Results 261 - 280 of 517
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Results from: Notes Author: Beja Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
261 | Isn't Paul free of sin? | Rom 7:25 | Beja | 225937 | ||
Philip, I think you should be careful about taking months to try to force yourself to see a passage in a light which you have already determined it must be read in. This is a wonderful way to missinterpret scripture. Lets look at one of the key verses you mentioned. Romans 7:18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. Now Paul says taht I know nothing good DWELLS. That is present tense. But he is clarifying, in the flesh, to show that there is certainly the desire in his inner man to do good. "In the flesh" can not be him saying "in the past" because he is clearly speaking in the present tense. And this doesn't even begin to deal with Philippians 3. In Christ, Beja |
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262 | SHOULD I TAKE THE LORDS SUPPER WITH UNCO | John 4:24 | Beja | 225795 | ||
Lionheart, Hebrews is a precious book indeed. I chose Malachi however because it gives us God's reaction to the people no longer having a reverent fear of Him, which was what it seemed his question was about. And I do believe the Old Testament is meant for us, even if the rituals of the Old Testament are not meant for us to practice. Rom 15:4 For whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instruction, so that through perseverance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope. Though I could not begin to argue against somebody going to Hebrews! It is definitely as good as you suggest. In Christ, Beja |
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263 | SHOULD I TAKE THE LORDS SUPPER WITH UNCO | John 4:24 | Beja | 225774 | ||
jje, I'm glad that you benefited from Ephesians. This question seems to be quite sweeping in its scope. On one level I can answer it very simply. Our reverence towards God is extremely important. But I wish I could answer in a way that is more edifying. Since you were willing to dig into the word of God yourself once, then perhaps that will be the best way to go about it again. Try reading the Olt Testament book of Malachi. The book gives several instances in how they had in practical ways ceased to have a holy reverence for God. In this book God is rebuking them. Especially note how God responds to those who repent in the face of his rebuke in Malachi 3:16,17. Perhaps there are others on the forum that can point you to some other great passages. Or perhaps I'll think of more when I'm not responding at 2:30 in the morning. God bless you in your studies. In Christ, Beja |
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264 | psalms... judgement chapter 1 verse 5 | Rev 20:15 | Beja | 225719 | ||
EdB, Now we are getting somewhere. There is in fact a judgement. And yes it is good that we use that word, not because I have insisted upon it, but because it is in fact the word that scripture uses. We are not being careless or unclear or nit picking by using scriptures on words. Saying what scripture says AS scripture says it is both a good thing and a safe guard. Now, if that is admited lets push on further, if you still care to. What is judged? Is it simply that they rejected Jesus Christ as you say? Or is it the sins that are going to be judged, which is what I would assert. Let me offer a scripture reference. Colossians 1:5,6 "Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. On account of these the wrath God is coming." Clearly states that it is on the account these sins the wrath of God is soon to come upon the world. Not simply rejecting Christ. Further, look at Revelations 20:12,13 again twice in those verses it says they were judged specifically according to their deeds/what they had done. Not simply by their rejection of Christ. 1 Peter 4 contains another excellent passage on it. 1 Peter 4:3-5 "For the time that is past suffices for doing what the Gentiles want to do, living in sensualtiy, passions, drunkenness, orgies, drinking parties, and lawless idolatry. With respect to this they are surprised when you do not join them in the same flood of debauchery, and they malign you; but they will give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead" Look at what they are about to give account of when God judges them, namely all the listed sins and their maligning Christians for not doing likewise. We have ample scriptural testimony to the coming judgement of sins that we have commited. Let us look at one more before I address john 3. Romans 2:1-3,5 "Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgement on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. We know that the judgement of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. Do you suppose, O man--you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself--that you will escape the judgement of God? ...But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on teh day of wrath when God's righteous judgement will be revealed." How many things shall I point out in this passage? They will not escape his judgement who "practise such things." "We know that the judgement of God rightly fallson those who PRACTISE SUCH THINGS." (emphasis mine.) Now, let me address John 3:18. John 3:18 "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God." (ESV) Now, you are rightly pointing out two things from this passage. I chose the english standard version because it is drawing out here that the word "judged" is being used somewhat differently. Here when it says that somebody who believes is not judged. What it means is that they will not be condemned. Now there is another sense in which we can use the word judged. For example if I judge was to stand up and declare me innocent of all charges, I was in a sense judged though I was judged to be innoccent. In another sense the word "judged" is sometimes used to refer specifically mean the condemning side of it. That is how it is used here. This passage is