to try out the method as you outline to me for a while. I am interested in methods of how to study the Bible. My concern about that is how we get to an application. In order to glorify God in everything I do, or learn to, I need to understand what God has said before I think I know what it means or how to apply it. Thanks for your help in understanding things and for taking the time to do the work of making an example for me. Luke 7:16 Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed; but he puts it on a lampstand, so that those who come in may see the light. blessings abound, bowler |
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43 | Good and Bad Fruit Out of Context? | Matt 12:33 | bowler | 207425 | ||
Doctrinsograce I all fairness to you, researching where I studied this stuff from in the books is something I would like to share with you. First of all I would like to do this because it will make it easier for you to look up and check that I did not quote it if you are able to see the exact pages and passages I used to back up my notes. And second of all, it would be rather more fair to you and others who might posses these books, if I were to provide you the page numbers and chapters I read to save you the foot work of having to sift through it all. Here are books I studied and the pages and chapters - Living by the Book by Howard and William Hendricks - chapter 4 "An Overview of the Process" pages 39-45 - the latest edition. Biblical Preaching by Haddon W. Robinson - chapter 1 "The Case For Biblical Preaching" pages 20, 21 - chapter 5 "The Arrow And The Target" pages 101-103. Interpreting the New Testament by H. Conzelmann and A. Lindmemann - chapter 1 "Part 1 Methodology" pages 1-45. How To Read The Bible For All Its Worth by Gordon D. Fee and Douglas Stuart - chapter 1 "Introduction The Need To Interpret" pages 25-31. I hope this helps you understand once you read all this that I did not quote anyone, I studied these books, plus my 20 years of notes, and wrote a note as a post in answer to a question from tumbleweed. 2 Timothy 2:5 Also if anyone competes as an athelete, he does not win the prize unless he competes according to the rules. blessings abound, bowler |
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44 | Good and Bad Fruit Out of Context? | Matt 12:33 | bowler | 207424 | ||
Doctrinsograce I did not quote a "source", truthfully I did not. I crafted this definition "The Study of the Bible derived from a historical, grammatical, and literary study of a passage in its context, through answering a set, or series of questions asked of the passage, in order to arrive at a literal interpretation from which to form an application.", myself after carefully looking at what it means to do an expository Bible Study. The first elements from "history to literaly" I got from my notes and from looking these things up in the books to verify my notes - I did not quote anyone, including the pastors, I used my own words and thoughts. From questions of content through questions of context - this was largely what I have learned over the past 20 years in my church and was in bits and pieces in those myriad of note books, and I used the books to make sure I had it straight - I did not quote any books, I used my own words. Questions to determine an application came largely from what I have learned in church from the notebooks and only part of that is backed up in the books - I did not quote, I used my own words. For the example post - I sat down for two solid hours and used the entire first post about what an expository Bible Study is and did the work, step, by step, using the outline in that I submitted and came up with the answer on my own. The only part that I got from somewhere else is my current pastor took us through the Book of John and I learned about the usage of the word "Edei", and the three sub-themes of John - and I did not quote him, or my other pastors either, I used my own words to express what I have learned to do over the years. Ansewering tumbleweed's note made me sit down for the first time and actually hammer out what I know in bits and pieces about how to do exegesis. I think I said in another post that I was aware of several definitions of what exegesis is. That would be definitions I did not use in here from four books and in bits and pieces with different forumulas from 3 pastors in 25 note books. What I did was sat down and opened up four different books with the parts in them and looked at four links, as well as 20 years worth of notebooks with notes from going to my church where my pastors (three in 20 years) all practiced a strict adherence to expository preaching and teaching by the use of exegesis. I sat down for a lot of hours yesterday and today, and studied first and foremost my notes in the 25 note books of hand written notes to look for bits and pieces of this stuff. Then I looked through Biblical Preaching by Haddon W. Robbinson, Living by the Book by Howard G. Hendricks, Interpreting the New Testatment by H. Conzelmann and A. Lindemann, and How To Read The Bible For All Its Worth by Gordon D. Fee to make sure I had it right. Here are the links, but I did not quote them either, I studied them to make sure my notes in my note books were on target. http://www.discipleshipministry.com/book3.pdf http://www.triviumpursuit.com/articles/inductive_and_deductive_bible_studies.php http://www.intothyword.org/pages.asp?pageid equal sign 53490 http://www.chrisapp.org/partner/Article_Display_Page/0,,PTID34418 percent sign 7CCHID784254 percent sing 7CCIID2285958,00.html 2 Timothy 2:15 Be diligent to present yourself approved of God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handing the word of truth. blessings abound, bowler |
