Results 281 - 292 of 292
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Author: bowler Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
281 | Were all names once in the book of life? | Rev 3:5 | bowler | 206237 | ||
Doc Interesting url, trying to see how it answers whether or not the names of the wicked were ever in the book, or just the elect? Perhaps you have more links? Truly interested in this. Enjoyed all your other links and thread numbers so far. blessings abound, bowler |
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282 | Were all names once in the book of life? | Rev 3:5 | bowler | 206286 | ||
Doc I am well aware and understand the doctrine of election as being that God elects those whom He has foreknown and predestined to be saved. I will read all that theologian Aruthur Pink has to say on the matter simply because you suggested it and because I am interested in what this man is teaching that you admire so much in an effort to see how the book of life is just a metaphor. I would like to take the Bible literaly as much as possible and do not see how the book of life is a metaphor, although I believe other things in Revelation are figurative language for real things and events. Honest question not meant to foster a debate - If we do not take the book of life as being a literal book, then what is to prevent us from taking the lake of fire figuratively? However, I will also read Arthur Pink on this. blessings abound, bowler |
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283 | Were all names once in the book of life? | Rev 3:5 | bowler | 206300 | ||
Doc With all due respect to both you and to Arthur Pink the very great and respected theologian by many and now by me I am having trouble with his concept that the book of life is truly a figure of speech. Now, this is submitted in the spirit of a desire to arrive at a literal interpretation of the Bible and is not meant to be sent to you by way of starting argument or debate. This is just an obeservation on what the immenent theologian Aruthur Pink wrote on the subject at hand. Aruthur Pink 3. Its Grand Original, http://www.pbministries.org/books/pink/Election/election.htm Pink writes - This expression "the Book of Life" has its roots in Isaiah 4:3, wherein God refers to His chosen remnant as "every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem," and it is this which explains the meaning of all the later references thereto. God’s eternal act of election is spoken of as writing the names of His chosen ones in the Book of Life, and the following things are suggested by this figure. First, the exact knowledge which God has of all the elect, His particular remembrance of them, His love for and delight in them. Second, that His eternal election is one of particular persons whose names are definitely recorded by Him. Third, to show they are absolutely safe and secure, for God having written their names in the Book of Life, they shall never be blotted out (Rev. 3:5). Isaiah 4:3 is not the first reference to the book of life in the Bible as the roots of that concept as Pink states. Exodus gives us the roots and the first account of a book owned by God that contains the names of those belonging to God – Exodus 32:32, 33, and it is not in that scripture a figure of speech as it is in Isaiah. The next account is Psalm 69:28 which specifically says the words the book of life and that the wicked shall not be recorded with the righteous. According to Moses account we cannot assume that the book is merely figurative because the words written and scrolls are used, similar things can be said of Psalm 69, as is true in Revelation in several places concerning the book and names being written. Pink gives no scriptural reasoning for why the book of life should be considered to be a figure other than the wording in Isaiah 4:3, and based on that one scripture, he calls it a figure. There is no reason to question that the book of life is the Lamb’s Book of Life based on the collection of scriptures on the subject. I will not get into here the various things I saw that I do not quite agree with that Pink says about election. Nothing major, like sovereignty, but various observations about process as he describes it. Respectfully and in the Spirit of Christians fellow ship, blessings abound, bowler |
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284 | Were all names once in the book of life? | Rev 3:5 | bowler | 206329 | ||
Doc I would like to take as my priciple that where the Bible leaves us no choice but to take something figuratively, like when Jesus says eat my flesh, and drink my blood - in other words when the Bible is clear that it is making an anaology then it is. But where ever we can take the Bible literaly we should take it literaly when it is being straight forward. If we don't do this then things like the lake of fire could be an analogy also. Jesus mentioned this book of life as well as others. I went and borrowed the book from an elder that you mentioned some time ago and have yet to return it. I agree that we need to interpret Biblical literature according to its Biblical genre. I agree with Gordon D. Fee and Douglas Stuart the following - How To Study The Bible For All Its Worth, by Gordon D. Fee and Douglas Stuart, page 202 - Upon reflection, one can see that Paul is driving at an anaology. He is saying, in effect, "That the rock was to them as Christ is to us - a source of sustenance in the same way Christ at his tables