not meaning to say that those who believe will not be publicly judged to be righteous before God, because they will. It means they will not be condemned in the judgement because they have believed upon Christ. So they will be judged if by that we mean a public declaration of their innoccence, but they will not be judged in the sense of being condemned. The second part: you rightly point out that with regards to those who do not believe their judgement is spoken of here in a past tense. This is something I conceded much earlier in our discussion. There is without a doubt a sense in which judgement has already been given. By not believing they have already clenched their judgement as certain. Yet though that be the case, this passage is not denying that there will be a day in which that verdict is publicly declared, publicly vindicated with evidence from their sinful actions, and the penalty publically carried out. I hope this serves to benefit the discussion. In Christ, Beja |
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265 | psalms... judgement chapter 1 verse 5 | Rev 20:15 | Beja | 225710 | ||
EdB, Very well, I will be happy to discuss this passage. Tell me what it is in this passage specifically that refutes that there is a future judgement? Or perhaps, as per what ariel said, you concede that point and whish to argue a different specific thesis. Make it very clear, if you don't mind, what specific point you intend to make from the passage and together we'll see if the passage sustains it. In Christ, Beja |
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266 | psalms... judgement chapter 1 verse 5 | Rev 20:15 | Beja | 225709 | ||
Ariel, I may be wrong but I think you are mistaken. This entire thread I've argued only one thing: There is a future judgement. I've never suggested that every other individual point he has made is wrong. I simply have tried to show there is a future judgement. Now, I can't recall a single point in any of this thread where he has agreed upon that point as you suggest. If he has, I will be happty to be pointed to the post where he has done so. There is always the possibility I have simply missed it. Lets claim our own words when we engage in such discussions. Here is the quote he made in post 225643 "The wicked that didn't accept Jesus aren't judged." If it is as you say, then let us put the question to him. EdB, has this statement indeed been recanted and I just missed you saying so? In Christ, Beja |
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267 | psalms... judgement chapter 1 verse 5 | Rev 20:15 | Beja | 225695 | ||
EdB, I do understand what you are saying. This is not the first time I've heard people speaking what you are saying. However, showing you your error requires not long thought process, but the discipline to actually stop and look at individual passages to see if they support or condemn your theological statements. I admit I am a bit saddened that you are unwilling to actually buckle down and discuss a given passage of scripture. You continue to cry "proof texting!" each time I try to direct our attention to actual passages, and with this one phrase you quickly hurry on to your own theological stances. No discussion concerning scripture can be settled without the hard work and discipline of exegeting passages. Unless you are willing to do that we will keep just spouting our own rhetoric. I suppose part of me is happy and welcomes the end of the discussion, the other part of me regrets that so few are willing to really discuss the Bible rather than simply state their views repeatedly. May God bless you. In Christ, Beja |
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268 | psalms... judgement chapter 1 verse 5 | Rev 20:15 | Beja | 225688 | ||
EdB, While I was taking my daughter to dance class tonight I had some thought on how we might get very specific and have therefore some hope for our conversation. Let me step by step go through a few points in the passage that sparked our original discussion, Revelations 20. Let me quote again verses 12 and 13. "And I saw the dead, grea and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done." Now let you and I, just for a few posts, agree to restrict ourselves to discussing this passage. This is the only way we are going to get anywhere is if we actually focus on the passages. Now, I will lay out some points and you let me know specifically at what point in my reasoning that you and I part ways. Let me begin with my Thesis, then my points. Thesis: There is a future judgement. 1.) I take this scene to be something happening in the future. Whatever that "something" may be which is being described in Rev 20:11-15, its at a future date to our current moment in history. 2.) Whatever that "something" is, scripture describes it in these particular two verses as saying "they were judged." It uses these specific words more than once. This is not some word that I have randomly chosen to describe but but whatever is taking place, SCRIPTURE has chosen to descibe this future even with these words. 3.) Now, assuming we are in agreement that there is "some future event" and in these two verses scripture refers to it as "they were judged" I have a question. How do you say that I am in error when I say there will be a future time when people will be judged? How can you at the same time say that scripture is correct when it says it, yet I am wrong when I say it? I can think of only two ways you could possibly argue this. a.) You assume that what I mean, and what scripture means when we say this are two very different thigns. So that when scripture says there will be an event in the future when individuals will be judged, it means one thing and is correct, yet when I say that in the future there is an event in which individuals will be judged I mean something very different from what scripture is saying and therefore I am wrong. b.) You consider both I and scripture both to be wrong in asserting this. Assuming you didn't disagree with points 1 and 2, I ask you on which of these grounds do you disagree with my Thesis? Please, I ask you again, let us restrain ourselves for the moment to this one passage. Show me where I am missunderstanding THIS particular scripture. In Christ, Beja |
