Results 241 - 260 of 1928
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Results from: Notes Author: Reformer Joe Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
241 | Could cain do well? | Gen 4:7 | Reformer Joe | 79864 | ||
You left part of it out, sniper: "For he did not mean to intimate that our ablution and salvation are perfected by water, or that water possesses in itself the virtue of purifying, regenerating, and renewing; NOR DOES HE MEAN THAT IT IS THE CAUSE OF SALVATION, but only that the knowledge and certainty of such gifts are perceived in this sacrament. This the words themselves evidently show. For Paul connects together the word of life and baptism of water, as if he had said, by the gospel the message of our ablution and sanctification is announced; by baptism this message is sealed. " "We have a proof of this in Cornelius, the centurion, who, after he had been previously endued with the graces of the Holy Spirit, was baptised for the remission of sins, not seeking a fuller forgiveness from baptism, but a surer exercise of faith; nay, an argument for assurance from a pledge. It will, perhaps, be objected, Why did Ananias say to Paul that he washed away his sins by baptism, (Acts 22:16; cf. ch 9:17-18) if sins are not washed away by the power of baptism? I answer, we are said to receive, procure, and obtain, whatever according to the perception of our faith is exhibited to us by the Lord, whether he then attests it for the first time, or gives additional confirmation to what he had previously attested. All then that Ananias meant to say was, Be baptised, Paul, that you may be assured that your sins are forgiven you. In baptism, the Lord promises forgiveness of sins: receive it, and be secure." Calvin was not an advocate of baptismal regeneration at all. He did stress its importance as a sacrament (as a sign and confirmation of salvation by faith alone), but never ascribed regeneration to baptism. A couple of other things to mention: 1. Calvin sprinkled, and Calvin baptized infants. I don't think his views can be portrayed to be nearly as close to yours as you might have suggested. 2. Not everyone who holds to the doctrines of grace agree with Calvin on the Lord's Supper and baptism. One can be classified a "Calvinist" without agreeing with everything in Calvin's Institutes. --Joe! |
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242 | What exactly must a person to be saved? | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 79862 | ||
"I did not mean to say you were a fool. " I am not bothered by that, so let's stick to the subject. Do the verses I quoted specifically tell us to train our children or not? --Joe! |
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243 | What exactly must a person to be saved? | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 79861 | ||
"In the Calvinistic way, I understand that God made me alive, raised me up, seated me, brought me near. Am I closer to Him? Yes. Did I do it that I should boast? No. So it looks to man like works, but isn't." What church do you attend that teaches election and no resulting obedience? --Joe! |
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244 | What exactly must a person to be saved? | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 79860 | ||
"If theologians and authors and preachers accurately teach faith only I'll listen." The Reformers, to whom we owe the restoration of "faith alone" to the church, spoke out vehemently against your views. I am talking about Martin Luther and John Calvin. "Isn't that what Ephesians 2 says? I think so." Well, you think wrong. --Joe! |
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245 | What exactly must a person to be saved? | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 79859 | ||
I think what he means is that you disregarded all the Calvinists I cited because they are "not in the Bible," and then you voice your support of Calvin (or, rather, what you hold to be Calvin), despite the fact that Calvin is "not in the Bible," either. He was pointing out your inconsistency. --Joe! |
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246 | Robots? | Gen 4:7 | Reformer Joe | 79808 | ||
"Your statement is a bit flippant" It was, and I apologize. "I think you know that I do not view discipleship as something to be entered into lightly." Nor do I. "Being a slave to Christ is a choice" Specifically, we were discussing whether being a slave to sin was a choice for the unsaved. Why would Paul utilize the image of slavery if what he were really talking about is merely free human preferences? --Joe! |
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247 | What exactly must a person to be saved? | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 79806 | ||
Heh. --Joe! |
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248 | Could cain do well? | Gen 4:7 | Reformer Joe | 79803 | ||
"Calvinism is absolute truth." And what you have been posting on this Forum regarding works is definitely something with which Calvin would never agree. --Joe! |
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249 | Robots? | Gen 4:7 | Reformer Joe | 79802 | ||
"Your argument is not with me. My robot question was addressed to inhisname. inhisname definitely believes in the robotic nature of man. And, anyone else who believes that men will only love and worship God when God makes them believes in the robotic nature of man." No, you are mistaken. Even if you disagree with the biblical doctrine of man's radical fallenness, it is an incorrect assessment to conclude that all those who do hold to that teaching believe that humans are robots. Unregenerate people sin because they desire to sin. They can decide in what ways they are going to sin, and even refrain from some sins for sinful reasons. What they are morally incapable of doing is pleasing God. They do not want to do it, and they are incapable, apart from the Spirit's work, of wanting to do it. Speaking of the Spirit's work, you never responded as to how the Spirit works through the word. You said that you were not convinced by the Spirit of God, but rather you were convinced by the word of God through which the Spirit works. What does the Spirit do through the word? "Man can chose to be a slave to sin or a slave to Christ. Since I am not a robot, I have chosen Christ." That's interesting: you equate slavery with human autonomy, as if a slave were merely an employee who applies for a job and quits whenever he wants. --Joe! |