sustains us." Paul's language is metaphorical. We, however, are not simply inspired writers of the Scripture. What Paul did we are not authorized to do. The allegorical connections he was inspired to find between the Old Testament and the New Testament are trustworthy. But nowhere does the scripture say to us, "Go do likewise." However I disagree with Gordon D. Fee's statement, as he is the NT writer and as Douglas Stuart is the OT writer in compiling information for their joint book, that - pages 262 through 263 - The fall of Rome in chapter 18 seems to appear as the first chapter in the final wrap-up, and many words or ideas that also imply the final judgment are interlaced with words or ideas that also imply the final end as part of the picture. Here we have the writers of the book, How To Read The Bible For All Its Worth, taking the fall of Rome as being the fulfillment of prophecy, without qualifying that John unequivocaly meant Rome to be the object of the scripture, thus relegating John's description to John's knowledge of Rome as an oppressor, rather than on John simply recounting what he is being told to recount as it states in chapter one he is doing. They go on to say the following - 1. We need to learn that the pictures of the future are just that - pictures. The picture expresses the reality, but are not themselves to be confused with reality, nor are the details of every picture necessarily to be "fulfilled" in some specific way. Thus when the first four trumpets proclaim calamities on nature as a part of God's judgment, we must not neccessarily expect a literal fulfillment of all of these details of these pictures. The question must raise at this point of what the nature of prophecy is - is it a depiction of future real events in figurative language, or is it pictures of the future that do not have to come true in the details because they are only pictures? There is not one prophecy of scripture that has not come true, however picturesque the language may have been, the details all did come true. Now, here for me, becomes a problem of interpretation, where the authors of the book declare that we cannot take the liscence to take scriptures and be "inspired" to redefine terms, or draw analogies, or to render certain uncertain aspect, or to render all things in a prophetic presentation in scripture to be pictures that may not come true in their parts. Paul can and Jesus can and even John could, but we cannot. They themselves now take prophecy, call them pictures of the future and declare that we cannot expect them to come true in a specifc way as described by scripture. While we can probably all agree that Revelation uses figurative language, the authors do not seem to quite agree that the prophecies clothed in figurative language will come true as to the details promised in the Revelation. I find this somewhat objectionable and do not see the difference between this view and taking "inspired liscence" in redifining what prohpecy is in scripture. But I found what you presented as your own understandings and the links to be most engaging and interesting reading and have most thoroughly enjoyed your posts on this subject and on others. I happily agree to disagree with you on this and would like to end the discussion from my end, but would not mind at all hearing more from you or anyone else on it and would receive it. blessings abound, bowler |
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285 | Were all names once in the book of life? | Rev 3:5 | bowler | 206332 | ||
Doc I do hope I have not offended you in some way, but I respect if you are done, no need to reply. blessings abound, bowler |
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286 | What Happened To The Tribe Of Dan? | Rev 7:5 | bowler | 206334 | ||
I would like to know what happened to the tribe of Dan? Revelation chapter 7:5-8, lists the tribes as those from among whom the 144,000 were to be choosen as the following although I have reversed the order because of the order elswhere in the Bible - 1)Reuben 2)Simeon 3)Levi 4)Judah 5)Zebulun 6)Issachar 7)Gad 8)Asher 9)Naphtali 10)Joseph 11)Benjamin Numbers 1:20-47 lists the tribes as a list of tribes as warriors, excluding Levites as warriors, but mentioning them as - 1)Reuben 2)Simeon 3)Levites 4)Judah 5)Zebulun 6)Issachar 7)Dan 8)Gad 9)Asher 10)Naphtali 11)Joseph 12)Benjamin 13)Manasseh Genesis 49:3-27 1)Reuben 2)Simeon 3)Levi 4)Judah 5)Zebulan 6)Isaachar 7)Dan 8)Gad 9)Asher 10)Naphtali 11)Joseph 12)Benjamin So by the time we get to Revelation, what has happened to the tribe of Dan? blessings abound, bowler |
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287 | What Happened To The Tribe Of Dan? | Rev 7:5 | bowler | 206344 | ||
Cody Mac Thank you very much. At some point the tribe of Manasseh and the tribe of Gad were half tribes. I tried to trace the history of Dan while waiting for an answer and found that it simply dissapears out of scripture sometime after the building of the Milo at Jerusalem, scripture has the tribe of Dan going up into the hills and then they are not heard of again. Perhaps your explanation shows best what happened there, they rebelled against God somewhere along the line. What has me pulling my mustache in thought is that in Revelation there are not 12 tribes but 11 mentioned, and that in Numbers there not 12 but 13 mentioned. I try not to enter into speculation though it is far safer to find a definite scriptural answer. blessings abound, bowler |