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45 | Good and Bad Fruit Out of Context? | Matt 12:33 | bowler | 207420 | ||
Continued Expository Bible Study Example Questions – a series of questions asked of the passage to determine the content of the passage; Content – the information that determines what the passage is about. Who is in the passage? – Jesus, the Samaritan woman, and the Samaritans. What is the passage about? – Jesus is ordained by God to go Samaria to meet the woman in order to offer salvation to the Samaritans. Where does the passage take place? – In Samaria, a country hostile to the Jews. When does the passage take place? – Somewhat near the beginning of Jesus ministry in the first century. Why does this passage appear in the book it is in? – To demonstrate that Jesus offers salvation to everyone and not just to the Jews, to fulfill the OT Scriptures that the Messiah would come, and to show that Jesus is the Messiah. Questions – a series of questions asked of the passage to determine the context of the passage; Context – the information that determines how a passage should be interpreted. What is the theme of the book the passage falls under? – The larger theme of John is Jesus is the Messiah as the Son of God, there are three sub- themes – Jesus is God in John 1:1-5 – John 1:1-4:54, Pivotal chapter 5 segues into Jesus is Rejected in John 1:5, 11 – John 5:1-9:41, Jesus Gives Life To All Who Accept Him in John 1:12, 13 – John 10:1-21:25. What is the theme of the passage itself as a segment within the book? – The theme is the first sub-theme that Jesus is God, and that Jesus saves all people and not just the Jews. What is the author’s intent in writing to his recipients, what is his objective, what does he want them to understand? – To tell the story of a sinful woman who worshipped the right God the wrong way, how she came to know that Jesus is God, and that the salvation of non Jews by Jesus is ordained by God. What is the author’s intention for his recipients, what does he want them to do, what is his application for them? – To understand that the love of God towards those who sin is not bound by culture and to be willing to offer salvation to non Jews, and that there is a right way to worship God. What, according to the first four questions of context, does the passage mean, what is it saying on its own, what is the literal interpretation? – Jesus is the Messiah as the Son of God, and He is ordained by God to offer salvation to everyone including non Jews. Questions – a set of questions asked to determine how to apply the passage; What does this passage mean based off a literal interpretation of what the passage is about? – It means that God in His love for us has ordained Jesus to offer salvation to everyone regardless of where they come from and that we should be willing to offer salvation to everyone. Why and how is this passage important to us now in this century? – God is to be worshiped the right way, everyone is a sinner no matter where they are from, the passage is important now because everyone still needs the salvation of Jesus Christ in this century. How should this passage be applied using a literal interpretation? – The right way to worship God is to get saved by Jesus Christ, we are to go out to everyone and offer them the salvation of Jesus Christ. This is an example of how to “pull the author’s intent” out of the passage. 2 Timothy 2:15 Be diligent to present yourself approved of God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. blessings abound, bowler |
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46 | Good and Bad Fruit Out of Context? | Matt 12:33 | bowler | 207419 | ||
tumbleweed An example of an expository Bible Study. John 4:3-26, 39-42 History – the Samaritans were a people of mixed race; Jews and Assyrians. There was a war between them according to the Jewish historian Josephus. About 100 years before Jesus showed up in Samaria, a caravan of Jews were passing from Israel in the North and were going to Judea in the South and instead of going around Samaria, which was in the middle, they passed through Samaria. The Jews were attacked and killed, and because of that the Jews and Samaria had a short war. Samarians also worshipped the God of Israel and had the Torah, but they did not worship at Jerusalem in the temple, but up on a mountain. Therefore it was odd that Jesus would choose to go to Samaria as Jews have no dealings with Samaritans. Grammar – John 3:7, 14, 30, 4:24, the Greek word “Edei” – you must, so must, John 4:4 He must needs go to Samaria – a divine imperative of a God ordained event – God ordained that Jesus would go to meet the Samaritan woman. Water is a dominant theme in John – water is symbolic of the Holy Spirit, of spiritual cleansing, and of eternal life – John 3:5, 4:10, 13. Literary – John 4:7-9 – give Me a drink – an unusual request for a Jew to make of a Samaritan. John 4:10 – Jesus speaks of His deity and a spiritual thing, and notes that the Samaritan woman does not recognize who he is. John 4:11, 12 She mistakes Jesus reference to living water as a spiritual thing and goes back to her cultural concern stating that Jesus is not greater than the father of Samaritans, Jacob. John 4:16-18 Jesus tells the woman He has a water that springs up to eternal life, the woman asks for this water. Jesus tells her all her personal sin business, and she calls Him a prophet, still not understanding who He is. John 4:19-24 She makes the point again that Jews worship differently than Samaritans. Jesus explains that soon no one will worship the way either group did, but that the Jews worshipped the right way in the right place and the Samaritans did not. He goes on to explain that God desires those who will worship in Spirit and truth. John 4:25-26 The woman says she knows Messiah is coming, Jesus, having wooed the woman to Him by asking for a drink and drawing her into a conversation about who He is, says to her I am He. John 4:39-42 The woman testified to the Samaritans and many believed, and they came to hear Jesus and even more believed. They told the woman that they no longer believed because she testified, but because of the words of Jesus they believed He was the Savior of the world. To Be Continued bowler |
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47 | Good and Bad Fruit Out of Context? | Matt 12:33 | bowler | 207418 | ||
tumbleweed What is expository Bible Study? The Study of the Bible derived from a historical, grammatical, and literary study of a passage in its context, through answering a set, or series of questions asked of the passage, in order to arrive at a literal interpretation from which to form an application. History – the history of the time in which the passage was written. Grammar – the meanings of the words and phrases in their original languages and how they are used in the passage, and how they are used in other parts of the Bible; Hebrew and Greek, and in English in their grammatical construction. Literary – the meanings of the words and phrases within sentences, and the sentences within the context of the preceding and subsequent verses, as well as the types of literature that each book has been written as. Questions – a series of questions asked of the passage to determine the content of the passage; Content – the information that determines what the passage is about. Who is in the passage? What is the passage about? Where does the passage take place? When does the passage take place? Why does this passage appear in the book it is in? Questions – a series of questions asked of the passage to determine the context of the passage; Context – the information that determines how a passage should be interpreted. What is the theme, or themes of the book the passage falls under? What is the theme of the passage itself as a segment within the book? What is the author’s intent in writing to his recipients, what is his objective, what does he want them to understand? What is the author’s intention for his recipients, what does he want them to do, what is his application for them? What, according to the first four questions of context, does the passage mean, what is it saying on its own, what is the literal interpretation? Questions – a set of questions asked to determine how to apply the passage; What does this passage mean based off a literal interpretation of what the passage is about? Why and how is this passage important to us now in this century? How should this passage be applied using a literal interpretation? An exposition of the Bible is called “exegesis” – to pull out of the text the author’s intent in writing to his audience, resulting in an application derived from a literal interpretation of the Bible. An exposition of the Bible can be done on single lines of scripture, segments of scripture within a book, or as a topical study using many scriptures to cover a single subject. When a Bible study is done where a literal interpretation has not been obtained first, the meaning of the passage as intended by the author is often lost. This is not a literal interpretation of the Bible, and is called “eisegesis” – “putting into scripture what the author never intended”. Tools necessary to do an expository Bible Study – A literal translation of the Bible like the NKJV, KJV, ESV, or the NASB – to get the passage and be able to study it. A Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance. – to understand the words, and how they are used elsewhere in the Bible. A Bible Commentary – links like the Ethereal Library, or Precept Austin, or others, to find out the theme, or themes and to see what others have found out before you about some of the questions about the passage. A pad of paper, or a computer, to write down all the questions and their answers, and to do the work. 2 Timothy 2:15 Be diligent to present yourself approved of God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. blessings abound, bowler |
