Results 21 - 40 of 155
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Results from: Notes Author: bowler Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
21 | is it ok to lie in certain cases | Col 3:9 | bowler | 207920 | ||
Azure I already pointed out in the cases of Rahab and Jonathon that it was the saving of lives that God accounted as right, and that they lying was not mentioned in the Bible as also being condoned. I was not condoning lying, but saving lives. Are you going to ignore what Jesus told the Pharisees? That they would of course break the law to save a life and that according to Jesus that was the right thing to do? Where did I say lying was right? I said to look at Doc's posts wherein he outlines the theological concept of God's use of Second Causes which sometimes includes man sinning to get done what He alone ordains by plan A because there is no plan B. I am not advocating lying. The entire problem here goes well beyond a simple it is wrong it is right outlook of what a Christian should do, as Jesus pointed out it is right to break a lesser law to save a life. Jesus was not merely showing Pharisees their sin, He was saying that they were hypocrites because anyone in their right mind would do what is necessary to save a life, even break a Ten Commandment that holds lesser weight than preserving a life. How often did Jesus say to the Pharisees that there law keeping of lesser things was not truly righteous. They had laws they made up and laws God made up and Jesus made a point of showing them that they once again were concerened about jots and tittles and were missing the larger intent of the law, which was not keeping jots and tittles in order to be righteous. It was to honor the "intent" of God's laws which could be summed up in two commandments - the Love the Lord they God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind, and love your neighbor as yourself - as He said all the other laws are summed up by these two. Therefore it is not right to allow someone to be murdered because you are so very concerned about lying, it is right, however to do what is in your power to do to save them because the excercise of love towards God and man in preserving a life that God preciously created is more important than maintaining the appearance of personal righteousness, whether virtual or real, keeping that does not trump saving a life. That is not condoning sin, it is choosing a higher commmandment by which to make a decisoin saving God's precious creation over lying. We are not law keepers, the love of Christ prevails over the law. The blood of Jesus is efficasious to cover as smaller sin of lying over being complicit in murder. The concept of saving a life over lying does not lend itself to other less dire reasons to lie, this is not about laying down normative principles of Christian behavior that lying is right. That is taking what I said way out of context. If you had to choose and God did not provide a way out for you, did not provide you another option; would you save the life or hold on to your righteous ability to not lie? God does not always provide a way out. "No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it. " This text is often misused to pressupose that God will make a way out of any situation as if "temptation" is referring to anything but what it means - to be tempted by a "desire" to sin, not a dire situation you cannot get out of. God did not allow David to escape from Saul for 13 years while he was on the run, God did not provide a way out when David had no choice by the run to Ziklag where he had to slaughter whole towns so that the ruler there would not discover David was lying to his face to survive, the lives of 600 plus people under David's resonsiblity were at stake. God did not provide a way out for any of the sticky situations David was in within which David resorted to subterfuge in various situations to survive until Saul was dead. God does not always provide an avenue where you will be able to do everything right. If he has done so for you, then God bless you. There are plently of people who have endured war time as civilians who did things to survive, it was either do what is necessary to survive or die. I do not think anyone except Jesus is so noble as to be able to endure all things the way He did that God would allow to happen. The Bible teaches that we are to strive and struggle with our salvation and to suffer for the sake of Christ. It does not say that we are supppossed to allow others to die so that we can appear to be righteous people simply for the sake of keeping God's laws. That is what Jesus was saying to the Pharisees. blessings abound, bowler |
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22 | is it ok to lie in certain cases | Col 3:9 | bowler | 207913 | ||