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250 | What exactly must a person to be saved? | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 79779 | ||
' "With all due respect?" Have I not discussed the Bible? Have I not referenced Bible?' You have mentioned Romans 10:9. You have mentioned Philippians 2:13. You have mentioned Ephesians 2:8-9. You came to conclusions about those passages which do not fit with the passages I have given in our discussion. You have not taken a single one of them and explained how the passages telling Christians to obey aren't REALLY telling Christians to obey. 'You did not answer my question "Abraham got righteousness by faith alone. Where are the works there?" by saying "Resulting from his saving faith". That means nothing to me, maybe you can explain it better.' Okay, I will try: One wrong approach is: faith plus works results in justification Another wrong approach is: faith results in justification and no works The biblical approach is: faith results in justification AND works "You cannot tell me that I'm saved without a work from first to last and then start telling me it's all about works." When did I say it is ALL about works? To say that you are wrong in asserting the Christian life is a life without obedience is not to say that it is all about works. "If you now expect a disciple to obey then you expect works." And God expects works! What did Jesus say to His own disciples? "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments." --John 14:15 'And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, TEACHING THEM TO OBSERVE ALL THAT I HAVE COMMANDED YOU; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."' --Matthew 28:18-20 So what are disciples supposed to do? OBEY God's commandments. How can we do that? By FAITH and by the power of God's Spirit working in us. Jesus clearly expected his disciples to DO something besides sitting around and thinking to themselves, "I believe; I really do!" If you do not obey Jesus, you do not love him as you should. "My understanding of Romans is that salvation is by faith only until death. I don't think you mean to suggest different." No, I do not mean to suggest anything different. What I mean to say is that true faith in Christ results in our obedience to him. It is the God-honoring EVIDENCE that we are truly His. Lack of obedience to Christ is an indcator that someone does not have faith in Christ. --Joe! |
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251 | What exactly must a person to be saved? | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 79778 | ||
Obviously we are not on the same page, as you and I disagree completely on the place works has in the life of the believer. --Joe! |
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252 | What exactly must a person to be saved? | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 79770 | ||
"Christians can't sin and they can't lose their salvation." I sin every day. 'But now you say, "train your children to be servants of God." A true understanding of Scripture shows this is folly.' Folly? Folly...where do we see a great deal of discussion of wisdom and folly? Oh, I know: Proverbs. "Train up a child in the way he should go, Even when he is old he will not depart from it." --Proverbs 22:6 So who is the foolish one for suggesting that we train our children to be servants of God? Let's see if any of the other thousands of Bible verses support such a "foolish" idea... "If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." --Joshua 24:15 "These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up. You shall bind them as a sign on your hand and they shall be as frontals on your forehead. You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates." --Deuteronomy 6:6-9 "Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord." --Ephesians 6:4 Yes, what a fool I am! :) "But when given a new heart, the Holy Spirit did this, then reading brings understanding." But such understanding is not automatic. There are plenty of Christians who disagree on what the Bible teaches. Both have the Holy Spirit, but they both can't be right. "The truly born again can't DO sin." So you are sinless? --Joe! |
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253 | What exactly must a person to be saved? | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 79768 | ||
"The change looks like works is God's workmanship." Does it hurt your wrists to twist the Scriptures that much? Where do we see anything in Ephesians 2 that "looks like works, smells like works, but isn't works"? You are doing anything but glorifying God by your statements. --Joe! |
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254 | What exactly must a person to be saved? | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 79767 | ||
"You call me antinomian? Like I'm against God's law? What law do you believe in? I don't see John Piper in the Bible. I don't see Jerry Bridges in the Bible. I don't see Charles Spurgeon in the Bible. I don't see J.C. Ryle in the Bible. I don't see Westminister Catechism in the Bible." And I don't see inhisname in the Bible either. So the question is whether the above mentioned individuals or you are accurately portraying the Biblical view. "I quoted Bible and don't think I should be attacked by these people." Don't panic. Since all of the people I quoted, with the exception of Bridges and Piper, are at home with the Lord now, I don't think any of them are attacking you. "I gave you Paul." You gave me one verse of Paul, which I contend you misunderstand. I have given you a lot more of Paul than you have given me (as well as several other inspired authors of Scripture), and you have ignored every single passage, choosing instead to repeat your same mistaken assertions. "I don't need writings of man to define what I believe." But you are in need of teachers to help you understand Scripture better. Your claim that the doctrine of election completely eliminates our obedience is simply false, as the authors and theologians and preachers that I quoted adequately demonstrate. And if you take the "all I need is me, the Holy Spirit, and my Bible approach," you again are in error. God gave you the church and its teachers for a reason. --Joe! |