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48 | least in kingdom greater than John | Matt 11:11 | bowler | 207384 | ||
Flinty Joe About John and the Holy Spirit Luke 1:15 For he will be great in the sight of the Lord; and he will drink no wine or liquor, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit while yet in his mother's womb. How can we say John did not get the Holy Spirit? He got Him while still in the womb. Ephesians 4:3 Being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. bowler, blessings abound |
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49 | Jesus and Children as Paedobaptism? | Mark 10:14 | bowler | 207374 | ||
Steve I am curious then, what is the "passage", which is only a segment of three verses dealing with primarly? Ephesians 4:3 Being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. bowler, blessings abound |
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50 | Good and Bad Fruit Out of Context? | Matt 12:33 | bowler | 207373 | ||
Val Thank you very much. I was waiting with much anticiaption for an explanation of how inductive study is suppossed to work, since I have very little knowledge about it. Am I correct in understanding that the "formula" for lack of a better word is the following? - Main Characters Event Application Are there other elements one would use in place of some of these three in another type of passage, and would there be more than three? I have a few questions, if you don't mind answering them. Are whole passages always broken down into parts like you have outlined as part of an inductive Bible study? Can inductive Bible study be applied to the broader passage that are made of the parts? The first application; does Jesus heal all Christians when they come to him? The sixth application; is this talking about the Holy Spirit drawing men to God? And could people who first resist His drawing be forgiven of that if they repent, haven't plenty of people done that? Isn't blasepheming against the Holy Spirit saying Jesus did His works by the power of Satan according to verse 24? The seventh application; Isn't this talking directly about the fruit of the Pharisees and not of Jesus fruit and that you will know Pharisees by their fruits? I have more questions about the applications but these stood out. It seems like some things that I have learned about Bible study are different. I would make a guess that you know many methods of Bible study by your profile.:-) I am wondering about parts of the process in this group of examples you gave. The text says this - Main Characters The text says this - Event The author's intent to his audience - Not there that I could see, but I may be wrong The author's application to his audience - Not there that I could see, but I may be wrong What it matters now is this - The application The application now is this - The application I am trying to see how this indcutive Bible study method takes into consideration, not just what we get from the text from just reading it, but what the author meant to convey to his audience and what the author's application was to his audience. I don't see it here in this method. Perhaps you could help me to understand better, I am missing something, or not understanding correctly? Thank you for taking the time. Ephesians 4:3 being diligent to preserve the unity of the body in the bond of peace. bowler, blessings abound |
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51 | Sheol Hell or World of the Dead? | Eccl 8:14 | bowler | 207324 | ||
John Not trying to quibble with you. It seems that Sheol as death and as hell are interchangeable at points according to their usage throughout the OT - and that there is also another name for death in the same sentence, at times, as Sheol, which in those sentences render it Sheol to be hell as we understand hell. It makes me wonder since Lazarus and rich man were in the "world of the dead" (Hades) also another meaning for Sheol, as if that is what the writer of Ecclesisates meant as well by using the word. I guess you are right. Just a worthless son. blessings abound, bowler |
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52 | God, Are You There? | John 16:8 | bowler | 207276 | ||
Steve I meant no harm or self promotion at all. I did add that others also do the exact same thing and included myself, saying I try, implying "I don't always either". I was not judging her at all. There have been several posts lately where others oberved a lack of scripture attached, and I myself am guilty of this. "Guilt" may be the wrong word. Please don't judge me, my statements were not meant to judge her. Just a worthless son. blessings abound, bowler |
