Results 41 - 60 of 101
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Results from: Notes Author: Dalcent Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
41 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | Dalcent | 134570 | ||
Continuing… The great Champion of Trinitarian orthodoxy: 360 AD Athanasius "[A]s we are all from earth and die in Adam, so being regenerated from above of water and Spirit, in the Christ we are all quickened" (Four Discourses Against the Arians 3:26[33]). 240 AD Testimonies Concerning the Jews "That unless a man have been baptized and born again, he cannot attain unto the kingdom of God. In the Gospel according to John: 'Except a man be born again of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God [John 3:5] . . . ' Also in the same place: 'Unless ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink His blood, ye shall not have life in you' [John 6:53]. That it is of small account to be baptized and to receive the Eucharist, unless one profit by it both in deeds and works" (Testimonies Concerning the Jews 3:2:25-26). 256 AD Council of Carthage VII "And in the gospel our Lord Jesus Christ spoke with his divine voice, saying, ‘Except a man be born again of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.' . . . Unless therefore they receive saving baptism in the Catholic Church, which is one, they cannot be saved, but will be condemned with the carnal in the judgment of the Lord Christ" (VII Carthage). 110-165AD Martyr "Those who are convinced that what we teach is true and who desire to live accordingly are instructed to fast and to pray to God for the remission of all their past sins. We also pray and fast with them. Then we bring them to a place where there is water, and they are regenerated in the same manner in which we ourselves were regenerated. They then receive the washing with water in the name of God (the Father and Lord of the universe) and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit. For Christ said, 'Unless you are born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven"' [John 3:5]. (Justin First Apology chant 61) 387 AD John Chrysostom "[N]o one can enter into the kingdom of Heaven except he be regenerate through water and the Spirit, and he who does not eat the flesh of the Lord and drink His blood is excluded from eternal life, and if all these things are accomplished only by means of those holy hands, I mean the hands of the priest, how will any one, without these, be able to escape the fire of hell, or to win those crowns which are reserved for the victorious? These [priests] truly are they who are entrusted with the pangs of spiritual travail and the birth which comes through baptism: by their means we put on Christ, and are buried with the Son of God (The Priesthood 3:5-6). 115-188 THEOPHILUS "On the fifth day the living creatures which proceed from the waters were produced, through which also is revealed the manifold wisdom of God in these things; for who could count their multitude and various kinds? Moreover, the things proceeding from the waters were blessed by God, that this also might be a sign of men's being destined to receive repentance and remission of sins, through the water and laver of regeneration, as many as come to the truth, and are born again, and receive blessing from God." (Theophilus, "To Autolycus,", Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 2, pg. 101) 140-230 AD Tertullian "Baptism itself is a corporal act by which we are plunged into the water, while its effect is spiritual, in that we are freed from our sins" (Baptism 7:2). 140-230 AD TERTULLIAN "Happy is our sacrament of water, in that, by washing away the sins of our early blindness, we are set free and admitted into eternal life! A treatise on this matter will not be superfluous; instructing not only such as are just becoming formed in the faith... The consequence is, that a viper of the Cainite heresy, lately conversant in this quarter, has carried away a great number with her most venomous doctrine, making it her first aim to destroy baptism. Which is quite in accordance with nature; for vipers and asps and serpents themselves generally do affect arid and waterless places. But we, little fishes after the example of our ikhthus, Jesus Christ, are born in water, nor have we safety in any other way than by permanently abiding in water; so that most monstrous creature, who had no right to teach even sound doctrine, knew full well how to kill the little fishes, by taking them away from the water!" (On Baptism, Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 3, pg. 669.) 150-200 AD CLEMENT He instituted baptism by water amongst them, in which they might be absolved from all their sins on the invocation of His name." (Clement, "Recognitions of Clement," Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 8, pg. 88) 181 AD Theophilus of Antioch "Moreover, those things which were created from the waters were blessed by God, so that this might also be a sign that men would at a future time receive repentance and remission of sins through water and the bath of regeneration all who proceed to the truth and are born again and receive a blessing from God" (To Autolycus 12:16). |
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42 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | Dalcent | 134571 | ||
