Results 41 - 60 of 101
|
||||||
Results from: Notes Author: Dalcent Ordered by Date |
||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
41 | WHO pays the wage? | 1 John 1:9 | Dalcent | 134755 | ||
Mommabps, I am at a loss to understand why you would put this theory of yours above the clearer teaching of scripture. What do you want 1200 scriptures contradicting your hypothesis? 2Ti 2:12 if we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us; Heb 10:26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, Jam 2:14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? Heb 10:38 but my righteous one shall live by faith, and if he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him." Jam 1:26 If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless. 1Pe 1:17 And if you call on him as Father who judges impartially according to each one's deeds, conduct yourselves with fear throughout the time of your exile, Jam 2:17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. 1Co 15:1 Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, 1Co 15:2 and by which you are being saved, if you HOLD FAST to the word I preached to you--unless you believed in VAIN. Jam 2:24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 1Jo 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. 2Pe 2:20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 2Pe 2:21 For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. 2Pe 2:22 What the true proverb says has happened to them: "The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire." 1Jo 5:16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life--to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. 1Co 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 1Co 5:11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler--not even to eat with such a one. Jam 4:4 You adulterous people! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. Jam 5:19 My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, Jam 5:20 let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins. 1Pe 4:17 For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 2Co 13:2 I warned those who sinned before and all the others, and I warn them now while absent, as I did when present on my second visit, that if I come again I will not spare them-- Gal 6:9 And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up. What is the point of continuing; you have a Bible you've read all this already I presume. How about dropping jargon like 'performance Christianity' and read the Word, in its plain sense , not pretending each verse I quoted means the opposite because what you bring to the Bible demands it. Dalcent |
||||||
42 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | Dalcent | 134741 | ||
It is fascinating to the student of theology, and those who charge the Catholic Church with error to compare our beliefs with those Churches who broke off after the Council of Chalecedon 451, viz. the Monophysite or (more politically correct these days) the non-Chalcedonians. Most importantly the great historical patriarchate of Alexandria. We have such a Church in my city of London, viz. of Egyptian Coptic Christians who I have enjoyed visiting. You will find they hold virtually all the distinctives of Catholicism despite being entirely separate for 1565 years. The accusation of Catholicism's "errors" belonging to the medieval period is sheer myth and examining these Christians will put that lie to rest. Their website is http://www.stmark.org.uk/flashpage.htm |
||||||
43 | WHO pays the wage? | 1 John 1:9 | Dalcent | 134740 | ||
To quote my Catholic study Bible: Works done by our own strength without the grace of God and without faith in him are vain. This is the Catholic teaching on faith AND works. A Catholic would never separate faith AND works in explaining justification, hence the rejection of 'faith alone'. We would never say like Luther we could commit adultery 100 times and it not affect our justification. Faith without works in dead. God bless Dalcent |
||||||
44 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | Dalcent | 134737 | ||