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53 | What happend to Jonah? | Nah 1:1 | bowler | 207259 | ||
preciouspup I do apologize to you! I assumed first that you did not read it, that was wrong of me! Second I assumed that because God rebuked Jonah about wanting to die, that Jonah was allowed to live! Just a worthless son. blessings abound, bowler |
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54 | Good and Bad Fruit Out of Context? | Matt 12:33 | bowler | 207238 | ||
Doc There is always only one interpretation and there may be several applications. Deductive Bible study starts with the presuposition of something to be absolutely true: All cats are mortal Felix is a cat Therefore Felix is mortal In this case beccause the first premise is true and because the form is correct the conclusion is true. A (cat) plus B (mortal) is true - since C (Felix) is A (cat) - then C (Felix) plus B (mortal) is true. The inductive method of the studying the Bible starts with specific observations - I have looked at 100 T-bone steaks 100 T-bone steaks had bones T-bone steaks have bones In this case what has been observed can be said to be true, although if other observations had been made, other things could also be said to be true, although not as contradictions. It starts out as an observation of a thing from which more than one conclusion could be drawn if different elements were observed about that thing. A (100 T-bone steaks) have been observed - A (100 T-bone steaks) have B (bones) - A (100 T-bone steaks) always have B (bones) The expository study of the Bible - The text says this in the language The circumstances were this in the text The author's intent to his audience was this The author's application to his audience was this What it matters now is this, however many this's there are The application is now this, and however many this's there are The study starts with the facts of the language and history in the text, and moves to the author's intent and application for his audience, and ends with how this matters now, and how to apply it now. One could say that one starts with the premise that the text is absolutely true, and that the author proscribes the form that must be taken to arrive at a conclusion of what the interpretation is, which proscribes what the application will be. A (the language and history of the text) plus - what B (the author's intent to his audience) does - proscribes what A (the language and history of the text) means - proscribes what C (the believer) does as A (the language and history of the text) plus B (the author's intent to his audience). The first types of Bible study are "arugments" of logic and reason, the last type is not an "argument", but exegesis by itself. Now I am not saying that exegsis are not used in these methods, can't be used, were not used by those who do inductive, or deductive Bible Study. I also don't claim to have the only explanation of what inductive and deductive Bible Studies are. I am open to discussion about what these things are from your understanding, or someone elses understanding. Or even what exegesis is, as I only gave one model out of a possible several that I know of what exegsis is. As it stands about the text - Jesus was originally speaking about the unforgivable sin to the Pharisees. He told them all about His power and where it comes from and the power of Satan and them operating by the power of the devil. That is the direct original context of the verses that come before what I was originally asking about, as my verses are naturally part of that discourse. He was talking to them about what comes out of their mouths as sin, the unforgivable sin. Many have used the phrase "for the tree is known by its fruit" to mean that they are going to look at whether or not people live in sin, "do" sin - as actions like adultery, stealing, killing, hitting and so on. The idea that it has to do with "speaking" has been sort of shuffled around a bit and kind of lost. This is what I was asking about. Perhaps you were thinking that sin, is sin, is sin? Whatever kind? I do believe the passage lends itself to an application to all sin. It is the process of getting there I am interested in, not that everybody has applied it that way for eons, and so I should too. I know exactly what I believe already about a whole lot of things, and I can tick off my fingers what others tell me they believe too, and what the theologians believe. I am not interested in that part about most anything I study because that part is moot. I am interseted in being able to prove, as a workman, the reasons from scripture first and foremost, for what I already believe, or what others believe. Just a worthless son. blessings abound, bowler |
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55 | How many generations betw Exodus-Solomon | Matt 1:17 | bowler | 207231 | ||