More Fathers on Salvation through baptism.... 200 AD Cyprian of Carthage "While I was lying in darkness . . . I thought it indeed difficult and hard to believe . . . that divine mercy was promised for my salvation, so that anyone might be born again and quickened unto a new life by the laver of the saving water, he might put off what he had been before, and, although the structure of the body remained, he might change himself in soul and mind. . . . But afterwards, when the stain of my past life had been washed away by means of the water of rebirth, a light from above poured itself upon my chastened and now pure heart; afterwards, through the Spirit which is breathed from heaven, a second birth made of me a new man" (To Donatus 3) 200 AD HERMAS "And I said, 'I heard, sir, some teachers maintain that there is no other repentance than that which takes place, when we descended into the water and received remission of our former sin.' He said to me, 'That was sound doctrine which you heard; for that is really the case.'" (Hermas, "The Shepherd," Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 2, pg. 22) 200-258 AD CYPRIAN By which is also signified the very baptism of saving water, which indeed is once received, and is not again repeated.." (Cyprian, "The Epistles of Cyprian," Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 5, pg. 360) 340 AD Aphraahat the Persian Sage "From baptism we receive the Spirit of Christ. At that same moment in which the priests invoke the Spirit, heaven opens, and he descends and rests upon the waters, and those who are baptized are clothed in him. The Spirit is absent from all those who are born of the flesh, until they come to the water of rebirth, and then they receive the Holy Spirit. . . . [I]n the second birth, that through baptism, they receive the Holy Spirit" (Treatises 6:14:4). 345 AD CYRIL "When going down, therefore, into the water, think not of the bare element, but look for salvation by the power of the Holy Ghost: for without both thou canst not possibly be made perfect. It is not I that say this, but the Lord Jesus Christ, who has the power in this matter: for He saith, 'Except a man be born anew' (and he adds the words) 'of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.' Neither doth he that is baptized with water, but not found worthy of the Spirit, receive the grace in perfection. Nor if a man be virtuous in his deeds, but receive not the seal by water, shall he enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Cyril of Jerusalem, "Catechetical Lectures," Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, vol. 7, pg. 15.) 350 AD Cyril of Jerusalem "If any man does not receive baptism, he does not have salvation. The only exception is the martyrs, who, even without water, will receive baptism, for the Savior calls martyrdom a baptism [Mark 10:38]. . . . Bearing your sins, you go down into the water; but the calling down of grace seals your soul and does not permit that you afterwards be swallowed up by the fearsome dragon. You go down dead in your sins, and you come up made alive in righteousness" (Catechetical Lectures 3:10, 12). 381 AD Ambrose of Milan "The Church was redeemed at the price of Christ's blood. Jew or Greek, it makes no difference; but if he has believed, he must circumcise himself from his sins [in baptism (Col. 2:11-12)] so that he can be saved . . . for no one ascends into the kingdom of heaven except through the sacrament of baptism. . . . ‘Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God'" (Abraham 2:11:79-84). 387 AD John Chrysostom "[N]o one can enter into the kingdom of Heaven except he be regenerate through water and the Spirit, and he who does not eat the flesh of the Lord and drink His blood is excluded from eternal life, and if all these things are accomplished only by means of those holy hands, I mean the hands of the priest, how will any one, without these, be able to escape the fire of hell, or to win those crowns which are reserved for the victorious? These [priests] truly are they who are entrusted with the pangs of spiritual travail and the birth which comes through baptism: by their means we put on Christ, and are buried with the Son of God, and become members of that blessed Head" (The Priesthood 3:5-6). ULTIMATELY WHAT GREATER TESTAMENT TO ORTHODOXY IS THERE THAN THE NICENE CREED: 381 AD Council of Constantinople I "We believe . . . in one baptism for the remission of sins" (Nicene Creed). Dalcent |
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43 | John Chrysostom | John 3:5 | Dalcent | 134593 | ||
Are you a visiting rationalist? How can it be impossible for anyone to eat the flesh of the Lord and drink His blood. God does what he pleases. Consider, 1Co 11:27 Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. If the bread and wine are only symbolic how can eating it unworthily PROFANE the body and blood of the Lord? Justin the Martyr and indeed other martyrs of the period clearly taught this (as does scripture). Are the Christian martyrs, the seed of the Church, false teachers? Regards Dalcent |
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44 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | Dalcent | 134596 | ||
Dear Tim, I will attempt to answer your questions about Acts 10 and Gal 3:27 in due course. I am not ignoring them; I am going out soon. Some of the verses I gave alongside Gal 3:27 paired baptism with burial which I would argue is more clearly immersion baptism in water. Best Wishes Dalcent |
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45 | John Chrysostom | John 3:5 | Dalcent | 134598 | ||
I just go by the words of Christ: Joh 6:55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. |
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46 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | Dalcent | 134698 | ||