Tertullian became a Montanist later. It was after the year 206 that he joined the Montanist sect, and he seems to have definitively separated from the Church about 211 (Harnack) or 213 (Monceaux). After writing more virulently against the Church than even against heathen and persecutors, he separated from the Montanists and founded a sect of his own. The remnant of the Tertullianists was reconciled to the Church by St. Augustine. His orthodox writings are held in great esteem although I guess that because he left the Catholic Church that is why he never was honoured as a a saint. No Church father is considered authortive by the Church of Rome, only the bishops in ecumenical council. Nevertheless early patristic consensus is inportant in showing how the early Chistian writers understood scripture; there were no evangelicals! The events of Acts 10:47ff are entirely unique in that they divinely justified the acceptance of the Gentiles into the Church to Jewish Christians. As unique as the tongues of fire on the day of Pentecost. The thief on the cross is another unique circumstance. It is more important to establish the pattern for the 'normal Christian birth.' The Catholic Church only teaches that baptism is the normative pattern of regeneration, and that God is not limited in this respect. They have always taught the efficacy of the baptism of desire, and the baptism of blood as exceptional cases of regeneration. The events of Acts 10 were to prove to the Jewish Christians God accepted the Gentiles in a one off way. It is interesting to note that the Holy Spirit 'fell' on the listeners of Peter's sermon; there is no mention of any altar call or born-again prayer. Dalcent |
||||||
45 | WHO pays the wage? | 1 John 1:9 | Dalcent | 134702 | ||
Where I stand on the matter of salvation by works? In half a verse? ...faith working (ENERGEO) through love. (NASB) ....faith activated and energized and expressed and WORKING through love. (AMP) NOT by faith alone, we only find that once in the Bible: James 2:24 (ESV) You see that a person is justified by works and NOT by faith alone. I don't care what the central tenet of the Reformation was, it's no Holy Cow to me. I prefer the Biblical texts to medieval backsliders. Dalcent |
||||||
46 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | Dalcent | 134698 | ||
Hi there, Quite a few of the quotes are variants of John 3:5, although I admit they were rather a lot to trawl through. One interesting point is that the quotations usually have BORN AGAIN of water and the Spirit. Which I think would be harder to dispute. This is a matter of textual criticism. My old Douay Rheims renders John 3:5 born-again, as it is translated from the Latin. Also these writers of antiquity all seem to follow that rendering. Think how early Irenaeus is. Jerome translated the Latin Vulgate from NT texts that are much older than we possess now so perhaps this rendering is right. The Codex Sinaiticus is from the end of the fourth century. Jerome may have been using texts hundreds of years old. Certainly we consider the Vulgate an important resource for that reason. Furthermore I still can't see why Act 10:47 doesn’t answer your question. Then Peter answered: Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, who have received the Holy Ghost, as well as we? (If the verse only had ‘water’ and not later confirmation this was baptism why would you have to accept it was referring to baptism? It would be another John 3:5) Can any man forbid water... Can any man forbid baptism... ...that these should not be baptized He is using water as a synonym for baptism. Your brother in Christ Dalcent These 7 quotes definitely understand John 3:5 as water baptism: 190 AD Irenaeus of Lyons "‘And [Naaman] dipped himself . . . seven times in the Jordan' [2 Kgs. 5:14]. It was not for nothing that Naaman of old, when suffering from leprosy, was purified upon his being baptized, but [this served] as an indication to us. For as we are lepers in sin, we are made clean, by means of the sacred water and the invocation of the Lord, from our old transgressions, being spiritually regenerated as new-born babes, even as the Lord has declared: ‘Except a man be born again through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven'" (Fragment 34). 140-230 AD TERTULLIAN "The prescript is laid down that 'without baptism, salvation is attainable by none' chiefly on the ground of that declaration of the Lord, who says, 'Unless one be born of water, he hath not life.'" (On Baptism, Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 3, pg. 674-675) 150-200 AD CLEMENT For thus hath the true prophet testified to us with an oath: 'Verily I say to you, That unless a man is born again of water, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.' (Clement, "Recognitions of Clement," Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 8, pg. 155 200-258 AD CARTHAGE Nemesianus of Thubunae 'Except a man be born again of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.' This is the Spirit which from the beginning was borne over the waters; for neither can the Spirit operate without the water, nor the water without the Spirit." ("The Seventh Council of Carthage Under Cyprian," Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 5, pg. 566.) 200-258 AD CYPRIAN ...baptism of the holy Church, by divine regeneration, for the kingdom of God, may be born of both sacraments, because it is written, 'Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.'" (Cyprian, "The Epistles of Cyprian," Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 5, pg. 384) 203 AD Tertullian "[N]o one can attain salvation without baptism, especially in view of the declaration of the Lord, who says, ‘Unless a man shall be born of water, he shall not have life'" (Baptism 12:1). (surely he is quoting from John 3:5). 240 AD Testimonies Concerning the Jews "That unless a man have been baptized and born again, he cannot attain unto the kingdom of God. In the Gospel according to John: 'Except a man be born again of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God [John 3:5] |