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269 | psalms... judgement chapter 1 verse 5 | Rev 20:15 | Beja | 225686 | ||
EdB, Be very careful of what you are doing. You say "what would be the point?" But because you can not see the point shall we ignore them? I think I will let God be God and if He sees fit to have a judgement at the end in order to place that judgement on display in a some clear final sense, I will not critique his choice with my ability to see whether or not it is fitting. I see, and have shown, that scripture very very clearly states that he has chosen to do so. At that point it is no longer my roll as sitting underneath scripture to argue whether or not it is, but to only understand that God has seen fit, and then to apply my mind to understanding perhaps why. If you wish to not hear or see these exceedingly clear scriptures, then I intend to spend no further effort trying to show you. Only take care with how your handle and read the word of God. For if we are to give an account of every idle word we speak, how much more so will we give an account for how we handle His words? Let us always be ready to let scripture correct us. In Christ, Beja |
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270 | psalms... judgement chapter 1 verse 5 | Rev 20:15 | Beja | 225684 | ||
EdB, I suppose it would be good for me to give an example of the clearly stated scripture. Acts 17:30,31 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead. A clear statement that there is a FUTURE specific date of judgement for the whole world. Here is another from Paul teaching Felix about the Christian Faith. Acts 24:25 And as he reasoned about righteousness and self-control and the coming judgement, Felix was alarmed and said... Do you see that Paul taught a COMING day of judgement? Your thought process is in error. The root of your error is that you are failing to see that the judgement has a both now and yet to come aspect just as our salvation has a now and yet to come aspect. If you do a search on the word "salvation" sodzo in the greek. Then you will find it is sometimes spoken of past, sometimes ongoing, and sometimes as a future event. The judgement upon us is in much the same way. God has judged the world, is pouring out restrained judgement on the world now, and will one day finally judge it. In Christ, Beja |
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271 | What makes a tithe a tithe? | Matt 23:23 | Beja | 225682 | ||
Gary, Some of what you said I agree with. Sacrificial giving is certainly in many cases more than a tithe. But where does scripture teach equal sacrifice? I admit, my first thoughts are that this sounds like twisting scripture to support left wing political notions. However, I hold off on that and ask whether you can support this from scripture in case I am wrong. I will happily be corrected by scripture. In Christ, Beja |
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272 | psalms... judgement chapter 1 verse 5 | Rev 20:15 | Beja | 225681 | ||
EdB, When our "thought process" contradicts plain scripture it would be wisdom for us to throw our reasoning in the trash. In Christ, Beja |
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273 | psalms... judgement chapter 1 verse 5 | Rev 20:15 | Beja | 225647 | ||
Let me respond to two points from this thread. First, the original post is missunderstanding Psalm 1:5. When it says the wicked will not stand in the judgment, it does not mean they won't be present. It means they will perish. It would be like saying, "I was unable to stand before his onslaught." It means you were overcome by it. Second, Revelations 20 does indeed say that they are judged. Revelations 20:12,13 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were JUDGED from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were JUDGED, every one of them according to their deeds. (caps mine of course.) It specifically says they were judged and it specifically says that the judgment was according to their deeds. Not simply on the basis that they rejected Christ. In Christ, Beja |
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274 | Who is revealing God's wrath? | Rom 1:18 | Beja | 225583 | ||
wick08, It seems to me, that in Romans 1, that the depravity being spoken of in Romans 1:26 is clearly God's punishment for their idolatry. Now from a more complete biblical study we know that there was already an existing depravity that spurred this sin, but here we seem to see God allowing a further depravity as punishment. It is important to note this is not God putting a greater sin into their hearts, but rather this is God letting up on his actively restraining the sin already there. So the punishment is God ceasing to restrain, so that they heap up greater judgment upon themselves. However, I suspect that the revelation of God's wrath referred to in this chapter could possibly extend beyond chapter one. In Christ, Beja |
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275 | God can't die or look on sin! | Matt 27:46 | Beja | 225435 | ||
EdB, Welcome back to the forums and thank you for your kind words. I think you are correct concerning Christ's words from the cross being an echo of the earlier words by David in the Psalm. I think He intended to allude to the entire psalm. One that goes into detail about his torment but ends with confidence in God's ultimate deliverance. In Christ, Beja |
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276 | God can't die or look on sin! | Matt 27:46 | Beja | 225424 | ||