Hi there, Quite a few of the quotes are variants of John 3:5, although I admit they were rather a lot to trawl through. One interesting point is that the quotations usually have BORN AGAIN of water and the Spirit. Which I think would be harder to dispute. This is a matter of textual criticism. My old Douay Rheims renders John 3:5 born-again, as it is translated from the Latin. Also these writers of antiquity all seem to follow that rendering. Think how early Irenaeus is. Jerome translated the Latin Vulgate from NT texts that are much older than we possess now so perhaps this rendering is right. The Codex Sinaiticus is from the end of the fourth century. Jerome may have been using texts hundreds of years old. Certainly we consider the Vulgate an important resource for that reason. Furthermore I still can't see why Act 10:47 doesn’t answer your question. Then Peter answered: Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, who have received the Holy Ghost, as well as we? (If the verse only had ‘water’ and not later confirmation this was baptism why would you have to accept it was referring to baptism? It would be another John 3:5) Can any man forbid water... Can any man forbid baptism... ...that these should not be baptized He is using water as a synonym for baptism. Your brother in Christ Dalcent These 7 quotes definitely understand John 3:5 as water baptism: 190 AD Irenaeus of Lyons "‘And [Naaman] dipped himself . . . seven times in the Jordan' [2 Kgs. 5:14]. It was not for nothing that Naaman of old, when suffering from leprosy, was purified upon his being baptized, but [this served] as an indication to us. For as we are lepers in sin, we are made clean, by means of the sacred water and the invocation of the Lord, from our old transgressions, being spiritually regenerated as new-born babes, even as the Lord has declared: ‘Except a man be born again through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven'" (Fragment 34). 140-230 AD TERTULLIAN "The prescript is laid down that 'without baptism, salvation is attainable by none' chiefly on the ground of that declaration of the Lord, who says, 'Unless one be born of water, he hath not life.'" (On Baptism, Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 3, pg. 674-675) 150-200 AD CLEMENT For thus hath the true prophet testified to us with an oath: 'Verily I say to you, That unless a man is born again of water, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.' (Clement, "Recognitions of Clement," Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 8, pg. 155 200-258 AD CARTHAGE Nemesianus of Thubunae 'Except a man be born again of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.' This is the Spirit which from the beginning was borne over the waters; for neither can the Spirit operate without the water, nor the water without the Spirit." ("The Seventh Council of Carthage Under Cyprian," Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 5, pg. 566.) 200-258 AD CYPRIAN ...baptism of the holy Church, by divine regeneration, for the kingdom of God, may be born of both sacraments, because it is written, 'Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.'" (Cyprian, "The Epistles of Cyprian," Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 5, pg. 384) 203 AD Tertullian "[N]o one can attain salvation without baptism, especially in view of the declaration of the Lord, who says, ‘Unless a man shall be born of water, he shall not have life'" (Baptism 12:1). (surely he is quoting from John 3:5). 240 AD Testimonies Concerning the Jews "That unless a man have been baptized and born again, he cannot attain unto the kingdom of God. In the Gospel according to John: 'Except a man be born again of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God [John 3:5] |
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47 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | Dalcent | 134737 | ||
Tertullian became a Montanist later. It was after the year 206 that he joined the Montanist sect, and he seems to have definitively separated from the Church about 211 (Harnack) or 213 (Monceaux). After writing more virulently against the Church than even against heathen and persecutors, he separated from the Montanists and founded a sect of his own. The remnant of the Tertullianists was reconciled to the Church by St. Augustine. His orthodox writings are held in great esteem although I guess that because he left the Catholic Church that is why he never was honoured as a a saint. No Church father is considered authortive by the Church of Rome, only the bishops in ecumenical council. Nevertheless early patristic consensus is inportant in showing how the early Chistian writers understood scripture; there were no evangelicals! The events of Acts 10:47ff are entirely unique in that they divinely justified the acceptance of the Gentiles into the Church to Jewish Christians. As unique as the tongues of fire on the day of Pentecost. The thief on the cross is another unique circumstance. It is more important to establish the pattern for the 'normal Christian birth.' The Catholic Church only teaches that baptism is the normative pattern of regeneration, and that God is not limited in this respect. They have always taught the efficacy of the baptism of desire, and the baptism of blood as exceptional cases of regeneration. The events of Acts 10 were to prove to the Jewish Christians God accepted the Gentiles in a one off way. It is interesting to note that the Holy Spirit 'fell' on the listeners of Peter's sermon; there is no mention of any altar call or born-again prayer. Dalcent |
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48 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | Dalcent | 134741 | ||
