Results 21 - 40 of 189
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Results from: Notes Author: keliy Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
21 | Jewish law during the millenium | Bible general Archive 4 | keliy | 221267 | ||
Hi Meta and Watchman, could you be thinking of Daniel 9:27? -not exactly the millenium, however it does suggest sacrifice has been resumed in the Temple. As to Daniel Zewditu, maybe the Jews law in question is referring to the "Mosaic Law" ? |
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22 | Jewish law during the millenium | Bible general Archive 4 | keliy | 221296 | ||
Hi Beja, I was wondering if you could answer a question for me on this post. Are you saying that the church age and the 1,000 years exist in the same time frame? blessings, keliy |
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23 | Jewish law during the millenium | Bible general Archive 4 | keliy | 221297 | ||
Hi meta, I don't want to come across as gruff, but when you said: "Christ and His Church sounds good to me" -in reference to the new temple, I believe: That is a misleading statement that will lead to misleading doctrines. Because, if we are THE temple, then what seat does the antichrist sit in and claim to be God? I know that Scripture teaches that our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, but is that not saying that there are many temples besides the one spoken of? Don't get me wrong, I understand, and sympathize w/you. You said you have more questions than answers. And that is good. We all do that. Or, at least we should, because it has been said that the only barrier to the truth is to think we already know it. To challenge the word millenium because of the fact that it does not appear in Scripture is a weak argument. Sorry, but the word trinity does not appear there either, do you believe in the Trinity? -nor does Missionary, Rapture and Bema Seat. Yet they exist. Apostle Paul instructs us to: Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. (2Tim 2:15) It is my belief that this is where amillenialists fall short. By not studying and learning the correct meaning of passages, we can come up with as many interpretations as we have Bibles. Do you understand, meta? I also posted to beja, for clarification on his term, so please, remain in touch. I would like to continue this discussion, because we are all here to learn, and you pose some interesting avenues (o: keliy |
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24 | Jewish law during the millenium | Bible general Archive 4 | keliy | 221305 | ||
Good verses, Doc Thanks for the support! I recognize Beja as a spiritual man, and a faithful supporter of the SBF. But how can anyone miss the things that are told in Revelation, such as what happens before the 1000 yrs? First what must happen is there needs be an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the abyss and having a great chain. Then satan is bound for 1000 yrs. and those who had part in the first resurrection will be reigning with Christ for 1000 yrs. This is my reasoning for believing the 1000 yrs have not begun yet. Is it possible to be misled in the chronology? |
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25 | Jewish law during the millenium | Bible general Archive 4 | keliy | 221313 | ||
Thanks again doc, will look next at those charts. But, just because the dispesational theology is relatively young, that is no reason to discount it, is it? The geographic reference should not limit its validity either, should it? Is not America blessed by God? I understand that to be fascinated by prophetical issues could be unhealthy, but -is it unhealthy to study the Book of Revelation, since it is the Only Book to come with its own divine blessing? Did not God disclose these things through John to be revealed to His servants for them to be used by Christ in extending and advancing His cause among men? I understand the matter is not a simple one, which is why I continue to study. Thanks for your help. keliy |
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26 | Jewish law during the millenium | Bible general Archive 4 | keliy | 221324 | ||
Okaay, So, can you tell me what will happen when the 1000 yrs end? Yes, a lot of discussion happens in an hour, doesn't it! |
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27 | Jewish law during the millenium | Bible general Archive 4 | keliy | 221329 | ||
Hi Beja, so I thought, too, that Rev 20 laid it out pretty well. May we look at vss 1-3: "Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and satan, and bound him for 1000 years; and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time." If as you say, that we are presently in the millennial reign of Christ, then is that different or the same as the 1000 years mentioned in the first 3 verses of chapter 20? shalom, keliy |
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28 | Jewish law during the millenium | Bible general Archive 4 | keliy | 221340 | ||
Very interesting, Beja So the way I have believed is that we are in spiritual warfare (Eph 6:12) and the three enemies that attempt to dissuade us are: our flesh, the world, and satan. My belief is that we are nearing the end of the church age, and satan is ramping up his forces in this world because he knows that he does not have much time left. The way I understand you, is that satan is presently bound (in the abyss), so that presently, we have two enemies that war against our soul, which are: our flesh and the world. Am I reading you correctly? In Him, keliy |
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29 | Jewish law during the millenium | Bible general Archive 4 | keliy | 221344 | ||