Doc I went back to see what we were discussing. I would be happy to hear from you or Val, whoever that saint is, or anyone else on inductive study methods for post #207078.:-) I don't believe I heard you correctly! Ponificate, Pontificate? Oh, no, no, no! That is not how I view people who carefully state what they beleive in graceful terms! No matter how many times, as long as they do not apply gracefulness to the art of "graceful" insult! Let the Liberty of Christ prevail here, I am open to discussion! Now, about what you are saying in this last post Doc you made further up the branch - That there are things you do not agree with from some of the great theologians. In the instance of John Calvin for instance I happen to agree with you. In a totaly irrelevant post to this one I tried nicely as I could to differentiate between quoting the direct source theologians and quoting those who have derived creeds. That those who have made creeds whose work has partialy depended on the original source, I usually have no problem with depending on the creed. It is the source theologian's original unchanged, uninterpreted work that I often find some trouble with. Like elements of Luther's Small and Great Catechism, like the parts of the content of John Calvin's Institutes in addressing the heretics. Each has elements that show certain beliefs I cannot hold. I agree with you in this branch that the whole line of "Great Divines" have gotten this one right. If Mathew and Hebrews and James are all talking about the only Rahab that exists in the OT, then it can be none other than the Harlot. I will post you about inductive study and such in the appropriate post. I look forward to hearing from you about it. Just a worthless son. blessings abound, bowler |
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56 | How many generations betw Exodus-Solomon | Matt 1:17 | bowler | 207226 | ||
Jim Estes I would like to see if it would be possbible to look at this from a diferrent angle. Let's please put down the "Great Divines" as part of the discussion just for a minute. The Bible is the plenary inspired word of God - every word is not dictated to the writers word for word, but the actual words themselves are the scriptures God-breathed by God the author. 2 Peter 1:20 and 2 Timothy 3:16. That being said we have three New Testament writers speaking about Rahab the Harlot. Mathew 1:5 says Rahab is in Jesus lineage. Hebrews 11:13 says Rahab the Harolt had faith. James 2:25 says Rahab was justified by her works. All three writers are referring to a Rahab from the OT, and there is only one Rahab in the OT. The word Rahab appears as Rachab in the OT in Joshua, with a "c" in the Hebrew. The word Rahab appears in Hebrews and James as Rhaab borrowed from the Septuagint. The word Rahab appears in Mathew as Rhachab with an "h" and a "c", and is a derivative of the Hebrew Rachab, and is not from the Septuagint. The translators settled on Rahab for all texts. The time lines may not be something we can ever resolve. There are mysteries in the Bible, they belong to God. Both Rahab and Ruth took the God of the Hebrews to be thier God, nowhere does it say they went back to paganism. Why can it not be that they converted to Judaism and are therefore truly Jews? Paul says being Jewish is a circumsion of the heart, on that basis alone, they qualify to be in Jesus lineage - by God's sovereign will. This is just my humble opinion. Just a worthless son. blessings abound, bowler We may not have to place our trust in the Great Divines, but we can place our trust in the same thing they did, the authority of the Bible - Sola Scriptura. |
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57 | How many generations betw Exodus-Solomon | Matt 1:17 | bowler | 207176 | ||
Jim Estes You were addressing Doc, but I would like to jump in, although I wouldn't presume to answer for Doc or anyone else.:-) When we consider Sola Scriptura there is a tendency to think in term of Scripture first and only Scripture should interpret Scripture. Your post here got me to thinking about this important doctrine and how we use it. I while ago there was another post, unrelated to this whole branch, in which it came up that there are different ways to go about getting an interpretation. Don't worry, I am coming back to your point with this. The discussion started one place and got off onto styles of interpretation. That post and this one got me, as I say thinking about how we use Sola Scriptura. The "Great Divines" as some like to call them, at least the ones some Christians pay attention to, sat down and studied according to the doctrine of Sola Scriptura. They spent laborious amounts of time pouring over all the various aspects of Bible Study using exegesis. They came to the conclusions they came to about what scripture is saying to all of us by various methods of interpretation. Many of them agree about a great number of things. I have a theory for you without attempting to speak for anyone, including myself. When so many theologians have studied a topic, a passage, a book, a doctrine, and all come to the same conclusion, it is seen by a great many individuals picking up their works and reading them that they have hit upon the truth. Numbers of people believing the same thing does not make it true. However, there is only one true interpretation of any part of the Bible, there are