It is fascinating to the student of theology, and those who charge the Catholic Church with error to compare our beliefs with those Churches who broke off after the Council of Chalecedon 451, viz. the Monophysite or (more politically correct these days) the non-Chalcedonians. Most importantly the great historical patriarchate of Alexandria. We have such a Church in my city of London, viz. of Egyptian Coptic Christians who I have enjoyed visiting. You will find they hold virtually all the distinctives of Catholicism despite being entirely separate for 1565 years. The accusation of Catholicism's "errors" belonging to the medieval period is sheer myth and examining these Christians will put that lie to rest. Their website is http://www.stmark.org.uk/flashpage.htm |
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49 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | Dalcent | 134859 | ||
Dear Tim, Your comment 'we do not earn our salvation based upon anything that we do, nor can we lose our salvation based upon anything that we do' sure doesn't jump out at me as a statement that mirrors any passage of scripture. It requires an interesting interpretation on verses which talk of the last state of that person is worse than before he had believed, 'saving a soul from death' etc. As a Catholic, we would tend to believe: a serious mortal sin and rejection of Christ often go hand in hand, and it would be artificial to separate them. The unrepentant sinner, say a murderer or adulterer, cannot bear to face God and turns away. The mortal sin usually kills the believing faith in its tracks. Your 5th point says something akin to this). Faith will fade right away if you are deeply into the worse sins, even if you go through the motions externally to those in your Church. As regards the Catholic-Lutheran Declaration, it is not a agreement in full but a statement which shows that there are many common areas in the understanding of Justification. Certainly, the popular view held by many 'ordinary' evangelicals is simply false: viz. we believe in works-salvation not Christ's atonement. This is thanks mainly to the anti-Catholic slanders published by Dave Hunt, Jack Chick, Bart Brewer, Ralph Woodrow, etc. I have read your statements of faith at www.nazarene.org and must say you are far closer to the full revelation than the type of evangelicals I know (and was). Dalcent |
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50 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | Dalcent | 134949 | ||
Dear Tim, You ask which specific verses I am thinking of: verses which talk of the last state of that person is worse than before he had believed, 'saving a soul from death' etc. I thought the verses quoted were so well known as not to need referencing. Anyway they where from: 2Pe 2:20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. Jam 5:19 My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, Jam 5:20 let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins. I eagerly await your assessment of my quotes but I'm insisting that 'a brother who wanders from the truth' and the one who has 'escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ' are obviously Christians. Furthermore, a soul NOT saved from death, or 'the last state has become worse for them than the first' does not sound good. Your brother in Christ Best Regards Dalcent |
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51 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | Dalcent | 134950 | ||
Dear Doc, Tertullian is just one of myriads of Church fathers saying the same thing so what does it matter? The events of Acts 10 provided a SIGN to the Church that the Gentiles could be included in the Christian fold. Why does such a sign have to constitute the normative doctrine of Christian initiation. Catholics teach the normative method of Christian initiation is faith AND baptism. They do not insist that one must be baptised. It beggars belief that over and over and over again new Christians are baptized as and when they become Christians, and yet a whole wing of the Christian Church insists that the 'bible-way' is to pray Jesus into your heart. They know full well this is not described in the Bible. I'm impressed you realise the first hundreds of years of the Christian faith wasn't even slightly akin to the evangelical Church. Many evangelicals name drop fathers such as Ireneaus, Origen and Athanasius as if these men weren't Catholics! Dalcent If only: Act 8:36 And as they were going along the road, and the eunuch said, "What prevents me from praying Jesus into my heart?" Act 8:12 But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they prayed Jesus into their heart, both men and women. Act 8:13 Even Simon himself believed, and after praying Jesus into his heart he continued with Philip. And seeing signs and great miracles performed, he was amazed. Act 2:38 And Peter said to them, "Repent and be praying Jesus into your heart every one of you for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Act 2:41 So those who received his word prayed Jesus into their heart, and there were added that day about three thousand souls. 1Pe 3:21 Praying Jesus into your heart, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, Gal 3:27 For as many of you as prayed Jesus into your hearts have put on Christ. 1Co 1:14 I thank God that I led none of you in the sinner's prayer except Crispus and Gaius, Act 22:16 And now why do you wait? Rise and pray the sinner's prayer and wash away your sins, calling on his name.' Act 19:5 On hearing this, they were prayed the sinner's prayer of the Lord Jesus. Act 18:8 Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed in the Lord, together with his entire household. And many of the Corinthians hearing Paul believed and prayed Jesus into their hearts. Act 16:33 And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their wounds; and he prayed the sinners prayer at once, he and all his family. Act 16:15 And after she asked Jesus into her heart, and her household as well, she urged us, saying, "If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay." And she prevailed upon us. Act 10:48 And he commanded them to pray the born-again prayer of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days. Act 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water, Philip and the eunuch, and he led him in the sinner's prayer. |