Steve I agree that God's laws are perfect and absolute. But what about Rahab? What are we to think? What if laying down your life for the person someone else is trying to kill is not an option being laid out on the table, like Jonathon's lie of ommission in letting David go free when Saul was trying to kill him? Question; according to scripture was Rahab's motive to save her own hide? Yes, and to recognize God. Question was Jonathon's motive to save his own hide? No, it was to save David's and recognize David's right to be the future king of Israel. Both had their actions approved by God and that included lying, although the scriptures do not say that God condoned that particular part. But since there was never going to be plan B, then God ordained that they would lie, whether that was a sin or not, to save some lives that were central to God's plan that they remain alive; all of Israel through the actions of 4 spies to take Jericho, and David to be king of Israel. I am not saying God condones sin, but He used it to His own ends. That makes me think hard about Bathsheba, there was never going to be a plan B, David's adulterous relationship was always going to result in Solomon, of the direct lineage of Jesus. God chose not to do it any other way, and that involved two sins, murder and adultery. Man is still responible for his sins, whatever they are, they will be punished, but sin is also part of God's plan. Doc turned me on to a whole bunch of posts on this, but I can't find them right now. I think if you type "Secondary Causes" or "Causes as Secondary Causes" or some such you will be able to find it. Interesting stuff. This also makes me think about the woman who got caught by the Germans for hiding Anne Frank. If I have the story right, she never spent even one day suffering, or being punished in any way for hiding Anne Frank by the Germans. Her motive was not self protection in lying by ommission and illegaly hiding Jews. Someone correct me if I am wrong. I would say to you that you are right God's laws are never limited and they are absolute. But by the same token whatever He decides will happen are righteous and holy descisions that may include all kinds of things that His laws state are not righteous and holy - He never contradicts the law because He is perfect. Question; why would you assume that God would be pleased that you stood on Biblical principle and refused to lie as if that were a better good than saving a life just to save a life by lying? Which one is worse lying, or being complicit in murder? That reminds me of a certain group of people that believed you could not do anything on the Sabbath because it was one of the Ten Commandment sins, as is lying, but Jesus said to them, "which one of you would not break the law to save the life of his live stock if it fell down the well?" to paraphrase that is the jist of what He meant. I think that says it all right there. I think we should be willing to consider that there are higher goods and acts than law keeping and preservation of somebody elses life might be one of them. Luke 14:5 And He said to them, "Which one of you will have a son or an ox fall into a well, and will not immediately pull him out on a Sabbath day?" blessings abound, bowler |
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23 | Did God create evil? | 3 John 1:11 | bowler | 207902 | ||
Flinty Joe Please take the time to read the following post numbers in order scrolling down - 2, 3, 8 - all by Doc, and 5 by Kalos - you will find these by typing the word "theodicy" in the upper right hand corner in the search function. Doc and Kalos make a great big dent in answering your concerns here as your questions fall under the area of study called theodicy. I particularly like the part where Doc addresses the issue of that God has provided for us to know "what to do", but has absolutely no reason or responsibility toward us to provide a "why things are so". Job 38:1-15 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind and said, "Who is this that darkens counsel By words without knowledge? "Now gird up your loins like a man, And I will ask you, and you instruct Me! "Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding, Who set its measurements? Since you know. Or who stretched the line on it? "On what were its bases sunk? Or who laid its cornerstone, When the morning stars sang together And all the sons of God shouted for joy? "Or who enclosed the sea with doors When, bursting forth, it went out from the womb; When I made a cloud its garment And thick darkness its swaddling band, And I placed boundaries on it And set a bolt and doors, And I said, 'Thus far you shall come, but no farther; And here shall your proud waves stop'? "Have you ever in your life commanded the morning, And caused the dawn to know its place, That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, And the wicked be shaken out of it? "It is changed like clay under the seal; And they stand forth like a garment. "From the wicked their light is withheld, And the uplifted arm is broken. blessings abound, bowler |
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24 | Offended by a Christian | Matt 18:35 | bowler | 207894 | ||
