Results 41 - 48 of 48
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Results from: Notes Author: Zsuzsi Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
41 | Peace...? | 2 Tim 2:15 | Zsuzsi | 121855 | ||
Hi Justme, Thank you for your response, it was respectful and kind indeed. Thank you for your blessing as well! I also think there are differences between your theology and mine... But as a 16-year-old I am really no-one to argue with someone as knowledgeable as you about such issues. I was so concerned with this issue since it is something very close to me. I have updated my personal profile, have a look if you are interested in knowing where I come from etc. For many years I myself felt invited by the Lord to get closer to Him, to live for/in/by/with Him. It's been a great struggle for me to discern if indeed it was His calling... I actually believe the question is not whether we are called but what we are called to do: "to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it." (Eph 4:7) In other words, God does not call the equipped, but equips the called. (Hebrews 13:20-21) According to my theology, being called and ordained by God does not require anything; being a 'minister' and legally ordained does require study and the approval of the church. I am young but my belief that I am called comes from many hundreds of hours of prayer, service and study, by now I know it is definitely not a temporary feeling or mere interest! Many Christians I have met from different denominations confirmed this... Thanks to a few supportive friends of mine, now I am learning Hebrew and Greek, systematic theology, counselling, missions theory, practical theology and church history. I am not yet qualified for earning a degree in theology,however, because as I said, I am only 16 and I have one more year of high school before I graduate. Although it is against the will of most people who have 'authority' over me, I will go through all that is needed to be properly 'ordained', for it is neither God's will nor mine to try to do it in any 'easy way'. I will pray, wait and study: right now I am too young and know little. But I am convinced of the calling and I know that I am already 'ordained' by God, who -I believe- possesses all authority to so 'ordain' anyone of His choice at any age. I have hope, faith and trust that the Holy Spirit is leading me; for the rest, "I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me." 1Cor 4:3-4 You wrote I was 'standing behind' and 'defending' ourfathersheart - but please have a look at my first response to him: I did not approve of him ordaining or giving degrees to others either; I actually said he had no authority to do so. I also suggested learning as a solution to his problem. (See the supporting passage I chose, and 2Tim 3:16-18) Could you please specify what 'serious errors' I approved of? Nevertheless I believe any Christian can intercede for others and to bless them, it cannot be against God's will. This person claimed to love the Lord, and I do not believe it is anyone else's job to decide if he was honest or not. What is our job is rather to help him into seeing what is good in God's sight and what is not... We are allowed to tell him that it is not biblical to ordain or give degrees to anyone without being authorized; we are allowed to warn against sin, pride or bigotry, and to make him understand the meaning of being called; but I do not think we can question the existence of a calling for a person who says 'I live only for Him'. Yes, maybe he is lying; but even so, it is not our job to execute judgment. Maybe I am wrong, but I believe certain gifts of the Holy Spirit are necessary for ministry; those who do not have them fail and get weary of it very quickly. My sincere belief is that only fulfilling our calling will please God and satisfy our soul; trying to do things which we are not called to do, or refusing to do things which we are called to do, may give a feeling of temporary pleasure, but in the long run, will make us dissatisfied with ourselves and with the world. Only when we are following our calling can we say: "I delight to do Your will, O my God; Your Law is within my heart." Psalm 40:8 Jesus said we would know the false prophets by their fruit (Mt 7:15-20); but false doctrines "promote controversies rather than God's work" (1Tim 1:4). Jesus clearly stated, though: "whoever is not against us is for us." (Mk 9:40) I also believe that whatever position we take up in church, we should remain servants of Christ, and not try to become lords of men. "For he who is least among [us] all – he is the greatest" Luke 9:48. Of course you do not have to agree with me. If you are interested, I can tell you more about my theology, and we can discuss our beliefs on different issues. I will post my views about 'lone rangers' in another thread. God bless you, and thanks again for your reply, Zsuzsi |
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42 | Peace...? | 2 Tim 2:15 | Zsuzsi | 121859 | ||
Thank you, Emmaus. To me it seems these passages are expressing the importance of accepting the need for all parts of the body to do their own job. Eg. all parts must recognize that the body does not function without all of them being co-ordinated with the other parts. But the eye has to do its job by itself; the ear cannot substitute for the eye, and cannot tell from another place, 'you are not needed here'. Speaking in 'church-terms', an evangelist, for example, has to do his job by himself, a prophet has to allow him, support him and cannot substitute him, because he himself lacks the necessary gift of the Spirit. And of course it works vice versa... We are individually members of Christ's body. As long as there is good co-operation between the different parts, the body will function. If the eye is weak, it is the task of the other parts to support him. But the system definitely breaks down when an ear tries to teach an eye how to see: the eye has to learn it by himself from the Spirit that holds the Body together. The ear might give advice on how to listen, where to look or study, but it cannot teach the eye his task. Although the eye must acknowledge that he is also a member of the Body, in this learning process (spiritual discernment) he is necessarily a 'lone ranger'. That's my thoughts for this now.. Blessings, Zsuzsi |
