Results 21 - 40 of 281
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Results from: Notes Author: Parable Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
21 | Pledge, "under God", WWJD? | Bible general Archive 2 | Parable | 105947 | ||
With all due respect to Tacitus, Seward, Kennedy and Lincoln, their sentiments are not scripture. While I agree with everything you have said, you have not offered a clear position nor biblical support leading to one. I do not preclude disobedience to civil authority as a form of obedience to God. However, according to Scripture, the state is ordained by God and for Christians, there should be compelling biblical reasons to oppose it. So far, I have not heard any. Peace, Parable |
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22 | Pledge, "under God", WWJD? | Bible general Archive 2 | Parable | 105949 | ||
You said "the question is not what would Jesus do, the question is what should a follower of Christ do?" I say a follower of Christ looks to Him for direction, courage and strength. Accordingly, I have offered a position and biblical support for it. Regarding the "what if's", this is not about hypothetical situations, the question is real and it is before us now. We are not talking about legislating morals, we are talking about a specific challenge to a specific practice. There are many Christians who vehemently oppose even having the dialogue, let alone submitting to the authority of the State should it come to that. As for this submission, and for pledging allegiance to a nation, Jesus said to give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar and give to God what belongs to God. So, if you were a Supreme Court Justice with the Constitution in one hand, and as a Christian with the Bible in the other, how would you vote and how would you justify your vote on whether "under God" shall remain in the Pledge of Allegiance? Peace, Parable |
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23 | Pledge, "under God", WWJD? | Bible general Archive 2 | Parable | 105994 | ||
The question of civil disobedience as an option is not the issue. Rather, it is the question of whether or not "under god" should be removed from the Pledge of Allegiance and if Christians should obey if the Supreme Court rules it to be unconstitutional. According to Kalos, post #105993: "The applicable biblical principle seems to be that civil disobedience is only acceptable, and perhaps even required, when it is to protect innocent human life." I submit that those who seek to remove "under God" from the Pledge may be innocent in need of protection, misguided as they may be. Of course, it is debateable if this is a life or death issue, but surely the defense of the constitution often has cost people their lives. Parable |
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24 | Pledge, "under God", WWJD? | Bible general Archive 2 | Parable | 106026 | ||
Interesting approach. You seem to suggest that doing what may be deemed unconstitional is ok because there is no law expressly forbidding it. The problem with this idea is the constition is the highest law of the land, higher than any legislation Congress may pass. Indeed, the constitution is the standard by which all congressional acts are measured. More importantly, in our spiritual lives, isn't this line of thinking how we often delude ourselves into justifying what we want instead of what is right? |
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25 | Pledge, "under God", WWJD? | Bible general Archive 2 | Parable | 106028 | ||
Actually, I agree with your point. Indeed, in my first post, I suggested that the Pledge is not law, but rather a practice imposed by the force of tradition. The problem is that this practice is imposed on everyone at public schools, which are funded by tax dollars and this where the conflict arises. Sure, you can make the Pledge part of your day at a private school, but tax dollars carry with them the obligations to uphold the constitution. | ||||||
26 | Pledge, "under God", WWJD? | Bible general Archive 2 | Parable | 106104 | ||
I respond point by point: The doctrine of separation is well established and is central to our freedom. The issue is not your individual speech, but the 1954 congressional act that inserted "under God" into the Pledge. The real debate is narrowly defined and has nothing to do with how the constitution is interpreted. Your religious freedom is intact. Americans now enjoy the greatest religious liberty in history. No one here is persecuted for their faith. If you disagree, look at Sudan and then tell me you are suffering for your faith. No mention of God appears in the constitution, by design. The framers were careful to avoid this. While the creator is mentioned in the Declaration of Independence, this document has no standing as law. Congress opens with prayer out of tradition, just like the Pledge. It is the job of the Supreme Court to interpret the Constitution in terms of the document itself and precedents set by earlier courts, not to imagine what the framers intended. This is because the intent of the framers is not law. The Pledge, said every school day by millions of students, teachers and administrators is much more than a "mention". Again, your freedom of speech is not the issue, but rather the imposition of speech on those who may not believe as you do. Peace, David |