Milen Very often those who keep on sinning are not going to listen to you anyway, they are convinced they are doing okay and that their sins are automatically forgiven by God. Here is a scripture you might be able to use to refute his constant referring to Mathew 18:35 as a reason why he keeps on going. But he might never stop sinning in this way you are describing. 1 John 3:5-10 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother. Here is another scripture about reprimanding those who are suppossedly believers who don't listen. Mathew 18:15-17 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. "But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. "If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. This might be of use in refuting his claims on forgiveness. 2 Timothy 3:1-5 But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these. Hope this helps. blessings abound, bowler |
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25 | Why is death God's enemy? | 1 Cor 15:25 | bowler | 207789 | ||
Doc, Very interesting post there Doc. I learned it this way - Supralapsarianism - the fourth one is scripturally wrong. 1 The decree to save some and condemn others. 2 The decree to create both. 3 The decree to premit the fall of both. 4 The decree to provide salvation only for the elect. Infralapsarianism - the fourth one is scripturally wrong. 1 The decree to create human beings. 2 The decree to permit the fall. 3 The decree to save some and condemn others. 4 The decree to provide salvation only for the elect. Subplapsarianism - the third one is scripturally wrong. 1 The decree to create human beings. 2 The decree to permit the fall. 3 The decree to provide salvation sufficient for all. 4 The decree to elect some. Arminianism - the second and the third one are scripturally wrong. 1 God desires all to be saved. 2 All have the ability to believe and to meet the conditions of salvation. 3 God predesitines and elects based on who He knows will choose Him. My Pastor Teacher's Take On It. 1 Man is totally depraved and without God's initiation and intervention no one would believe - the decree to permit the fall. 2 God's foreknowledge means He knew beforehand who would choose but He ordained who would choose - the decree to save some and condemn others. 3 God's election and foreknowledge are not dependant on man's choosing but do not violate man's choosing of his own volition - the foreordination and foreknowledge of God do not absolve man of the responsibility to choose. 4 God's choosing and calling are not by coercion or force but by persuasion - God draws men wooeing them to Him by perusasion. 5 Christ's death was to provide salvation for all men but not all men are called to salvation - the decree to provide the opportunity for salvation to absolutely everybody does not mean God will save all. 6 All are welcome to come but only those who respond according to God's foreordination by irresistible grace come - the decree that all have been offered salvation but only some are foreordained and drawn by irresistible grace. 7 Where scripture stops so must we some things about the eternal purposes of God have not been revealed to us - whatever we do not understand about 1-6 has not been revealed to us in scripture and should not presuppose that we can speculate as to how to reconcile seeming contradictions which are not contradictory but are facets of God's will and plan. Job 42:2 I know that you can do all things, and that no purpose of Yours can be thwarted. Romans 11:33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! blessings abound, bowler blessinsg abound, bowler |
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26 | once saved always saved? | John 10:28 | bowler | 207766 | ||
Azure, I was away sorry for the long delay in answering you. Why I do believe you are right in one sense and so am I! Question; could a person repent to God the Father without having "faith in Jesus for the forgiveness of their sins"? I doubt it. Which is more what I meant by saying you should repent to Jesus. So many people think they are saved who repented to God, but did not do it in the name of Jesus, do not believe in Jesus and so on - that is what I was referring to, that a person should not just repent to the Father and leave Jesus out of the picture. On the other hand if you repent to Jesus alone, He and the Father are one, you are repenting to God the Father through faith in Jesus. I think what I was trying to say and what you are saying actually kind of go together. But I do see what you are saying that the model we find in the Bible is repenting to the Father in the name of Jesus. John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." blessings abound, bowler |
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27 | Why is death God's enemy? | 1 Cor 15:25 | bowler | 207765 | ||
Doc Well thank you very much for that! I agree with everything I read in the this essay exept I had one itsy bitsy problem with the concept of resolving the whole she-bang with Supralapsarianism. The reason is only one, the last part of that view, not in the article, but in the view itself, states that the decree to provide salvation was only for the elect. Yet, the Bible gives us scriptures stating that Christ's death was for the whole world and so on. I do agree with the concepts of irresistible grace and with God's sovereign election of men to be saved. I personally have just never been able to reconcile those scriptures which state that to many is given the offer of salvation but few are called, with that, Jesus died for the whole world. I believe both are true, but that we can't understand the theology of how God does that, as they are not contradictory, but both are true. Thanks again for a wonderful link. 1 John 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world. Mathew 22:14 "For many are called, but few are chosen." blessings abound, bowler |