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255 | What exactly must a person to be saved? | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 79766 | ||
"You call me antinomian? Like I'm against God's law? What law do you believe in? I don't see John Piper in the Bible. I don't see Jerry Bridges in the Bible. I don't see Charles Spurgeon in the Bible. I don't see J.C. Ryle in the Bible. I don't see Westminister Catechism in the Bible." And I don't see inhisname in the Bible either. So the question is whether the above mentioned individuals or you are accurately portraying the Biblical view. "I quoted Bible and don't think I should be attacked by these people." Don't panic. Since all of the people I quoted, with the exception of Bridges and Piper, are at home with the Lord now, I don't think any of them are attacking you. "I gave you Paul." You gave me one verse of Paul, which I contend you misunderstand. I have given you a lot more of Paul than you have given me (as well as several other inspired authors of Scripture), and you have ignored every single passage, choosing instead to repeat your same mistaken assertions. "I don't need writings of man to define what I believe." But you are in need of teachers to help you understand Scripture better. Your claim that the doctrine of election completely eliminates our obedience is simply false, as the authors and theologians and preachers that I quoted adequately demonstrate. And if you take the "all I need is me, the Holy Spirit, and my Bible approach," you again are in error. God gave you the church and its teachers for a reason. --Joe! |
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256 | What does this mean: James 2:21-23 ? | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 79697 | ||
"What does this mean? Because I believe that all men are utterly sinful and God can't even look upon them, then I know that man can do no work." If you are talking about unregenerate man doing works that glorify God, you are right. Being born again is a change in our natures, however. "God is Sovereign and He can't be resisted, correct?" He is resisted all the time. Every time I sin, I resist God. No one is successful at thwarting God's decree, however "Since Abraham did work then it must no be his strength or will." Not his strength, but definitely his will. "So God is the cause and gets the credit. This verse talks about faith and works. Ephesians says faith is the gift of God." And goes on to say that we were saved for the PURPOSE of works. Philippians 2:13 says God does the works in me. Does it? "So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure." --Philippians 2:12-13 Who obeys? Who works out their salvation in fear and trembling? God works in us, but the result is that WE will and WE work for His good pleasure. --Joe! |
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257 | What exactly must a person to be saved? | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 79696 | ||
"Read about the teaching of what is called election. Then you will see the truth." As anyone who has been on this Forum for any length of time, I adhere to the Reformation teaching on election. And the antinomianism you are espousing ain't it. Let me quote a few things that those who hold to election have written: "Question 76: What is repentance unto life? Answer: Repentance unto life is a saving grace, wrought in the heart of a sinner by the Spirit and Word of God, whereby, out of the sight and sense, not only of the danger, but also of the filthiness and odiousness of his sins, and upon the apprehension of God's mercy in Christ to such as are penitent, he so grieves for and hates his sins, as that he turns from them all to God, purposing and endeavoring constantly to walk with him in all the ways of new obedience." --Westminster Larger Catechism "If the Bible be true, it is certain that unless we are 'sanctified,' we shall not be saved. There are three things which, according to the Bible, are absolutely necessary to the salvation of every man and woman in Christendom. These three are, justification, regeneration, and sanctification. All three meet in every child of God: he is both born again, and justified, and sanctified. He that lacks any one of these three things is not a true Christian in the sight of God, and dying in that condition will not be found in heaven and glorified in the last day. "It is a subject which is peculiarly seasonable in the present day [which for the author was the latter 19th century]. Strange doctrines have risen up of late upon the whole subject of sanctification. Some appear to confound it with justification. Others fritter it away to nothing, under the pretence of zeal for free grace, and practically neglect it altogether. Others are so much afraid of "works" being made a part of justification, that they can hardly find any place at all for "works" in their religion...In a day like this, a calm examination of the subject, as a great leading doctrine of the Gospel, may be of great use to our souls." --J.C. Ryle, _Holiness_ 'If there be a man that can misuse the dignity of grace which Christ has given him, and pervert that into an argument for licentiousness, he is not to be found among us. He must be something less than man, fallen though man be, who would infer, from the fact that he has become a Son of God by God's free grace, that therefore he ought to live like a son of the devil; or, who should say, "Because God has ordained me to be holy, therefore I will be unholy." That were the