Well, I think I am aware of what I am saying. The problem I believe is the nature of this electronic format, which eliminates body language which projects the mood of what we are saying. I actually believe that God is in heaven smiling as we toil over His Word, trying to get it straightened out in our feeble minds. This should not be a divisive issue and we should not reject anyone for how they interpret these things. The basic point is that we are saved by His Blood. We will find out one day that the answer is not one or the other, but somewhere in the middle, or maybe even outside the box. However I do believe that we should study, and be diligent in our studies. We should scrutinize what we are taught, as the Bereans did. So shall we use discernment with our teachers. I am not trying to say anyone is right or wrong, but I will say if someone is saying something that is contrary to what I believe the Bible is saying. And it is alright for us to imply that someone is staining gnats because that is how we learn. We are here to learn. This is how we grow. In Him, keliy |
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30 | Jewish law during the millenium | Bible general Archive 4 | keliy | 221351 | ||
Thank you, pastor Beja. I have always enjoyed your posts, but for some reason they just never sat well in my mind and I continue to strain to find out why. Sorry, I am trying to learn, and having been to many classes on Revelation, things are becoming as clear as mud. Many times I see people site the Book of Revelations, and I just cringe. Because if they do not even have the Title correct, how can they understand the obscure message of it.? Revelation is a Singular Revelation, not plural. And it is what the name implies, a Revealing, -not a covering-up. I believe that the key to understanding the Book of Revelation is to understand the rest of the Bible. When you say that satan is unable to deceive the nations, (Gk, ethnos), I do not think this word is meant to be understood as 'governments' or 'territories', but as 'peoples' -such as in multitudes. How then can the devil be waliking about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour, if He is unable to deceive us? How can satan attempt to deceive the very elect, if possible? These are New Testament teachings and since you have already told me when the end of the 1000 is to come, can I ask you to tell me when the beginning of the 1000 started? Because I think the amill view is that it started at the Cross, which would force me to discount some verses. Are those verses also symbolic? I am taking the literal sense here, and forgive me if I am wrong, but Rev 20:3 (KJV) states, "And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled. I think satan IS put somewhere that he can be sealed. To take this symbolically means we are opening up God's Word to the point where the final message of God would be called, "The Book of Interpretations" -plural, not singular Lord Bless you and yours, keliy |
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31 | Jewish law during the millenium | Bible general Archive 4 | keliy | 221352 | ||
Thank you, Meta, I just want to say that I did not take your post personally, but this post delighted me nonetheless. (is the post afterward called the "metapost"?) Blessings to you and yours, keliy |
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32 | Jewish law during the millenium | Bible general Archive 4 | keliy | 221360 | ||
Hello Beja, Very interesting, thank you for your answers, and your responses. Sorry, I must admit I did not receive a lot of clarification. When you say that you, "can't respond as to what other verses you mean when you haven't told me which ones.", Well, I guess I did quote the verses, but did not tag them with a reference. My fault. The scriptural references are, 1Pet 5:8 and Matt 24:24, and the gist was, that satan is in the world, and he is deceiving Christians. Now I would like to address your post: I see it increasingly interesting that when you decide whether the passage is to be interpreted literally or not, that (quoting you), " have a choice. I can say to all these passages in scripture from a variety of genres, "No No, none of you can be understood literally and we must add at least a 2000 year gap in you." Or I can say to one single passage in revelation, which is a book absolutely full of things meant to be taken in a symbolic way, "This one is the one passage not to take literally." To me I take scripture as a whole far far more literally by taking the amillenial position." The interesting point, is that the one passage that is the deciding passage concerning the 1000 year reign, (Rev 20:1-3) is the one that you choose to take symbolically and say that it has been going on for 2000 yrs and is still going. I see it as quite literal from the passage that satan IS bound in a sealed 'abyss' (elsewhere translated as 'bottomless pit") and this is literally explained as: 'so he cannot deceive the nations'. But you say he still has access and he is presently deceiving people that are in the nations. And you say that you are taking the passage literally? This I see as a definition of the difference between exegesis and eisegesis I see the seal placed over satan as being much more effective than the seal on Jesus in Joseph's tomb, but hey, that is just me and my presuppositions. You imply that this seal is as effective as a screen door, because satan still is working among us in the duration of the 1000 yr reign. I appreciate your view, and although I might seem skeptical of it, I will try to remain open and remember this thread during future discourses. I will stay with my reading of Scripture, at least for now. When it says that satan is 'prowling about' that does not say to me that he is doing this from a sealed pit. I will try to remain sober and vigilant because of him (1Pet 5:8) as I do further studies to try to understand more thoroughly. Blessings to you and yours in Christ, keliy |
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33 | Jewish law during the millenium | Bible general Archive 4 | keliy | 221362 | ||