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52 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | Dalcent | 134987 | ||
Dear Tim, Catholics certainly say Baptism is necessary but go on to explain that this statement is not absolute. This page from their Catechism is the official stance of the Church, which I am perfectly happy with: VI. The Necessity of Baptism 1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation. He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them. Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament. The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are "reborn of water and the Spirit." God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments. 1258 The Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received Baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This Baptism of blood, like the desire for Baptism, brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament. 1259 For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament. 1260 "Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery." Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity. 1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them," allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church's call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism. http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P3M.HTM Dalcent |
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53 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | Dalcent | 134999 | ||
Dear Tim, The statement "The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation." is based I believe on John 3:5 - which we have all discussed rather a lot lately. What are you feelings on whether John 3:22's "After this" refers to the passage vv.1-21. Jesus (or rather his disciples) baptizes following the discourse; Jesus baptising occurs nowhere else in the NT. Personally I do not think this is a coincidence. You can read my Profile if you like which I just posted! Your Brother in Christ Dalcent |
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54 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | Dalcent | 135022 | ||
Hi Tim, Yes I live in the same Notting Hill as the movie. I once got asked by a confused Japanese tourist where the tourist attractions of Notting Hill were. I had to break it to him that it is just a residential area. Anyway I directed him to the famous 'blue door'. We have quite a few rich American celebrities who live round here. I agree that John 3:5 does not provide conclusive proof of the Catholic or traditional doctrine of baptismal regeneration. However, my belief is that the nascent Church held a body of scriptural interpretations: some doctrines are only in the scriptures in kernel form (such as the trinity, which took nearly 300 years to be understood and explicated yet is certainly in scripture) Furthermore, I don't ultimately limit Jesus' teachings to a collection of apostolic writings. Joh 21:25 Now there are also many other things that Jesus did. Were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. I don't accept Scripture is either 'perspicious' nor that the sola scriptura principle is biblical. I believe scripture teaches the opposite: 2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast: and hold the traditions, which you have learned, whether by word or by our epistle. I don't believe this view belittles Scripture in any way. I'm sure I read and love the Scriptures more than most. If any Christian could have sat down with the elderly Apostle John I'm sure he could have explained many passages of Scripture. Who would say to him Scripture is perspicious and we are quite capable of interpreting it, we don't need your input. The Catholic Church has a realistic claim that it was given and has directly passed on a body of interpretations down the centuries. Best Regards Dalcent |
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55 | What's John 14:6 in original language? | John 14:6 | Dalcent | 133074 | ||
Hi DocTrinsograce, Yes, I've been down to the British Museum a few times; I live right in the centre of London. The Codex is just in a waist-high glass box so you get a good look at it. And you're right it hasn't got any spaces, although I didn't understand why. I don't know the Council of Laodicea but I was lucky enough in 1999 to visit the ruins of Laodicea, Colossae and Hieropolis. I flew into Antalya where Paul visited in Acts 14:25, and worked my way across some of the country; Asia Minor (modern day Turkey) is vast and once I was into the inner regions it was mainly snowy and mountainous - awesome. All of my travel in Turkey was done alone on foot with just a backpack and my army beret, or on their ancient old buses, no Greyhound coaches in Turkey! The interior cities such as Laodicea and Hieropolis (Col 4:13)are basically ghost towns. These parts of Turkey are essientially uninhabited now; they used to be on ancient highways. I bathed in the hot springs of Hieropolis which used to be filtered 6 miles down to the town of Laodicea and became 'lukewarm' a metaphor which John uses address to Laodicea in Rv 3:16. Also I was blessed to visit Malta twice (Acts 28) and stay at St. Paul's Bay where he was shipwrecked. You could see the reef where Paul was shipwrecked 27:42. I even went sailing in Malta in December after the Fast (27:9); this was not one of my better ideas. As my brother told me, the only thing that place is famous for is Paul was shipwrecked there. Your Brother in Christ Dalcent |