||||||
47 | John Chrysostom | John 3:5 | Dalcent | 134598 | ||
I just go by the words of Christ: Joh 6:55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. |
||||||
48 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | Dalcent | 134596 | ||
Dear Tim, I will attempt to answer your questions about Acts 10 and Gal 3:27 in due course. I am not ignoring them; I am going out soon. Some of the verses I gave alongside Gal 3:27 paired baptism with burial which I would argue is more clearly immersion baptism in water. Best Wishes Dalcent |
||||||
49 | John Chrysostom | John 3:5 | Dalcent | 134593 | ||
Are you a visiting rationalist? How can it be impossible for anyone to eat the flesh of the Lord and drink His blood. God does what he pleases. Consider, 1Co 11:27 Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. If the bread and wine are only symbolic how can eating it unworthily PROFANE the body and blood of the Lord? Justin the Martyr and indeed other martyrs of the period clearly taught this (as does scripture). Are the Christian martyrs, the seed of the Church, false teachers? Regards Dalcent |
||||||
50 | Why isn't the Sinner's Prayer a WORK | James 5:16 | Dalcent | 134592 | ||
Dear Tim, I appreciate your attempt to answer the question. However, I remain unconvinced that asking for something is not an action. Moreover, getting in a baptismal tank and the ministers giving a trinitarian blessing while you confess Christ hardly constitutes working for your salvation, relying on your own righteousness, not believing in the sufficiency of the atonement, etc. Many Protestants believe in baptismal regeneration. Typically the expressed beliefs about baptism on this site are evangelical: a branch of Protestantism. In my book name calling involves calling people names. Stupid, etc. (which you are obviously not) Accusing someone of translating the bible according to their denominational stance, and the like is not name calling. Best Wishes Dalcent |
||||||
51 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | Dalcent | 134571 | ||
More Fathers on Salvation through baptism.... 200 AD Cyprian of Carthage "While I was lying in darkness . . . I thought it indeed difficult and hard to believe . . . that divine mercy was promised for my salvation, so that anyone might be born again and quickened unto a new life by the laver of the saving water, he might put off what he had been before, and, although the structure of the body remained, he might change himself in soul and mind. . . . But afterwards, when the stain of my past life had been washed away by means of the water of rebirth, a light from above poured itself upon my chastened and now pure heart; afterwards, through the Spirit which is breathed from heaven, a second birth made of me a new man" (To Donatus 3) 200 AD HERMAS "And I said, 'I heard, sir, some teachers maintain that there is no other repentance than that which takes place, when we descended into the water and received remission of our former sin.' He said to me, 'That was sound doctrine which you heard; for that is really the case.'" (Hermas, "The Shepherd," Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 2, pg. 22) 200-258 AD CYPRIAN By which is also signified the very baptism of saving water, which indeed is once received, and is not again repeated.." (Cyprian, "The Epistles of Cyprian," Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 5, pg. 360) 340 AD Aphraahat the Persian Sage "From baptism we receive the Spirit of Christ. At that same moment in which the priests invoke the Spirit, heaven opens, and he descends and rests upon the waters, and those who are baptized are clothed in him. The Spirit is absent from all those who are born of the flesh, until they come to the water of rebirth, and then they receive the Holy Spirit. . . . [I]n the second birth, that through baptism, they receive the Holy Spirit" (Treatises 6:14:4). 