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43 | Peace...? | 2 Tim 2:15 | Zsuzsi | 121860 | ||
Thank you Tim Moran, I certainly agree! One thing I'd like to add: I believe everyone is called by God - ministry service is just one form of being called. When God chooses a person for His service (that is, 'calls' him), it is Him who first 'ordains'; that happens when the individual accepts God's calling, which can be before the church formally ordains the person. I would liken this to the baptism by the Holy Spirit, which can happen before batism by water (see Acts 10:47). The church cannot substitute God in this ordination, but can only confirm it later on. I.e.: ministry service does not start when the person has the papers but when he has the gifts of the Spirit for it. The significance of ordination by the church is not to 'help' the Holy Spirit give His gifts but as you said, it is 'the Church's recognition and authentication of one's call.' God bless you, Zsuzsi |
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44 | Peace...? | 2 Tim 2:15 | Zsuzsi | 121935 | ||
Thank you so much for this, Justme. I DO love the Lord, very-very much, but I think my parents would be more proud of me if I became a scientist instead of a theologian (both of them are physicists). They actually stated that I am only allowed to study theology afterwards if I also earn a degree in a natural science. But if that's the price, I will pay it... They got divorced when I was 4, since then I have lived with my mother. Right now I see my dad twice a year... We don't go to church and don't pray together; my own family is a mission field for me! But I cannot be proud of my wisdom or knowledge; God freely gave to me everything that I have. "For the LORD gives wisdom, and from his mouth come knowledge and understanding." (Prov 2:6) "Freely you have received, freely give." (Matt 10:8) For me, learning from Him is actually the sweetest thing in the world. :-) "His mouth is sweetness itself; he is altogether lovely." (Song 5:16) I usually start praying and reading the Bible when I go to bed (as a high school student I have very little time for that during the day), and I can be so absorbed in it that sometimes I find myself still awake at half past 3 in the night... Often the Lord Himself needs to remind me that even He slept! But the more I learn about Him, the more I see how little I know. "You have filled my heart with greater joy than when their grain and new wine abound. I will lie down and sleep in peace, for you alone, O LORD, make me dwell in safety." (Psalm 4:7-8) Thank you again for your encouragement and blessings; may God bless you richly too. Your little sister in Christ, Zsuzsi |
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45 | Peace...? | 2 Tim 2:15 | Zsuzsi | 122241 | ||
Thank you for all three of your messages, Kalos. I apologize for not having replied to you personally before, but I thought I answered your earlier comment in my response to Justme. Yes, I absolutely agree, "the church" is the body of Christ - and I also agree that "the church" is never separated from or in conflict with Him. But I think the major question is what we actually mean by "the church"... Is "the church" merely a financial institution to pay the salaries of "ordained" pastors? Is it some political or social authority to enforce certain rules on people? Is "the church" really the legal organization which calls itself "the true church of Christ", condemning to hell all those who do not belong to it? Or is Christ's Church rather the living community of ALL worshippers who belong to the Lord, united in the Spirit of Love, co-operating with one another to build the kingdom of God? Getting a bit more personal about this, do you believe that "the church" or Jesus Himself should forbid me to spread the Gospel to my non-Christian classmates and friends, both in words and actions, just because I am only 16 and have not been 'authorized' by a church in a formal 'ordination' ceremony to do so? I have no certificate in theology (yet) and I possess no legal right whatsoever to claim that I am a 'missionary' or a 'preacher' - but has the Lord not given me authority, or even an obligation, to do my best to make good use of the spiritual gifts He has blessed me with? I do study, to make my service to Him more efficient. But I do not believe it is His will that I (or anyone) should stop 'preaching' just because I am not formally ordained. "So in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man's gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his faith. If it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach; if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is contributing to the needs of others, let him give generously; if it is leadership, let him govern diligently; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully." Romans 12:5-8 "There is one body and one Spirit--just as you were called to one hope when you were called-- one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it." Ephesians 4:4-7 As I said in my reply to Justme, I believe the question is not whether we are called but what we are called to do. I do disapprove of 'Christians' who go about prophesying and teaching things that never came from God, for their own selfish purposes (eg. earning money for their online 'service')... But will their teachings not be futile and controversial because of the absence of God? (1Tim 1:3-7) Additionally, do we not need to be empowered by the Holy Spirit to perservere in doing what God has called us to do? (Isaiah 40:30-31) If someone is not a Christian, he will obviously not go around preaching things about the Bible and Jesus (Mark 9:40). If nevertheless someone is a Christian (by which I mean "born of water and the Spirit" - John 3:5), I trust in the guiding power of the Holy Spirit to convince him of his calling (eg. Philippians 2:13; see also Romans 8). Possessing the gifts of the Holy Ghost is NOT the same as possessing a manmade certificate about it... Being Christian, whether a pastor or a toilet cleaner, is 24-hour service, 365 days a year. Concentrating too much on church formalities and far too little on the Lord Himself has resulted in the painful wounds in Christ's Body... Only when ALL members, not just the ordained pastors, are individually in but not of the world, ALL being made one in the Spirit, will "the" church of Christ function to His good pleasure. Or at least that's what I believe. May God bless you, Zsuzsi |
