Results 21 - 40 of 58
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
21 | Water baptism unnecessary for conversion | Acts 2:38 | arrow1 | 113938 | ||
I've always disliked that word denomination. I grew up in a small town, in a Lutheran church, my grandfather was even a minister in another town nearby. After moving to Des Moines, IA. I attended a small nondenominational church. A few years later attended an Assembly of God church where I came forward at an "altar call", a couple of years later began attending an Evangelical Free church where I was baptized by immersion in front of 450 members on a Sunday morning. A couple of years later(being single one gets restless) attended a large Baptist church. A couple years later began attending an International Church of Christ where I was taught "baptism for the forgiveness of sins", and a few years later brings us to the present where I'm back at the Evangelical Free Church on Sundays and on Thursday evenings attend a rather large, rapidly growing, very evangelical Lutheran church. The Thursday service is for singles only(typically draws 300 plus)and has full communion with real bread and "real" wine. During all that I have visited Catholic, Christian Science, Traditional Church of Christ, been to a Benny Hinn crusade, and even studied with Mormons(they will never convert). As you can see I have alot of religious experience so I have a very different perspective on the Bible. One of the most interesting experiences was attending a seminar "Why be Catholic" by Scott Hahn. He was a presbyterian seminarian who studied the Bible so extensively he converted to Catholicism. The most fascinating books of I've read are those by David Bercot, he seems to be an expert on the early church. I've found there is no perfect church. I'm puzzled why there is no mention of an age of accountability or infant baptism, or baptism of children and/or teenagers of Christian parents in the Bible. Baptism for the forgiveness of sins is so crystal clear to me, I'm not sure how people miss that one. It appears so many verses that mention baptism have to be picked apart, disected, third person plural pronouned to death in order to not conflict with "faith alone", a phrase which isn't even in the Bible. My biggest question on that(concerning baptism) is why wasn't any translation ever translated to say what it means in plain Ennglish, crystal clear, no interpretation necessary. I was hoping to hear back from morant61 on my post 113859, tues. 12:16 am. I thought I did a good job on that one. Also would love to find just one Christian writer from the very early church who held the faith alone view. Oh, to answer your question, Christian. |
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22 | Water baptism unnecessary for conversion | Acts 2:38 | arrow1 | 113849 | ||
I found it interesting in Eph.1:12-13 the absence of "faith alone" and "repentance". I know trust can be interpreted as faith, but still you seem to be picking and choosing verses to "fit" your doctrine. If one can look at baptism as an act of faith and not a work of the law then the verses that speak of being baptized into Christ make more sense. Saved by Grace through Faith at Baptism. I take all the verses that mention faith, all that mention belief, all that mention repentance, all that mention baptism, and all that contain different combinations of any of those words and find great harmony. God does all the "work", He shows the grace and mercy, He bestows the forgiveness and gives us the Holy Spirit. Our part is simply responding to the message or rejecting it. |
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23 | Water baptism unnecessary for conversion | Acts 2:38 | arrow1 | 113847 | ||
Quite easily. Let's start in John 20:22. Jesus gives them the Holy Spirit. Now Acts 1:3 He spends 40 days teaching them. I submit the 12 Apostles are saved. Now go to Pentecost. They are filled with the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues. Did reception of the Spirit save them or was it to enable them to tongue speak. Obviously they were already saved, it simply gave them the ability to speak in tongues. Now go to Acts 11:4, notice the word "precisely". Now go to v.15, as he "began" to speak the Holy Spirit fell. Surely Cornelius was not saved before he heard the message and was able to repent and believe. Notice Peter said in v.15, the Spirit came on "them"(cornelius) the same way it came on "us"(12 apostles) at the beginning. Not the same way it came on the 3,000, or Phillip, or Simon, or the Samarians, or the Ethiopian, or any of the other thousands who were being saved. It came on Cornelius the same way the 12 Apostles received it at Pentecost. Not to save them but to get peoples attention and to give them the abililty to speak in tongues. The Holy Spirit coming on Cornelius's household was to show that God was opening up the Gospel to the Gentiles. That was the whole purpose of Peter's dream and this story. God was now granting the Gentiles the opportunity to hear the Gospel and repent. Preaching the Gospel to the Gentiles was a huge obstacle to overcome for the Jewish Christians, thus God did something miraculous. Just like at Pentecost, He was ushering in the new church with power. Notice they were required to respond to the Gospel by being baptized in Jesus name, the same way everyone else responded when they heard the message. |