345 AD CYRIL "When going down, therefore, into the water, think not of the bare element, but look for salvation by the power of the Holy Ghost: for without both thou canst not possibly be made perfect. It is not I that say this, but the Lord Jesus Christ, who has the power in this matter: for He saith, 'Except a man be born anew' (and he adds the words) 'of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.' Neither doth he that is baptized with water, but not found worthy of the Spirit, receive the grace in perfection. Nor if a man be virtuous in his deeds, but receive not the seal by water, shall he enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Cyril of Jerusalem, "Catechetical Lectures," Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, vol. 7, pg. 15.) 350 AD Cyril of Jerusalem "If any man does not receive baptism, he does not have salvation. The only exception is the martyrs, who, even without water, will receive baptism, for the Savior calls martyrdom a baptism [Mark 10:38]. . . . Bearing your sins, you go down into the water; but the calling down of grace seals your soul and does not permit that you afterwards be swallowed up by the fearsome dragon. You go down dead in your sins, and you come up made alive in righteousness" (Catechetical Lectures 3:10, 12). 381 AD Ambrose of Milan "The Church was redeemed at the price of Christ's blood. Jew or Greek, it makes no difference; but if he has believed, he must circumcise himself from his sins [in baptism (Col. 2:11-12)] so that he can be saved . . . for no one ascends into the kingdom of heaven except through the sacrament of baptism. . . . ‘Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God'" (Abraham 2:11:79-84). 387 AD John Chrysostom "[N]o one can enter into the kingdom of Heaven except he be regenerate through water and the Spirit, and he who does not eat the flesh of the Lord and drink His blood is excluded from eternal life, and if all these things are accomplished only by means of those holy hands, I mean the hands of the priest, how will any one, without these, be able to escape the fire of hell, or to win those crowns which are reserved for the victorious? These [priests] truly are they who are entrusted with the pangs of spiritual travail and the birth which comes through baptism: by their means we put on Christ, and are buried with the Son of God, and become members of that blessed Head" (The Priesthood 3:5-6). ULTIMATELY WHAT GREATER TESTAMENT TO ORTHODOXY IS THERE THAN THE NICENE CREED: 381 AD Council of Constantinople I "We believe . . . in one baptism for the remission of sins" (Nicene Creed). Dalcent |
||||||
52 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | Dalcent | 134570 | ||
Continuing… The great Champion of Trinitarian orthodoxy: 360 AD Athanasius "[A]s we are all from earth and die in Adam, so being regenerated from above of water and Spirit, in the Christ we are all quickened" (Four Discourses Against the Arians 3:26[33]). 240 AD Testimonies Concerning the Jews "That unless a man have been baptized and born again, he cannot attain unto the kingdom of God. In the Gospel according to John: 'Except a man be born again of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God [John 3:5] . . . ' Also in the same place: 'Unless ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink His blood, ye shall not have life in you' [John 6:53]. That it is of small account to be baptized and to receive the Eucharist, unless one profit by it both in deeds and works" (Testimonies Concerning the Jews 3:2:25-26). 256 AD Council of Carthage VII "And in the gospel our Lord Jesus Christ spoke with his divine voice, saying, ‘Except a man be born again of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.' . . . Unless therefore they receive saving baptism in the Catholic Church, which is one, they cannot be saved, but will be condemned with the carnal in the judgment of the Lord Christ" (VII Carthage). 110-165AD Martyr "Those who are convinced that what we teach is true and who desire to live accordingly are instructed to fast and to pray to God for the remission of all their past sins. We also pray and fast with them. Then we bring them to a place where there is water, and they are regenerated in the same manner in which we ourselves were regenerated. They then receive the washing with water in the name of God (the Father and Lord of the universe) and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit. For Christ said, 'Unless you are born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven"' [John 3:5]. (Justin First Apology chant 61) 387 AD John Chrysostom "[N]o one can enter into the kingdom of Heaven except he be regenerate through water and the Spirit, and he who does not eat the flesh of the Lord and drink His blood is excluded from eternal life, and if all these things are accomplished only by means of those holy hands, I mean the hands of the priest, how will any one, without these, be able to escape the fire of hell, or to win those crowns which are reserved for the victorious? These [priests] truly are they who are entrusted with the pangs of spiritual travail and the birth which comes through baptism: by their means we put on Christ, and are buried with the Son of God (The Priesthood 3:5-6). 