Dear Beja, Thank you, no apologies are necessary whatsoever. It is very hard to come to agreement on a Forum such as this, and not talking face to face. As I said earlier, this should not be a devisive issue, so I do not wish to just go separate ways on this, but remain as christian participants in an ongoing discussion that has not been concluded as of yet. It is best to agree to disagree for now and let the Spirit work in us as our Lord sees fit. I feel bad if I took up too much of your time, most pastors have this day off. I know, God's work is never done, but as humans allof us need a balance. So lets leave the subject open for discussion in another thread. Agreed ? Lord Bless keliy |
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34 | Jewish law during the millenium | Bible general Archive 4 | keliy | 221366 | ||
Hi lighted steps, thank you for your comment, now I am totally in agreement with Beja. (o: I am glad there were others that got uplifted from our lively discourse. As I said earlier to Meta, My belief is that we are unable to pin the answer down, and come into full agreement, because neither one of us is right. The answer likely lies somewhere in between, or possibly outside of the box. We will know the answer soon enough, when we discover it in glory. Our Lord's thoughts are just that much higher than ours. confer Isa 55:9 Lord Bless, keliy |
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35 | Lucifer's fall from grace | Bible general Archive 4 | keliy | 221912 | ||
Hello Azure, You have quite the discerning eye, and I commend you. I am sorry for any misunderstanding, but the problem is with Lockman's program, which is otherwise one of the best I have seen. I had gone to my brother's house and when I logged in as keliy on his computer, it does say, 'welcome keliy' in the log-out option box. But when I posted, the thread says that the post did not come from keliy It must be the cookie stored in the son of our mother's computer that causes the post within the thread to be identified as sonofmom. Please do not judge according to laws written by Lockman Foundation. to cause my brother to be in violation, and jeopoardize his privelege to enjoy this forum is not a problem with mis-posting. I might have to sign in under my brothers name to avoid further confusion, which would be dishonest, since this program does not allow two different users on his computer. please accept my apologies for any confusion. Lord Bless, keliy |
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36 | I just started reading the Bible and.... | OT general | keliy | 211316 | ||
Hi Pete, thanks for responding, I have no problem with your timing, it is a non-issue with me, and it is always good to hear from you. Your questions are quite challenging, and thought provoking and that is why I come to this forum when I can. You asked: how then are we to know at what precise time our faulty wisdom is not faulty. That is an excellent question. But, if we could answer that, our wisdom would not be faulty, now would it? (o; What I said was, 'When there appears to be anything amiss, it is always us who possess the faulty wisdom and not God." -The key here, is "appears" and it suggests an impression that could be an erroneous one. (I think, therefore I err) In response to your next question, on Deut 13:10, you wrote, "He commands us to kill our brother or any other family member if they try to entice us away from Him" I would bring up certain rules of hermeneutics here relating to cultural context but time and space being limited, I will give you the short answer and if you still are at a loss, I would appreciate another reply. What the author is trying to get across here, concerns the dangers of idolatry. In the prior chapter (12:30,31) he had warned following in ways of the Canaanites. In this chapter he is warning against the rise of idolatry from among themselves. Satan often uses people that are closest to us as tools to draw us away from God. A stranger would be far less likely to have an effect, satan well knows. When the seducer does appear, as a brother, child, parent, or whatever, he must not only be strongly resisted, but also punished by the law of the land. In that culture, I believe it was getting stoned to death. This was to be done not hastily, or privately, but after proper trial and conviction; and you, as informer, would be given the duty to cast the first stone. So Pete, when you do have a question like this, it is good to go back into the time and culture of the original author and the original language to translate for yourself, -after praying for understanding, and God will be faithful to help your understanding become more complete. We are actually commanded to do this, in 2Tim 2:15: Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. (NASB) Is rendered in the (KJV) as, Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. Notice, for example, where the NASB writes "accurately handling", is in the Greek, "orthotomeo" Let us get an answer from: A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, by Arndt and Gingrich (p. 584), The Greek word orthotomeo is found once only in the New Testament, hardly enough to dogmatically state it means "dissect," and the authoritative source—A Greek-English Lexicon—says perhaps it means "guide the word of truth along a straight path." This is ample proof that to translate orthotomeo as "dissecting" is STRICTLY AN INTERPRETATION. Furthermore, the Septuagint shows the King James Version translators correctly rendered it "divide." I need to split this into two parts for sending, -More to follow (o: keliy |
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37 | I just started reading the Bible and.... | OT general | keliy | 211317 | ||