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56 | When does Scripture apply to us? | John 17:12 | Dalcent | 132531 | ||
Hi Mommapbs, What about context? Where does the Bible teach certain words, phrases, etc. will "speak to us" regardless of who they are addressing, Judas, Peter, God, satan etc. This is neither orthodox evangelicalism nor Catholic. This reminds me of a Pentecostal who told my wife, who had toothache at the time, she could get a gold filling, if she would "Open your mouth and he will fill it." Nonsense. Allowing scripture to "speak to you" outside the context it was written sounds like too much like the Mormons "burning in the bosom" to me. 'Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God' refers to unbelievers hearing the gospel. This is quoted out of context which was what my whole question is about. What about taking things too literally? Of course all things are not possible with God. Can you fly through the sky by flapping your arms. Can you become a teapot. The Bible is not meant to speak to us like this. We might as well use a donkeys tail with a pin in it. I agree ALL scripture is profitable. Certainly the Word-Faith false teachers find it very "profitable". Dalcent |
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57 | Did Jesus, have sisters and brothers | John 19:25 | Dalcent | 135260 | ||
typo: sister of Mary | ||||||
58 | How many people rose from the dead | Acts 9:40 | Dalcent | 154851 | ||
Hi there, You overlook rather a large group. Mat 27:52-53 The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many. |
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59 | Married by church and not state? | Acts 20:28 | Dalcent | 135098 | ||
I truly sympathize with your plight; it is unfair. Unless your future wife is particularly rich, it seems so unjust. Best Regards Dalcent |
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60 | Pictorial evidence of where Paul landed | Acts 27:41 | Dalcent | 135066 | ||
Hi there, I thought you guys might be interested in seeing pics of exactly where St. Paul was shipwrecked when he landed in the small island of Malta. Having spent 5 weeks in this small place I am convinced that this is the real site and not just legend. There isn't really anywhere else on the island to hit a reef, or as you'll see a rocky islet a little out from the bay! Act 27:27ff When the fourteenth night had come, as we were being driven across the Adriatic Sea, about midnight the sailors suspected that they were nearing land. So they took a sounding and found twenty fathoms. A little farther on they took a sounding again and found fifteen fathoms. And fearing that we might run on the rocks, they let down four anchors from the stern and prayed for day to come. And as the sailors were seeking to escape from the ship, and had lowered the ship's boat into the sea under pretense of laying out anchors from the bow, Paul said to the centurion and the soldiers, "Unless these men stay in the ship, you cannot be saved." Then the soldiers cut away the ropes of the ship's boat and let it go. As day was about to dawn, Paul urged them all to take some food, saying, "Today is the fourteenth day that you have continued in suspense and without food, having taken nothing. Therefore I urge you to take some food. It will give you strength, for not a hair is to perish from the head of any of you." And when he had said these things, he took bread, and giving thanks to God in the presence of all he broke it and began to eat. Then they all were encouraged and ate some food themselves. (We were in all 276 persons in the ship.) And when they had eaten enough, they lightened the ship, throwing out the wheat into the sea. Now when it was day, they did not recognize the land, but they noticed a bay with a beach, on which they planned if possible to run the ship ashore. So they cast off the anchors and left them in the sea, at the same time loosening the ropes that tied the rudders. Then hoisting the foresail to the wind they made for the beach. But striking a reef, they ran the vessel aground. The bow stuck and remained immovable, and the stern was being broken up by the surf. The soldiers' plan was to kill the prisoners, lest any should swim away and escape. But the centurion, wishing to save Paul, kept them from carrying out their plan. He ordered those who could swim to jump overboard first and make for the land, and the rest on planks or on pieces of the ship. And so it was that all were brought safely to land. Act 28:1 After we were brought safely through, we then learned that the island was called Malta. http://www.fotoreiseberichte.de/malta/malta015gr.jpg Note the plinth on this pic with a tiny statue of Paul you won't be able to make out: http://www.maltavista.net/img/photo/images/st_pauls3.jpg http://www.maltavista.net/img/photo/images/st_pauls.jpg |
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