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28 | Heb6:4-6 Loosing salvation or what? | Heb 6:4 | bowler | 207743 | ||
Beja I rushed back in the house because I just realized what you might have thought the barb was!!!! My little verse in signing off on that last note I posted you goes to "context"! It was not meant as anything but a clue to you. I will read the whole thing including Tim Moran's "solution". blessings abound, bowler |
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29 | Heb6:4-6 Loosing salvation or what? | Heb 6:4 | bowler | 207738 | ||
Beja Oh my Jesus, I meant no such barb to you, having truly, as I said, I have not yet had a chance to read the whole "thread" as you call it. I am truly dissapointed about this I really had something constructive to say to you, and not in the way of telling you that you "do not truly believe in once saved, always saved", and not in the way of "getting you to see the truth" either. I am highly dissapointed, I must say by the content of your post here, but not at all in you, or any one else, but that somehow a purely exegetical question asked on the grounds of using critical forms to deduce a satisfying conclusion somehow digressed from your seeming intent into something, I don't know. I truly apologoze to you and anyone I may have inadvertantly offended, I have not as yet read all of the "thread". I simply choose some notes and answers to read and a very few of your repplies to try to see the jist of what got discussed. I have been gone for three days and had not at all seen this until I got back late last night from our annual church retreat. I am sorry myself, again, to see this post, you had very valid grammatical and historical concerns about this text and made it clear in the beginning your intent; that this was not about whether or not you believe the truth, because you do, but that it was about "getting to the heart of the true context", which I wanted to discuss with you today! I may actually have an answer for that! Alas! I will read the whole thread to try and understand what happened. But, I will respect your wishes and leave off posting at all about it with you, and for that matter with anyone else out of respect. I would like you to consider, just so you may know that I meant no barb to you, post number 207418, as to my intent in wanting to post to you. I would also like to know is there some way off line from here we could communicate about this? I also believe the same thing you do about this passage and have a valid Bible study concern for getting the context first in order to try to see what a passage is really talking about, and based on that have one solution for you. I also have another site for you where you could discuss things like this on the level you have been trying to do, where exegesis in an orthodox sense of that term is the point of all discussions. 2 Timothy 2:15 Be diligent to present yourself approved of God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. Ephesians 4:3 Being diligent to preserve the unity of the body in the Spirit in the bond of peace. blessings abound, bowler |
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30 | Heb6:4-6 Loosing salvation or what? | Heb 6:4 | bowler | 207726 | ||
Doc I read a lot through the hats issue, but if you have it could you please provide a branch number for this issue of hats as "Yes, it is easier to discuss the practice of gender dependent hat wearing than it is to deal with the whole question of submission in chapter 11". I read a lot about hats before posting beja with an intention to reply to him for the first time on his issue here. I could not seem to find a discussion centering on what you mention here. Could you help me out?:-) John 14:16 I will ask the Father, and He will give another Helper, that He may be with you forever. blessings abound, bowler |
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31 | Heb6:4-6 Loosing salvation or what? | Heb 6:4 | bowler | 207721 | ||
Beja, I have read about half this branch and will take the time to reply to you tommorrow sometime first after church. I will address you regarding the criteria in your original question and how you broke that down again and again later through the thread. I promise to read the whole thread first. I plan to give you two scenarios, perhaps, most likely in different posts; one of how it means to some that you can lose your salvation, and a second one giving you a new alternative the the IF/THEN "problem". I promise to take the time to be careful to address your concerns as best I can, as I can see everyone most diligently did also do. I would like to add my two cents. Hebrews 5:11 Concering him we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. blessings abound, bowler |
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32 | Death God's friend or enemy? | 1 Cor 15:25 | bowler | 207524 | ||