115-188 THEOPHILUS "On the fifth day the living creatures which proceed from the waters were produced, through which also is revealed the manifold wisdom of God in these things; for who could count their multitude and various kinds? Moreover, the things proceeding from the waters were blessed by God, that this also might be a sign of men's being destined to receive repentance and remission of sins, through the water and laver of regeneration, as many as come to the truth, and are born again, and receive blessing from God." (Theophilus, "To Autolycus,", Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 2, pg. 101) 140-230 AD Tertullian "Baptism itself is a corporal act by which we are plunged into the water, while its effect is spiritual, in that we are freed from our sins" (Baptism 7:2). 140-230 AD TERTULLIAN "Happy is our sacrament of water, in that, by washing away the sins of our early blindness, we are set free and admitted into eternal life! A treatise on this matter will not be superfluous; instructing not only such as are just becoming formed in the faith... The consequence is, that a viper of the Cainite heresy, lately conversant in this quarter, has carried away a great number with her most venomous doctrine, making it her first aim to destroy baptism. Which is quite in accordance with nature; for vipers and asps and serpents themselves generally do affect arid and waterless places. But we, little fishes after the example of our ikhthus, Jesus Christ, are born in water, nor have we safety in any other way than by permanently abiding in water; so that most monstrous creature, who had no right to teach even sound doctrine, knew full well how to kill the little fishes, by taking them away from the water!" (On Baptism, Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 3, pg. 669.) 150-200 AD CLEMENT He instituted baptism by water amongst them, in which they might be absolved from all their sins on the invocation of His name." (Clement, "Recognitions of Clement," Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 8, pg. 88) 181 AD Theophilus of Antioch "Moreover, those things which were created from the waters were blessed by God, so that this might also be a sign that men would at a future time receive repentance and remission of sins through water and the bath of regeneration all who proceed to the truth and are born again and receive a blessing from God" (To Autolycus 12:16). |
||||||
53 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | Dalcent | 134569 | ||
Jerome certainly believed in baptismal regeneration: he was a Catholic! 382 AD Jerome "[S]eeing that a man, baptized in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost, becomes a temple of the Lord, and that while the old abode is destroyed a new shrine is built for the Trinity (Dialogue Against the Luciferians 6). I'm sure you know that Irenaeus sat at the feet of Polycarp and Polycarp was a disciple of the Apostle John. What are people thinking interpreting 2,000 year old texts anew utterly removed from those who knew the Apostles? And most of the time, denying the plain sense of Scripture for allegories, spiritualizations and metaphors which support the traditions of their own groups. 120-205 AD IRENAEUS "This class of men have been instigated by Satan to a denial of that baptism which is regeneration to God, and thus to a renunciation of the whole faith." (Against Heresies, bk. 1, chap. 21, sec. 1, Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 1, pg. 345.) 120-205 AD IRENAEUS "As we are lepers in sin, we are made clean from our old transgressions by means of the sacred water and the invocation of the Lord. We are thus spiritually regenerated as newborn infants, even as the Lord has declared: 'Except a man be born again through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.'" Irenaeus, "Fragments From Lost Writings", no. 34, Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 1, pg. 574) 110-165 AD Justin Martyr The "Constitutions of the Holy Apostles" also refer to John 3:5. There, the one who refuses to be baptized is to be condemned as an unbeliever, partially on the basis of what Jesus told Nicodemus…. "He that, out of contempt, will not be baptized, shall be condemned as an unbeliever, and shall be reproached as ungrateful and foolish. For the Lord says: 'Except a man be baptized of water and of the Spirit, he shall by no means enter into the kingdom of heaven.' And again: 'He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved but he that believeth not shall be damned.'" (Justin Martyr "Constitutions of the Holy Apostles," Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 7, pg. 456-457.) 