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288 | What Happened To The Tribe Of Dan? | Rev 7:5 | bowler | 206384 | ||
Immanuelsown I am trying to still learn about and get used to how this site works and I keep stumbling on what people are saying! So thanks for pointing me to a link, or do you call them branches? I do believe Doc was most helpful in this manner as well, I had to get into the right search box first and then everything poped up. Now I must say, that was a most engaging post you gave me there, very thorough, very thorough indeed. I will keep stuyding to find out who subsituted for whom and whom was a half tribe of whom and why Revelation only lists 11 tribes out of a possible 13. blessings abound, bowler |
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289 | What does 'key' mean? | Rev 9:1 | bowler | 208036 | ||
Thomas The angel in 9:1 is Satan, the angel in 20:1 an angel of God. The first reference seems to be to that Satan is given the power to go unloose demonic forces to inflict harm for six months but not to kill as demons acting under the authority of Satan - but what is so interesting about that is that Satan is "given" the keys by somebody from God to go do evil! The referrence in 20:1 is to an angel in God's camp who is given the power to go get Satan and to remove him where ever he was and locked him in the abyss for a millenium. Some believe the key is symbolic of power, some like myself believe there is an actual key because the Bible does not say it is a symbol or indicate that it was a symbol. But it could just mean power, I could be wrong. blessings abound, bowler |
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290 | Is the world ending in 2012. | Rev 16:8 | bowler | 206212 | ||
Spike Revelation 16:8, 9 is about one of the bowl judgments and some who do not take a literal interpretation of the Bible do not believe it will happen as prophesied by John. A literal intrepretation of the Bible would mean that it is going to come true sometime in the future. I say future because Revelation, although it does use figurative language is a real prophecy and no prophecy that is in the Bible has failed yet. Revelation chapter 1 is about an angel announcing a Revelation to John from Jesus Christ. In Revelation 1:19 the angel tells John that this is about the past, the present, and the future. The past is Revelation chapter 1, the present is Revelation chapters 2, and 3, the future is Revelation chapters 4 through 22. The prophecy of the Great Tribulation starts at chapter 6 and lasts until chapter 19 when Christ returns. In the Great Tribulation are a series of real judgments that are described using some figurative langauge to describe real events - for instance there are locusts with faces that go out and sting people that may be demons, - the beasts have horns that represent people and, or nations, or kingdoms and there are figurative depictions of two different women one good, one bad that represent the church and the evil economic and spiritual empire of the beast. But the bowl judgments and the trumpet judgments are meant to be real things to happen in the future. The one thing about Revelation is that the bulk of it, the chapters 6 through 19 are suppossed to happen within 7 years split up into two parts and the judgments happen during this time. So where Revelation 16:8, 9 says that an angel pours out a bowl on the sun and that the sun scorches men with fierce heat and that they curse God, we can count on that it will happen because the Bible does not lie. Many have been saying for years that Jesus is going to come at a this date or that certain date. They got the first dates they came up with wrong, now they have choosen other dates. Jesus says - Mathew 24:36 But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, not the Son, but the Father alone. If Jesus did not know, and if the angels do not know, it is certain that these people cannot say with any certainty that te world will be ending in 2012. Another reason why this cannot be so is that all the things that have to happen in order, starting from chapter 6, would have had to have started in 2005, and they did not happen at all, so the end of the world cannot come by 2012 because we would have to be 4 years into a set of judgments that have not happened yet. blessings abound, bowler |
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291 | Armies of Heaven Fight With Jesus? | Rev 19:14 | bowler | 206721 | ||
I am trying to figure out if the armies of heaven, clothed in white linen, which represents the saints, do the actual fighting with Jesus? It seems like Jesus is slaying people with the word of God out of his mouth, so I am wondering what the saints are doing there with Him since they are called His army? All the other times in Revelation that you see white linen it is the saints, only one time you have angels, but the word means something different than white that they were wearing, "gleaming" I think it is. blessings abound, bowler |
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292 | Armies of Heaven Fight With Jesus? | Rev 19:14 | bowler | 206745 | ||
Makarios Thank you for your thoughts here. I hope you don't mind, I am going to avail myself of all your links there in your profile. Here is one for you, but you may already have it - http://www.scripture4all.org/download/download down slash ISA20.php blessings abound, bowler |
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