Flintyjoe Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Acts 2:23 this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death. Jesus was definitely a "Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" - as in God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit, "foreknew" from the foundation of the world that He would be slain. That is the concept that Mathew Henry is talking about, it is not a twisting or mis-representation of Revelation 13:8, it is correct because there is not one thing that can happen that is not foreknown by God "from the foundation of the world" as definitely going to happen. As someone pointed out to you before, you have no way of knowing if Adam made it to heaven or not because the Bible does not say that he did or did not make it, like say in the case of Enoch, or Elijah, or Abraham. We cannot assume things the Bible does not say, and just because it does not say Adam made into heaven, that does not mean he didn't. The only one who knows, even of the so called saints, who makes it into heaven is God Himself. The logic of your first statement is a little wanting. The first time you spank a child does he know just because you tell him you will do it if he is bad what a spanking means? I have to wonder how Adam could know what death meant since there was none to observe as a way to understand what that was? I am not saying he did not know, but the Bible does not tell us how he knew what it meant. What bothers me about trying to figure that part out is that wouldn't knowing what death is be part of "the knowledge of good and evil", as death is part of evil? I realize my reasoning here creates a big problem because God is indeed just and he told Adam he would die to warn him not to get in the position to have to die. But, the Bible does not give us a clue how Adam could know what that mean in any capacity as he could not know the difference between good and evil - as that the knowledge of good and evil would be necessary to understand what it means? Just a thought there to complicate the whole she-bang for you.:-) Genesis 2:16 The Lord God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat of it, for in the day that you eat from it you shall surely die." blessings abound, bowler |
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33 | Death God's friend or enemy? | 1 Cor 15:25 | bowler | 207521 | ||
Doc By uiversalism do you mean the concept that "everyone, absolutely everyone" will be saved whether they repented to Jesus or not and took Him as savior? I am trying to see how Flintyjoe could be into "unversalism" after posting sometime up above that "those who never repent and get bad hearts don't go to heaven"? I have heard of universalism, I think before, but am not quite sure what you mean exactly by the term. 1 Corinthians 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you thinks that he is wise in this age, he must become wise in this age, he must become foolish. blessings abound, bowler |
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34 | Why is death God's enemy? | 1 Cor 15:25 | bowler | 207520 | ||
Doc I actually have reviewed what I said and agree with your statement here that to say what God had foreknowledge of and allowed to happen "was not in God's plan" is problematic. I also strongly agree that there was never a plan "B". But somewhere here there needs to be a disticntion between what God allows to happen, as in God allows evil and death, but is not the author of them (is God the author of death?) - and that God foreknows "what" will happen. I agree God is sovereign, not one thing happens to a sparrow without His consent - which point I did make, that nothing happens without His allowing it to happen. I think this blunders into the area of God fore-ordaining things to happen, if I am correct, which is a "problematic" area altogether anyway. If you would care to comment on that aspect some illumination might be had here? 1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God. For it is written, He is the one who catches the wise in their craftiness. - in regards to worldly knowledge in the face of the mind and purpose of God. blessings abound, bowler |
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35 | Death God's friend or enemy? | 1 Cor 15:25 | bowler | 207519 | ||
Doc I never meant to imply that those rules should be applied to this forum. Also a lot of those debates between individuals were quite public. As well, I never meant to imply that the rules of the forum should be changed (you did not say that). The one thing that those "debates" had in common with our present responsibilities is that we should indeed defend what we believe as they most certainly did, without worrying that our beliefs will offend someone, which they most certainly never worried about. That is the main reason I posted what I did, because I agree with you about your point here regarding being dogs who bark when our master is attacked. 1 Corinthians 1:22, 23 For indeed Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; but we preach Christ cricified, to Jews a stumbling block, adn to Gentiles foolishness. blessings abound, bowler |
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36 | Why is death God's enemy? | 1 Cor 15:25 | bowler | 207512 | ||