217 AD Hippolytus "The Father of immortality sent the immortal Son and Word into the world, who came to man in order to wash him with water and the Spirit; and He, begetting us again to incorruption of soul and body, breathed into us the Spirit of life, and endued us with an incorruptible panoply. If, therefore, man has become immortal, he will also be God. And if he is made God by water and the Holy Spirit after the regeneration of the laver he is found to be also joint-heir with Christ after the resurrection from the dead. Wherefore I preach to this effect: Come, all ye kindreds of the nations, to the immortality of the baptism" (Discourse on the Holy Theophany 8). 75 AD The Letter of Barnabas "Regarding [baptism], we have the evidence of Scripture that Israel would refuse to accept the washing which confers the remission of sins and would set up a substitution of their own instead [Jer. 22:13; Is. 16:1Letter of Barnabas 11:1) 80 AD Hermas "'I have heard, sir,' said I, 'from some teacher, that there is no other repentance except that which took place when we went down into the water and obtained the remission of our former sins.' He said to me, 'You have heard rightly, for so it is'" (The Shepherd 4:3:1) THEODOTUS "Now, regeneration is by water and spirit, as was all creation: 'For the Spirit of God moved on the deep.' And for this reason the Savior was baptized, though not Himself needing to be so, in order that He might consecrate the whole water for those who were being regenerated. Thus it is not the body only, but the soul, that we cleanse." ("Excerpts of Theodotus," Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 8, pg. 44) I've kept these quotes brief but suggest that to those who would dismiss the first centuries of the Christian era, try letting history judge you: not you judging history. Don't ask whether these great Christians (many who were martyrs)are in your Church; ask whether you are in theirs! God Bless |
||||||
54 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | Dalcent | 134568 | ||
Doc, You'll find that Titus 3:5 in the NAB and my Interlinear NT is: called 'the bath of rebirth' and that loutrou (bath)is a noun. Check it with Strong's etc. C'mon, how could anyone deny this is the baptismal tank and keep a straight face. Dalcent |
||||||
55 | Hank, all I need is just one quote. | John 3:5 | Dalcent | 134564 | ||
Kalos, The NET Bible does not favor this rendering but gives it as a footnote. I have no problem with reading about any hypothesis in a footnote in an evangelical Bible. Plenty of objections are raised such as 'difficult to maintain', 'awkward' etc. Nonetheless, the NET Bible correctly renders the verse the same as all the others. Dalcent |
||||||
56 | Verses where water alone means baptism? | John 3:5 | Dalcent | 134563 | ||
"I am seeking a more specifically Biblical interpretation rather than a traditional one." Is this a game DocTrinsograce? Someone proposes a scripture and we "interpret" a goofy new meaning. As long as the Christian Church didn't believe it for 1600 years it's cool. Dalcent |
||||||
57 | 1st 400 yrs. "all" agreed on John 3:5 | John 3:5 | Dalcent | 134562 | ||
Dear Tim, Since I have been on the forum you have done nothing but give convoluted, twisted renderings of every verse of Scripture which contradicts your evangelical theology. I am frankly appalled that you chose to pervert scripture with silly interpretations worked backward from your theological convictions. This makes you a charlatan in my book. All my bibles reflecting the scholarship of hundreds of qualified Greek scholars disagree with your "translations." Have you any qualifications in Greek to back your rearrangements of scripture. You say I attacked A.T.Robinson when I accused him of working back into scripture his baptist theology. Well that is exactly what he did; and I'll tell you when you mentioned him supporting your Acts 2:38 theory, 'Oh, yeah: nineteeth century baptist, I'll bet' popped into my head. (for your information when I studied Greek at King's College, University of London the standard text was by J.W.Wenham) Tim, I can't 'show' you anything in Scripture because you deny scripture when it doesn't agree with your sect. Just like JW's do, although thankfully you haven't produced an abomination like the New World Translation yet. You are now saying that when Scripture mentions 'baptism' it doesn't mean 'water baptism' unless it specifies 'water baptism'. Tim, I will gladly never mention you or "misrepresent" your positions on this forum again. Thank God that the men he has risen up to translate our Bible translations are capable of translating and not reinterpreting the Word of God! Note how Mommabps never addressed my question why baptism is a work and praying the born-again prayer isn't. Or how she can't understand why I think baptism appropriates the blood of Christ, and is not contrary to the atonement. The depths of ignorance displayed by some makes me want to weep for them. Dalcent |