Pete, Sorry for the interruption, I exceeded the maximum characters. Here is the rest of my letter: You also asked, "why didn't God kill Lucifer way back in time before all of this mess began?" This goes back to the beginning of God's plan, and why did God, who knows the end from the beginning, ever create Lucifer in the first place? (?!) A parallel question would be, Why did God even put that tree in the midst of the garden if Adam and Eve were not to eat of it? Again, God knew beforehand exactly what would happen. These questions lead up to this: "Why did God even give us the Freedom of Choice? Without the alternatives I just mentioned, would there be a Choice? Could we possibly choose not to sin if sin did not exist, and therefore there was no temptation? Could we ever make a valid decision for ourselves? The answer is quite simple to understand, If there was no choice, there would be no true Love. We would be as robots. God could have made us into holograms that walk around saying, "I love You" all day long, (but I think you get my point.) You also stated, "The Mosaic law of not killing applies to everyone, so to use the argument that we are no longer under the law is baffling." Yes, baffling is a good word here. But Sometimes the laws are broken for the greater good, such as putting a murderer to death. I always try to remember that God is sovereign, He created life, and it is up to Him to decide if a certain life should continue or not. What we look at as a horrible tragedy might be a good thing in the big picture of God bringing His will to us. This is hard, I know, but His ways are higher than our ways. (Isa 55:9) On the other hand, being no longer under the law, I was referring to Jesus' 2 greatest commands. As Jesus said, If ye love me, keep my commandments. (John 14:15) There is no way we can keep the commands of Jesus and break one of the ten commandments at the same time. You mentioned your quote about Mark 10:21, "sell all that you have, give to the poor, follow him" and then you comment, "He died for all of humanity but only the Jews need to sell everything they own" This, again, needs to be looked at in context, what is God's purpose for that line being in the Bible. If we each interpret this passage on our own, well then we end up with as many interpretations as we have readers. God's Word is much more truthful than that. The context of this verse is a person coming to Jesus with a question: And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? (Luke 18:18) Jesus responded as He did, because the man was asking what he could DO to inherit eternal life. Do you get this? There is nothing that we can DO to inherit eternal life, so Jesus gave this ruler something to do that Jesus knew was beyond his capabilities. That salvation by works is something that is beyond human capabilities is the message that Jesus is teaching to us all in these words. And also, any time we take Jesus words at face value, we are likely to interpret Him falsely, this is intentional, our Lord explains in Matt 13:15: For the hearts of this people have grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing, And their eyes they have closed, Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them.' I hope that many of your questions are sufficiently addressed, the ones that are not, are solved by using many of the same principles. Notice how I keep referring back to the Gospel of Matthew? May God continue to Bless you in your studies, keliy I have written this letter longer than I should, because I didn’t have the time to make it shorter. -Pascal |
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38 | I just started reading the Bible and.... | OT general | keliy | 211337 | ||
Pete, you are getting a little free with your quotes of mine, but that is OK, it helps to state your case, and helps me to know your thoughts. I will not be strict with you, but in trying to straighten it out, I will say that when you said, "Your argument of time and culture as a reason God allowed rogue family members to be killed goes against God's nature" that: No, I did not say anything was a reason that 'God allowed rogue family members to be killed' The thought I tried to convey was God ordered that he must not only be strongly resisted, but also punished by the law of the land. Stoning to death was a cruel way to die, but it was the law. The adulterous woman brought to Jesus was about to be stoned to death, but she received a reprieve through the grace of our Lord. That is where the differences of time and culture come in. No, it does not go against God's nature. God often killed people in the OT for what we might call 'minor infractions'. For example, look at 2 Sam 6:3; 6:6 and 6:7. So they set the ark of God on a new cart, and brought it out of the house of Abinadab, which was on the hill; and Uzzah and Ahio, the sons of Abinadab, drove the new cart. ...And when they came to Nachon's threshing floor, Uzzah put out his hand to the ark of God and took hold of it, for the oxen stumbled. Then the anger of the LORD was aroused against Uzzah, and God struck him there for his error; and he died there by the ark of God. God killed Uzzah, who thought he was doing a favor when the ark teetered, Uzzah reached out his hand to steady it and God took his life on the spot. Can you now See it? Another example is Lot's wife, in Gen 19:26 But his wife looked back behind him, and she became a pillar of salt. God killed her for looking back. What did you say about God's nature? Again, we are living in a completely different culture than in OT times. In a different country, over 2400 years ago, things were way different. We are living now in a new Covenant with God, the Covenant of Grace. Just because God does not wipe people out for minor infractions in our lifetime does not mean it never happened, it did. It continued in the NT, in acts 5:3, 5:5, 5:6, But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? Then Ananias, hearing these words, fell down and breathed his last. So great fear came upon all those who heard these things. And