Immanuelsown I do believe the concept of God having foreknowledge of all things happening may qualify as Him "allowing all things to happen", which thing is different than what He wills to happen. God foreknew that we would sin and death would come, but He did not authorize Satan to go an introduce the concept of sin to Adam and Eve - that would be evil on the part of God. God does not will evil to happen. As death will be thrown into the Lake of Fire, we can assume death is evil. Therefore death could not possibly be part of God's "plan". God allows plenty of things to happen that are not "His plan and purpose for mankind". Jesus says this "Therefore when you see the Abomination of Desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place, etc.". Jesus foreknew as God what would happen, not just because Daniel said it, but because He as God was saying it. Jesus knew that this event would happen, the event must happen, is allowed to happen, but it is an evil thing. It is not Jesus' will for it to happen, it is Satan's will for it to happen. Satan cannot decide if what he wills can happen, he can only attempt things. God can and does decide what to allow to happen, but evil happening is not "the will of God", it is the allowance of God that whoever should rebel against Him should be free to do so and pay the consequences. Death is a consequence of Adam and Eve's choice to sin, God allowed them to sin, but not as His will, only as His allowing something to be able to happen. Revelation 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. blessings abound, bowler |
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37 | Death God's friend or enemy? | 1 Cor 15:25 | bowler | 207511 | ||
Doc There was once the concept of "the gentlemen's debate" for many centuries in which divers individuals would sit and discuss at length matters of the day and matters of depth. And in these debates there were certain rules of conduct and deportment fitting of gentlemen; The debates were polite, all veiws were to be discussed without reservation. Support for a position was to be provided using reason and logic as a means of dissembling information. The word argument referred strictly to the art of building and presenting a case of evidence for a position and had nothing whatsoever to do with being "argumentative with a disposition towards the use of words to inflict injury or insult". Men presented their arguments point by point or in sections and their opponents either agreed or refuted these arguments point by point. It was assumed that freedom of thought was to be expressed, but, no one was called upon or expected to agree, or to give creednce to, or to tolerate, the thoughts of those they disagreed with. This would have abrogated a man's right to believe as he pleased and to fully express his belief. The thoughts of others were never censured but were roundly debated. The debates often became heated over important matters but no one took it personaly per se but rather respected the right of others to express their thoughts with a certain fervor. Gentlemen would part to continue debates or arguments another day, ammicably and often resolved issues by agreeing to disagree. Hands were shook in the spirit of commararderie amongst gentlemen regarding the art of debate. Debate was not viewed as a dirty word, and was considered to be an accademic pursuit. The spirit of debate was an effort to arrive at a conclusion to a question posed, or a theory, or an hypothesis posited, in a reasonable and acceptable fashion as described here. This practice was applied to all things academic, and religion and philosophy were considered to be matters of highest accademia. The entire concept of the gentlemen's debate has been lost in a quest for "tolerance of the belief's of others" in modern society, which grew out of the secular movement, the liberation theology movement, feminism, "gay pride", and other movements both political and philosphic in nature. This is a deplorable situation in society today. And as D.A. Carson says, "Exclusiveness is the one religious idea that cannot be tolerated. Correspondingly, proselytism is a dirty word.". Well I seem to have gotton off on a bit of a tangent here, but I was very interested in everything you had to say. I think all Christians should stand by what they believe, whatever it is, and be ready to defend it. That should not be viewed as "debating" in the sense that modern society now views that word. The way that is viewed today is completely skewed and is slanted towards the use of insult and injury to persons. But if anyone were to look the meaning of the word up, that is before they change the dictionaries again, they might find that one meaning is a lengthy exchange of opinion on a subject. We, however are Christians and our wisdom is Christ Jesus. I like what Paul says about part of the realm of ideas - 2 Corinthians 10:5 We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ. blessings abound, bowler |
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38 | Death God's friend or enemy? | 1 Cor 15:25 | bowler | 207510 | ||