not two, or three. "Authorities external to the Scriptures" they may be, but they may have studied these scriptures to a high degree that some of us are not capable of, or would not have the time for, and have all come to the same conclusion about the same thing. Now, all that was not in defense of anyone, or anything, but just a careful observation of these "Great Divines". I myself have found I disagree strongly with them, regardless of the numbers of them that have said, this, or that because in studying for myself and arriving at a different conclusion, I could not agree. And after talking to people outside of here, whose credentials I will not get into, they aslo did not agree. So, don't get me wrong, because I have, even in here, disagreed with the findings of the "Great Divines". You are not looking for sympathy, and I don't offer any. I do see your point. I aslo see that there is a different way to view what constitutes adherence to Sola Scriptura than to say that "authorities and doctrines" are acting or are having views outside the "authority of scripture". This is just my humble opinion and is not to put anybody down, or to act like it is my job to solve some apparent difference between two people, or to push my views on you. Just a worthless son. blessings abound, bowler |
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58 | Why Could He Not Do Many Miracles? | Luke 9:42 | bowler | 207169 | ||
Immanuelsown Two things, how could we even begin to compare Benny Hinn and people's response to him to Jesus Christ and people's response to Him? I don't for one second think you are supporting Benny Hinn, far from it! I simply cringe at the two being used to illustrate a mode of response by anybody in the same sentence, which I realize is all you were trying to do. I would ask you, what you would do with some of the original scriptures I provided that dealt with individuals and not with the crowds? In these accounts Jesus healed them and they exhibited absolutely no faith, as oppossed to the other batch of scriptures I provided where those who were healed had faith. It is apparent regarding healing individuals from my first batch of scriptures that they had no faith, faith was not mentioned, was not a factor, and Jesus did not address it saying they had faith. So it is not true, I am not saying you said exactly so, that people got healed because they had faith and sought Jesus. He often walked up to them, healed them, finished and walked off and they did not get saved, or have faith. Just a thought. Just a worthless son. blessings aboung, bowler |
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59 | Why Could He Not Do Many Miracles? | Luke 9:42 | bowler | 207168 | ||
BradK I do believe I have finally heard a really good answer to my orginal question in this post of yours. Everyone had excellent answers, however this does very much cover all the bases here - 1 Their unbelief was out of His hands. 2 He knew that they would not be profited by His continuance. 3 He Himself states that He was least received in His own home town, a place where it is likely He would have been willing to do much. I would not disparge the thoughts of all the others here, each of them contributed valuable insights. Thank you. Just a worthless son. blessings abound, bowler |
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60 | Why Could He Not Do Many Miracles? | Luke 9:42 | bowler | 207167 | ||
Azure With all due respect to you and your point the fact that it is a gift is not because "we would be pleased to accept a gift" and God does not give the "gift" to please us, but Himself. Paul - Romans 3:24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus. Romans 5:15-17 But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of God of the one Man Jesus Christ, abound to the many. The gift is not like that which came throught the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from the one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification. For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who recieve the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One Jesus Christ. The gift of the grace of God, salvation, God was pleased to give - 1 Corinthians 1:21 For since in the wisdom fo God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well pleased throught the foolishness of the message preached to save those who beleive. Those who are repentant and seeking Christ for forgivness of sins and entrance into eternal life are receiving the free gift of God's grace - but it is not their reaching and receiving the gift that is the focus of the word "gift" as it appears in referrence to "grace" in the Bible. The focus is on what God is doing. When people humble themselves and come to Christ God will work on them through the Holy Spirit and they will come to understand the greatness of the "gift of grace" they have received. I completley agree with you that when we understand that we need grace our heart and mind will be changed. Just a worthless son. blessings abound, bowler |
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