the young men arose and wrapped him up, carried him out, and buried him. And in 5:10, his wife who was his accomplice in the lie, walked in and suffered the same fate. Then immediately she fell down at his feet and breathed her last. And the young men came in and found her dead, and carrying her out, buried her by her husband. Now, really Pete, Ananias and Sapphira sold a possession, and lied about the price they received and were killed without trial. Are you still standing on the grounds that no one would ever be killed for trying to sway a family member into idolatrous practices, because it is against God's nature? How about a single angel wiping out 185,000 assyrians in one night? (2 Kin 19:35) That should change some people's perception of nice, gentle golden-haired angels, should it not? In the Old Testament God appears overly harsh but His reason could likely be to demonstrate the exacting requirements of the Law. This also demonstrates the need for grace that would eventually be manifested on the cross. In the relative comfort of our modern society much of this violence seems reprehensible yet we can conclude that this harsh requirement was a necessary legality to instill obedience. I really hope your comprehension of God's character and propensities is growing, and you are not just becoming more thoroughly confused. (o: In His service and yours, keliy |
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39 | I just started reading the Bible and.... | OT general | keliy | 211339 | ||
Pete, I really feel like I am getting to know you, but there is no personal profile on record for you. Can you write a small paragraph to tell us on the Forum what church you attend, if you do, and where are you in your walk? When you wrote, "There are many people in the world today who do not sin." I would like to ask you to name one of them. We never have to be taught how to sin, just think if you ever saw a two-year-old scream "NO!" to its parents. I heard a sermon once where the speaker, an instructor at a Bible College, said that everyone of us breaks every one of the Ten Commandments every single day. Hearing this, a student in the front row piped up, "Professor, how could we break the commandment of keeping the Sabbath Day holy, when today is Tuesday?" The Prof responded with, "Young man, the 4th command states, 'Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work. But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God' Now, when you are sitting in your chair, goofing off when you are supposed to be learning, you are breaking the 4th Commandment!" So, do you see? The standard of God is perfect holiness. We are completely unable to ever attain that standard. We are completely insufficient to even be in God's presence without the righteousness of Christ. It would be like fire and water trying to occupy the same space. There is only one person on earth who never sinned. And that is Jesus. Amen and Lord Bless. keliy |
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40 | Love for all, judge not anyone | OT general | keliy | 213115 | ||
Hello KcabmI4 I agree with you that the person writing to the paper doesn't have a clue. But neither do the ones who are reading his blather. Many who have unformed opinions will agree with him. You asked what was the agenda, There it is. The sad part is, you can't unring a bell. Yes, the words have been unleashed, and whatever damage is done, our Lord knows. But there is something you can say to answer him. We are not defeated. You said if we answer him, satan will only bring more. Exactly. That is our service in this world, and our service will be judged in the refiner's fire. I once wrote a reply to a local column by Joel NcNally, and the paper published it. My reply was longer than his original column, and I prayed over my submission, that my bell would ring louder than his. I felt I had done my part. Most of the other times that Joel raised my ire, I let my fellow christians know about it, and that accomplished nothing. Is anything known about the author, you ask? No, and it does not matter. His name is printed as Solmon Smith,and he is just one in a long line, prowling about while serving the enemy, who seeks out whom he may destroy. Remember, "we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. " (Eph 6:12) The only way to defeat this foe is by using the Word of God. It was the only weapon used by Jesus in Matt 4, when the tempter came to him after a 40 day fast, In an attempt to lure Jesus into sin, said, "If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread" Jesus simply answered, "It is written...." -to all 3 powerful enticements, and satan was defeated. So as Solomon Smith said in his published letter, "Can Christians be any more clueless about what the bible says? This is the fault of Christians, not Mr. Smith. We as the Lord's servants are ordered to "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." (2 Tim 2:15) And the Old Testament Command: "And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart. "You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up. "You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes. "You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates. (Deu 6:6-9) This is how we must answer people like Smith who call us "shallow" as he proclaims,"The truth is human decency and compassion are what guide us in following the universal law of love. It comes from the heart." We as Christians know "The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?" Jer 17:9 So, we must be diligent in our studies. Thank God for forums such as this, where we can fortify ourselves against these relentless onslaughts. God Bless, and Bless God! keliy P.S. if, as you say, we are unable to legislate morality, then lets take all police officers of the force, because they are wasting taxpayer's money. |
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