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24 | What does baptism consist? | 1 John 5:6 | arrow1 | 113829 | ||
sorry, I did not recognize the funny face | ||||||
25 | Water baptism unnecessary for conversion | Acts 2:38 | arrow1 | 113806 | ||
In my response I did not say he was saved at baptism(although that is my view). I simply stated his sins were washed away at a later time after he met Ananias and after he regained his sight. I was simply refuting your claim he was saved back when he met Jesus. Again my question was "why did he need his sins washed away if he was already saved? That's all I wanted a response to. The challenge was to show someone who was saved beyond 1 hour of his baptism. Again my point was simply his sins were washed away when he arose and called on the name(if you want to say his baptism came later fine)it still happened in conjuntion with his rising and calling, not 3 days prior on the Damascus road, which is when you claimed is when he was saved. | ||||||
26 | Water baptism unnecessary for conversion | Acts 2:38 | arrow1 | 113775 | ||
I would equate Titus 3:5 to John 3:5. Two elements, water and spirit, one birth. Water Baptism and "receiving" the Holy Spirit are two sides of the same coin, they are inseperable, (Acts 2:38). With your view, you have two distinct baptisms, in water and in holy spirit, which would seem to contradict Eph. 4:5. Don't confuse receiving the indwelling of the spirit and baptism in the spirit. Acts 8:14, they had accepted the word of God and had been baptized(water)in the name of the Lord Jesus. Surely those people in Samaria were saved Christians. Later the apostles went there, placed hands on them, and gave them some spiritual gifts(most likely the ability to speak in tongues) and then Simon, whom who note in verse 13 believed and was baptized, asked if he could buy the gifts he had seen them receive, (he probably heard them tongue speaking). Obviously my view is not that water in and of itself is some majical salvation agent. Saved by Grace through Faith at Baptism. God does all the "work" and the saving, I am simply responding to the gospel by repenting and being baptized in the Lord's name. It's all done as a one time act of faith, not a work of the law. Once saved I continue to work out my salvation with trembling and fear and stand firm to the end. I continue having faith. |
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27 | Water baptism unnecessary for conversion | Acts 2:38 | arrow1 | 113759 | ||
Eph. 4:5 states one baptism, it must be the baptism of the Great Commission for it is commanded of Christ and is administered by men. Holy Spirit baptism and speaking in tongues(pentecost and Cornelius for example) was a promise fullfilled, but not a command of Christ. Once water baptism is recognized as the "one baptism", now all the baptism verses begin to make sense. Baptized into Christ, buried in baptism, baptism now saves you also, be baptized and wash your sins away, etc. |
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28 | Faith plus Baptism or Faith alone? | Matt 7:13 | arrow1 | 113754 | ||
Someone offers me a check for 1mil, says it is free, no strings attatched. The check is buried in the back yard 3 feet under the apple tree. If I go dig it up, did I earn it or is it still a free gift. I submit it is still free. Someone gives me 1mil for my birthday, I didn't earn it, however, I had to meet the condition to receive it, namely it was my birthday. Same with baptism, I repent and get baptized as a response to the Gospel, God freely gives me salvation, I simply met the condition to receive it. I know we're beating a dead horse, but that's how I see it. I do appreciate this forum, it is interesting and most everyone seems to be thoughtful and cordial. Thanks, arrow1 |
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29 | Faith plus Baptism or Faith alone? | Matt 7:13 | arrow1 | 113751 | ||
The biggest disagreement each view has seems to be is baptism a work. I don't believe it is ever called a work or a symbol or an outward sign in the Bible(correct me if I'm mistaken). Jesus did say "this is the work of God, to believe in the one He sent. That's interesting, calling belief(faith) a work. I think in Eph. 2:9 he is referring to works of the law. I've always viewed baptism as a spiritual act of faith whereby you receive something(grace) not a work whereby you try to earn something. | ||||||