||||||
58 | 1st 400 yrs. "all" agreed on John 3:5 | John 3:5 | Dalcent | 134512 | ||
Mommabps, You write: Do we believe in what we do (water baptism) or what Jesus has DONE (the blood) to save us? This is an utterly illogical statement. Water baptism APPROPRIATES what Jesus has done on the cross OR in you theory 'The born-again sinner's prayer' APPROPRIATES what Jesus has done on the cross. Why is Baptism DOING something to be approved by God, and Praying the sinner's prayer to recieve Christ is not? Please, please explain to me why praying a prayer is not DOing something!!! You object to those who think they must DO something to be approved by God?? What about: 2Ti 2:15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one APPROVED, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth. 1Co 9:27 sounds like Paul thinks he has to DO something too: But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified. Anyway, there is nothing more certainly taught in Scripture than that faith AND baptism saves. There are certainly various sects that appeared from the 17th century onwards who teach otherwise: Act 19:5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Mat 3:16 And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; (AN ODD MOMENT FOR THE HOLY SPIRIT TO DESCEND EH?) Gal 3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. (TIM MORAN WILL TELL YOU HOW IN THE ORIGINAL GREEK 'BAPTIZED' HERE MEANS THE EXACT OPPOSITE) 1Co 12:13 For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--Jews or Greeks, slaves or free--and all were made to drink of one Spirit. Act 2:38 And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Act 2:41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls. Act 8:12 But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Act 8:36 And as they were going along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, "See, here is water! What prevents me from being baptized?" Act 10:48 And he COMMANDED (EMPHASIS MINE) them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Act 16:15 And after she was baptized, and her household as well, she urged us, saying, "If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay." And she prevailed upon us. Act 16:33 And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their wounds; and he was baptized AT ONCE, he and all his family. Act 18:8 Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed in the Lord, together with his entire household. And many of the Corinthians hearing Paul believed and were baptized. (OF COURSE YOU'VE EXPLAINED HOW THIS MEANS THE EXACT OPPOSITE) Act 22:16 And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.' Gal 3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 1Pe 3:21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, Col 2:12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, Tim will no doubt explain in the arfoklopist greek sub-tense this means 'one Lord, one faith, one born-again prayer!!!' Rom 6:4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. Conform to the Bible: don't conform it to your pre-conceptions. Dalcent. |
||||||
59 | Hank, all I need is just one quote. | John 3:5 | Dalcent | 134506 | ||
Kalos, Your 'Acts 2:38 should be translated..' is nonsense. Check every translation on the market, and tell me which one follows your avowedly biased rendering. You would rather change the Word of God, than change your doctrine. Shame. Clearly Acts 2:38 is among those passages of the Scriptures "which the unlearned and unstable twist, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction (2 Pet 3:16)" Changing scripture because you have a doctrine in mind is really pathetic! Dalcent |
||||||
60 | 1st 400 yrs. "all" agreed on John 3:5 | John 3:5 | Dalcent | 134505 | ||
Dear Tim, What are you talking about????? There were no debates about about whether baptism was necessary for salvation. The belief was held by all. For my Master's degree in Catholic theology I read broadly across the patrology (Catholic and heretics) of the first hundreds of years of the Christian era. There was no sect advancing your novel doctrine. Anyway give me quotes and I'll stand corrected! Dalcent |
||||||
Result pages: << First < Prev [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 ] Next > Last [6] >> |