Doc I read a lot of what you had to say to one Pastor Glenn I may freely assume that you view the use of the words "spirit" and "soul" in 1 Thessalonians 5:23 and Hebrews 4:12 to be interchangeable. I am trying hard to see this. I see from your posts on this that you view the concpet of Trichotism to be an invention of the Greek philosophers. I am wondering since two NT writers bothered to separate the words soul, spirit with the use of the word "and", and seeing as how they chose to use two different Greek words there is no such thing as a trichotimist view as being "Biblical", rather than as "Greek". How are we to say that the writers of the NT meant to use them interchangeably while in the same sentence used as two different aspects of the human spiritual essence? I saw your explanation that the "division of the soul and the spirit" means both were divided, as in searched out (bad paraphrase), rather than divided from one another. However, the writers of the NT did not say that both were divided in themselves but from one another, as if there were two things being put assunder from one another. Granted this is only found in two NT sources and that the case for dichotism if far stronger throughout the OT. Perhaps you could point me to some other posts than the long one I read all of with Pastor Glenn in it, if you don't feel like getting into this again. I happen to agree with your assessment, not as if you needed me to, but I do, that tolerance of people should be separated from tolerance of ideas. 1 Corinthians 1:20 Where is the wise man? Where is the Scribe? Where is the debator of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? blessings abound, bowler |
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39 | once saved always saved? | John 10:28 | bowler | 207503 | ||
Progolfer190 I am trying to follow your logic and here and I am not suceeding. You said the following - "I don't think so because you can die without repenting of your sins ad getting a bad heart and (i believe) go to hell but if you repent of your sins at the end of your life and you die with a good heart then you will go to heaven." In response to - "once saved always saved?" I am trying to break down what you are saying into parts here - "because you can die without repenting of your sins" This begs the question; How in the world could you get to heaven unless you did repent of your sins and take Jesus Christ as your savior and Lord? Is there some other way to get to heaven than to do that? Is it that you believe that you get saved sometime early in life, or at all, and then because you don't repent of your sins after that "event" when you got saved, that you will "get a bad heart" and go to hell? How does that work really? Is it really possible that a Christian who is truly saved would not repent of their sins on an ongoing basis, is that a Christian? The whole premise of salvation is that the human heart is infinitely wicked and we cannot get to heaven becuase "we have a good heart" becuase we don't have one. Once saved always saved means that once you repent of your sins to Jesus alone, nobody else, not His mother, not to God the Father, not to the Holy Spirit, not to the dead saints, or live angels, but just to Jesus - once you do that for real with a sincere heart, your salvation is complete. There is no waiting around until we see how good you lived when you finally die, or waiting for a man to tell you you are saved after you pray a certain way and go to him to repent of your sins. Salvation is a work of Christ, not of you - you don't have the power to effect salvation by your good works or your bad works, it is not possible, that is why Christ had to do it. The way to salvation is simple; believe Jesus is God, repent of your sins, confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord, believe in your heart that He died and rose from the dead and you will be saved. There is no such thing as getting saved and then going to your death and not making it to heaven, it doesn't work that way. Ephesians 1:7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace. blessings abound, bowler |
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40 | Why were they called wise/foolish virgin | Matthew | bowler | 207502 | ||
son of god I am well aware that a virgin in the Bible is the designation of all unmarried women! I was not making "the designation that virgin has anything to do with sex". I was making the point that a virgin by virtue of the definition of the word virign is not one who has sex, or else they would cease to be one... My mind was not in the gutter; I tried to use sound reasoning to demonstrate that the foolish virgins were foolish because they did not get ready for Jesus to come, and I demonstrated before hand that their virginity was never the issue becuase that is not a possiblity, a virgin is a virgin. I don't know if you can see the difference now, between what you are saying in your post here, and what I was trying to convey in my previous post? That it is impossible for the foolish virgins to be foolish for the reasons the original questioner answered their own post with? Mathew 25:32 All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. blessings abound, bowler |
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