strangest, oddest, most perverted, most abominable reasoning that ever could be used. I do not believe there is a creature living that could be capable of using it.' --Charles Spurgeon "God wants us to walk in obedience, not in victory. Obedience is oriented toward God; victory is oriented toward self. This may seem to be merely splitting hairs over semantics, but there is a subtle, self-centered attitude at the root of many of our difficulties with sin. Until we face this attitude and deal with it, we will not consistently walk in holiness." --Jerry Bridges, _The Pursuit of Holiness_ "The test of whether our faith is the kind of faith that justifies is whether it is the kind of faith that sanctifies." --John Piper So which one of the people above, all well-known believers in the doctrine of election, agrees with your anti-works theology? None, because it is incompatible. We were chosen for more than just a trip to heaven; we were chosen to glorify God in obedience to him. Read Hebrews 11 and try telling me that faith and works have nothing to do with each other. --Joe! |
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258 | What exactly must a person to be saved? | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 79694 | ||
"Don't you see that faith and works don't go together and faith without works is what saves?" Where in Scripture do you see that faith and works do not go together? Where do you see that a faith that doesn't result in works is what saves? "If I start teaching my family to work then I am telling them not to trust in God." That is 100 percent unbiblical. If you teach them to work in order to earn their way to heaven, that would indeed be telling them not to trust in God. But it would be a demonstration of faithlessness on your part to not train your children to be servants of God. True faith results in works. True faith leads to obedience. Anything else is a false, dead, non-saving faith. "He saves me by faith alone and by nothing else." Okay, but we are not saved by a faith that doesn't move us to obey. "He gives me faith and He renews me and He gives me repentance and he gives me obedience. " All true, but who does the obeying? IT ISN'T GOD. The love of Christ compels me. God is at work in me. God gets the glory for the renewed nature and the obedience. But God does not obey Himself; I obey God. "If you see me and think I am obeying I'm not. Like an invisible force field God is drawing me and controlling me." Scripture? "If works come then God is doing them." Scripture? "All I do is nothing, because God does it all." You know the question I am going to ask. --Joe! |
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259 | Robots? | Gen 4:7 | Reformer Joe | 79671 | ||
"It sounds like you and inhisname have found a point of agreement." Of course I agree with him on some points. I agree with you on some as well. "That sounds to me like somebody said something about being forced." No, being forced to do something implies a desire to do other than what one is forced to do. Sinners don't desire to follow God, but that doesn't mean that they are able to on their own, either (Romans 8:6-8). "I was persuaded and convinced by the word of God through which the Spirit works." I agree that the Spirit works through the word (see, told you we agreed sometimes!). What is the work of the Spirit through the word to which you are referring? What does He do? "God grants repentance? I thought God granted forgiveness when we repented." He does both: "He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins." --Acts 5:31 'When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life."' --Acts 11:18 "The Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will." --2 Timothy 2:24-26 You wrote: "Peter told the crowd to repent... in order to receive the gift..." He certainly did. "I don't see him teaching the crowd to wait around until God granted repentance to some of them so that they could then obey." Neither do I. Those who were not granted repentance were not waiting around for it. "Under your view we are mere robots waiting for God to grant repentance and give us the power to obey." I thought I explained that erroneous perception in my last post. By the way, whose slave are you? "It must be very pleasing for God to have created a people that will worship him when he makes them." It pleases Him infinitely to redeem for Himself a people for His own possession from the mass of sinful humanity that has rebelled against His authority and holiness. --Joe! |
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260 | Could cain do well? | Gen 4:7 | Reformer Joe | 79649 | ||
You oversimplify. 'So David said to Joab and to the princes of the people, "Go, number Israel from Beersheba even to Dan, and bring me word that I may know their number."...God was displeased with this thing, so He struck Israel.' --1 Chronicles 21:2,7 "Now the LORD was angry with Solomon because his heart was turned away from the LORD, the God of Israel, who had appeared to him twice" --1 Kings 11:9 "Your eyes are too pure to approve evil, And You can not look on wickedness with favor. " --Habakkuk 1:13 "You shall not behave thus toward the LORD your God, for every abominable act which the LORD hates they have done for their gods; for they even burn their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods." --Deuteronomy 12:31 "For I, the LORD, love justice, I hate robbery in the burnt offering; And I will faithfully give them their recompense And make an everlasting covenant with them." --Isaiah 61:8 "'Also let none of you devise evil in your heart against another, and do not love perjury; for all these are what I hate,' declares the LORD." --Zechariah 8:17 "Yet this you do have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate." --Revelation 2:6 God is pleased to demonstrate His holiness and his justice, and we can even say biblically that God ordains that evil arises for his own glory, but that is not the same as saying he is pleased with our sinful ways. Thank YOU for trying! :) --Joe! |
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