CDBJ, We have to ask, what is it that scripture means when it says "He hath made him to be sin." Does it mean that in some way the actual nature of Christ changed? Did his body or form change as our sin was imputed to him? I think we'd agree not. Did in some way his being disposed to righteousness rather than sin change? I think we would agree not. In what sense was he "Made sin" for us? I would argue that this merely means that he was ascribed the punishment and guilt of our sin in a legal sense. Nothing in his nature changed, but merely his legal standing as guilty or innocent before God was altered on our behalf. Then comes the phrase that God can not look upon sin. This as I said in a previous post, means that God must punish sin, not that he in some way can't observe it. It means he can't stand by idly and ignore it. So then, God acted in punishing our sins in Christ. Therefore at no time was the nature of Christ changed nor did any problem arise in the union of his two natures. This is how I understand these things for what it is worth. In Christ, Beja |
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277 | God can't die or look on sin! | Matt 27:46 | Beja | 225416 | ||
CDBJ, Honestly I think we are missunderstanding what is being taught. What are we saying in that God can't look upon sin? Are we saying He isn't aware of it? Ofcourse not. Are we saying that he is physically turning his face away? How can He when he isn't physical? The notion that this is teaching that God can't in some way be aware of sin or turns his face is an error in my estimation. The point is that he can't stand by idly. He can't just look at it; He must judge sin. He must deal with it. Which is exactly what He did. There is therefore no puzzle to be answered. What was the second person of the trinity doing while the Father imputed sin upon Christ? He was suffering and dying for that sin. In Christ, Beja |
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278 | when we die are we go atraigth to heaven | OT general | Beja | 225291 | ||
Godsaves, Indeed it does. I believe that is revelation 20 that you are referring to. To my understanding, when we die, we are present with the Lord at that time but we are not yet in our final state. We won't yet have our final ressurection bodies. I think this is supported by the scriptures I referred you to and in addition 1 Thesselonians which says when Christ returns his saints will be with him. 1 Thess 4:14. So we are already with him, then he returns with us, and then we are ressurected. I believe the picture is that we are going to be reunited with our current bodies (although greatly changed) on the day of the ressurection. But in the mean time we are with the Lord in some other temporary arranged body. In Christ, Beja |
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279 | scriptues for the falsely accused? | 2 Tim 3:12 | Beja | 225091 | ||
Is there any better illustration of what you just told him, and specifically regarding his particular question, than the story of Joseph found in Genesis? In Christ, Beja |
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280 | Will Jews make it to heaven? | Rom 9:1 | Beja | 225048 | ||
Inquisitor, I've been looking again at the passage in John which you quoted, trying my best to see it through your eyes. I've been asking myself, if I had your theological beliefs, what in this passage would have caused me to think it defends my view? And I think I might have found it, though I'm still not certain. Perhaps your line of thinking whent something like this: "He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him." Now perhaps looking at that your thinking goes along the lines of: it appears that John is saying that our love for Jesus, which is manifested in our keeping His commandements, seems to be prior to and the cause of God's love for us. Now, if that is what you meant to show by this verse it would be tremendously helpful if you would in addition to the verses actually give us also that interpretation so we know what it is you are trying to say by the verses. Now, if that is what you are trying to show I'd respond in two points. 1.) The IF/THEN notion here is not by any means necessarilly causal. The one who keeps my commands(loves me) will be loved by my Father. There is no notion here that it is our love/obedience which causes the Fathers love, even though such phrases (in the absence of other clear scriptures) could be interpreted that way. John is merely expressing that love of the Christ, obedience, and His love for us all go hand in hand. They are present together or absent together. 2.) Is our love/obedience the cause of God's love, or is God's love the cause of our love/obedience? And can I answer it from scripture? Well, we are quoting John, lets allow John to clearly state the answer for himself. 1Jn 4:19 We love, because He first loved us. Here we have a sentence where John is explicitly teaching which is the cause and which is the effect. So John here sheds light on the previous passage we looked at (John 14). Can we find other scripture to support this? I believe we can. Rom 9:10-13 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac,though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad--in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls-- she was told, "The older will serve the younger." As it is written, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated." Now look at this passage. It says here that God loved Jacob specifically with no regards for any actions he had done either good or bad. God here goes out of His way to show that his love for Jacob preceeded anything he could have done. And we can not argue foreknowledge without harming Paul's entire arguement. Paul is striving here to show that human actions in no way caused God's choice/love here. And Paul concludes from this: Rom 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. I hope this is sufficient to establish that God's love precedes and is the fountain of our love, not the other way around. Also, I apologize for my last post. I still think my assertions in the last post are correct, I simply wish I had been more kind in how I asserted them. In Christ, Beja |
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