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46 | Peace...? | 2 Tim 2:15 | Zsuzsi | 122243 | ||
Yes I know... :) I actually love the sciences too; I do see God's design behind them. But I like studying directly about God more than studying indirectly about Him through the sciences... The impressive people you talked about went from God to the sciences; you see, I would rather like to go from the sciences to Him... ;) But it should not be about what I would personally like but what He calls me to do. I am looking forward to walking the path He is showing me! Blessings, Zsuzsi |
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47 | My thoughts | Rev 1:1 | Zsuzsi | 122693 | ||
Here are my thoughts about this verse, as promised: Rev 1:1: "The revelation of (from?) Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John" NIV "This is a revelation from (of?) Jesus Christ, which God gave him concerning the events that will happen soon. An angel was sent to God's servant John so that John could share the revelation with God's other servants." NLT Who revealed, what and to whom? - God the Father revealed what is to come to His Son, Jesus Christ. - Jesus Christ revealed what He heard from the Father to John, by sending an angel to him. - John revealed to the other servants of Christ what Jesus had told him through the angel. C.v: Luke 10:22: "All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows who the Son is except the Father, and no one knows who the Father is except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him." Who is John? Who is he writing to? John, the author of the book, is traditionally identified with the author of the Gospel of John, who is supposedly the 'disciple whom Jesus loved' (John 21:20-24). There is however no clear reference to confirm this in the Book of Revelations. The Greek 'bond-servant' also means 'slave'; so whoever John really was, he was definitely writing exactly what was revealed to him; we can trust that he was writing the truth. (See also Rev 22:18-19.) I would mention that God sent the original message to be disclosed to His [God's] 'bond-servants', not 'believers/bond-servants of Christ'. To me that means two things: 1) People of all ages are included, not only those who lived while Jesus was on earth. So it was meant to be read by us as well, not just the disciples of Jesus living at the time (though the letter is actually sent to the 7 churhces in Asia). 2) Also people of different religions, who claim to be 'bond-servants of God' (eg. Muslims) should be reading this book; as I was saying, John confirmed that he was writing the truth, and his book testifies of Jesus. (I know from experience that one of the greatest possibilities of a missionary is to talk to people about the end of the times - it usually makes them think!) What is 'to come'? The end of the times.. This is what the book is about. :-) What does 'soon/speedily/shortly' mean? Good question! 2000 years have passed and this has not happened yet. But God states that He is the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End (1:8) - my sincere belief is that He is not limited by time as we are. Measurement and perception naturally originate from a comparison of something with something else. We can measure time because we know the difference between 'yesterday' and 'today'; with each second we get closer to our earthly death, so we know how to define time is. But does such a thing exist for an always-existing God? Remember His proper name, 'Yahweh', that is, 'The Existing One' - why that, have you ever wondered? But of course, this is just like the question: "Can the Almighty God create a stone that He Himself cannot lift?" We must accept that He has His own secrets! :-) As for us, our earthly life is rather short in comparison to eternity, so our death is indeed 'soon to come'. If we suppose that by our earthly death, we also stop perceiving time (can no longer die, become the children of resurrection, the children of God, like angels, etc, see Lk 20:35-36), then 'soon' also starts to make sense in this context. How was the revelation 'given' to John? - John reports that the angel, and elders in some places, speak to him, and most of the time he is passively watching all that is happening. - He is commanded throughout about what to and what not to write. (many examples) - He is, like many OT prophets, asked to do certain tasks (eg. eating up the little book, 10:8-9), which possibly help him understand the revelation more as he is personally involved in it. Again, he is given all the tools to write the truth. Rev 1:1 is part of John's prologue for the Book, in it he gives an idea of what he is going to write about, how he received the revelation, who sent it, who it is aimed at, and what purposes God and he [John] had with it. Theoretically it should be studied in the context of Rev 1:1-3... Just by this verse alone it is difficult to say much more than this. Hope this starts some thoughts. Blessings, Zsuzsi |
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48 | My thoughts | Rev 1:1 | Zsuzsi | 122696 | ||
Thanks, Peter22, and welcome to the forum! The passages you chose are really good, all from the Pauline Epistles. But there are also others in the Gospels, and the OT.. I'll only give some more from the NT: (All quotes are from the NIV) Mark 13 is actually all about what Jesus said the end of the times would be like. Mk 13:33: "Be on guard! Be alert! You do not know when that time will come." Mt 24:44 also says, "So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him." For worrying about tomorrow, Jesus said: Mt 6:34: "Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." He also said: Mt 6:33: "But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well." So God takes care of us, including our tomorrow, if we seek His kingdom and righteousness. Death is nothing... It's simply going Home, which we can look forward to. "For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain." Phil 1:21 :-) God bless you, Zsuzsi |
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