30 | Water baptism unnecessary for conversion | Acts 2:38 | arrow1 | 113746 | ||
Yes, you receive the Spirit and are saved during baptism in water. Repentance and water baptism in his name are your response by faith to the gospel. God does all the work. By grace he forgives you and gives you the Holy Spirit. Water baptism is simply an act of faith whereby you are recieving something from God, not a work to earn something. Col. 2:12 explains in water baptism Christ is spiritually circumcising you. Roman 6:3 shows it is not a ritual but an actual participation in his death, burial and resurrection. | ||||||
31 | Water baptism unnecessary for conversion | Acts 2:38 | arrow1 | 113745 | ||
You cannot say Saul was saved back on the road to Damascus during his encounter with Jesus, you said back on post 78221 that he was, even if we assume calling on the name is when he was saved, he was told to arise and have his sins washed away when he met Ananias, this happened much later. He was fasting and praying for 3 days, then he met Ananias, then he regained his sight, then he had the sins washed. If he was saved back in the encounter with Jesus, why was he later told to wash his sins away. Also, his baptism obviously took place within an hour of his arising and calling on the name of the Lord, so you are incorrect in the challenge you were offered. | ||||||
32 | Faith plus Baptism or Faith alone? | Matt 7:13 | arrow1 | 113735 | ||
you Must believe you Must repent and you Must have faith , by your own definition, those are all works | ||||||
33 | Do you have to be baptized to be saved? | Rom 6:3 | arrow1 | 113733 | ||
yes, you need to respond to the gospel message | ||||||
34 | What does baptism consist? | 1 John 5:6 | arrow1 | 113727 | ||
What kind of an answer was that? Please re-read my question. | ||||||
35 | baptism important ,why the delay? | 1 John 5:6 | arrow1 | 113726 | ||
So you are saying that today we have the Bible, and when a mature Christian shares his faith with a non-christian, he does not have the commands of Christ fresh in his mind and heart and is incapable of baptizing a person right after conversion to show a "new birth" has taken place. That makes absolutely no sense | ||||||
36 | What does baptism consist? | 1 John 5:6 | arrow1 | 113683 | ||
Things have gotten harder(different is probably a better word). Today we must believe in the Death Burial and Resurrection of Jesus. He is the "only" way to the Father. The thief did not have the priveledge of hearing the full Gospel message of the D,B and R. and that one could recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit. Remember the Spirit wasn't given until after He was glorified. One could possibly argue we are saved in a slightly different way. The Gospel is new and the chance to receive the holy spirit is new. |
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37 | baptism summed up....... | 1 John 5:6 | arrow1 | 113666 | ||
Look, I'm not trying to be beligerent here, but can you please stay with my specific questions. You initially brought up the verse in Romans. I asked a specific ? about that verse. I wanted to get your view on where you see in Romans it is saying baptism is merely symbolic. I take Romans 6:3 literally, you don't and that's fine. I'm merely trying to get your specific view on what it is saying. | ||||||
38 | What does baptism consist? | 1 John 5:6 | arrow1 | 113627 | ||
Okay, we are not getting anywhere on that one. Maybe we can agree on this. According to the Great Commission, we are commanded to make disciples and to baptize them and teach them. Obviously, all Born Again Christians are to be baptized. If that is so, why is it that in every example of coversions in the NT, baptism followed preaching of the gospel immediately, it was never delayed. Today however most "Christians" are baptized months and years after their conversion. Why is that. Are they all taught improperly, are they lazy, are they embarrassed to acknowlegde God before men, are they afraid to get wet, why is it so acceptable today to casually put off something that was so obviously important in the early church? |
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39 | What does baptism consist? | 1 John 5:6 | arrow1 | 113617 | ||
Thanks for replying, Makarios You are completely missing the point. How could you possibly require the thief to be baptized when the Great Commission has not yet happened, and Jesus has not yet been resurrected. That makes no sense. Of course he had no chance to be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, it had not yet been commanded. |
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40 | What does baptism consist? | 1 John 5:6 | arrow1 | 113610 | ||
Yes, and many of those verses mention nothing of repentance. Surely you are not going to say it is unimportant or not required. | ||||||
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