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27 | Pledge, "under God", WWJD? | Bible general Archive 2 | Parable | 106113 | ||
What do you suggest the framers intended? | ||||||
28 | Pledge, "under God", WWJD? | Bible general Archive 2 | Parable | 106122 | ||
My concern is that if the Supreme Court decides that congress' act to insert "under God" is unconsitutional, how many Christians will respect that ruling by acting in a manner that reflects WHY the court reached that decision. Yes, you are free to say "under God", but don't skirt the issue by saying that you're not coercing others to say it with you. For all practical purposes, young students are completely powerless to oppose what the teacher makes them do in class. Regarding your persecution in high school, I suspect that it was not the content of your speech, but rather the time, place and manner you delivered it that got you in trouble. From my experience here at a university, I suspect your persecutors would suggest you were disrupting the institution. Not that I agree, but that's how I expect they justified their actions agains you. |
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29 | Pledge, "under God", WWJD? | Bible general Archive 2 | Parable | 106124 | ||
'one nation, under god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all" is meant to be the ideal we strive for, not the reality we enjoy. We are far from "indivisible, with liberty and justice for all" Parable |
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30 | Pledge, "under God", WWJD? | Bible general Archive 2 | Parable | 106136 | ||
Regarding your persecution, clearly your teachers acted inappropriately. As a Christian, you can rejoice that you have been chosen to suffer for Christ! Like you, I see what is happening with our culture. At a university, I am witness to how it plays out in the lives of our young people. I guess my concern was prompted by decidedly unchristian comments that were very uncharitable toward those who dare to challenge the powerful majority. |
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31 | Pledge, "under God", WWJD? | Bible general Archive 2 | Parable | 106181 | ||
I was hoping someone would challenge my statement and your response is quite excellent. Your examples show that when taken too far, by people who don't understand the law, legalism leads to abuse. This supports my view that many Americans really don't have a clue about how our system is supposed to work. Sadly, many Christians sometimes fall into that same habit. Cases which test us against our principles, like the "under God" case, will help strengthen our country, not weaken it. |
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32 | Pledge, "under God", WWJD? | Bible general Archive 2 | Parable | 106194 | ||
No doubt you make a good point. My concern is how Christians respond to the authority of the state when they disagree. |
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33 | Pledge, "under God", WWJD? | Bible general Archive 2 | Parable | 106195 | ||
The worms wiggle when you open the can, don't they? | ||||||
34 | Pledge, "under God", WWJD? | Bible general Archive 2 | Parable | 106200 | ||
this is true, but this logic is not what the "under god" issue is about. in your analogy, the logic would then be if abortion were illegal, you wouldn't go ahead and have one anyway, right? |
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35 | Pledge, "under God", WWJD? | Bible general Archive 2 | Parable | 106240 | ||
For me, the issue boils down to whether we as Christians, in this particular case, will submit to the authority of the state, which scripture says God has ordained, or if we will obey a more personal understanding of His Will, sometimes known as moral conscience, which He has planted in our hearts through His Word and Spirit. |
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36 | why does God allow evil to exsit | Bible general Archive 2 | Parable | 138989 | ||
My summary of his conclusions does not do justice to his derivation from scripture and his application to real world evil. For example, one of his most compelling examples is the case of Nazi concentration camp guards who gang rape a young girl, then gouge out her eyes. Hardly "strictly verbal means". Boyd's ideas speak directly to the unlimited depravity that evil can manifest. His explanation is gut-wrenching, not noble, and accounts for all manner of real evil, not the abstract concept some people have who have not seen it personally. As for meeting evil, no explanation or system of thought is adequate, rather the only defense is Jesus Christ, his love and goodness. We are called to overcome evil with His goodness. Peace |
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37 | 2 followups, masturbation and 1Cor7:2-5 | Bible general Archive 1 | Parable | 46182 | ||
I will pray on your answer. For now, though, I must respond to the charge of using scripture in an attempt to justify a sinful act. You gave your interpretation of 1Cor7:2-5a, but you did not address verse 5b "Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control." What is Paul's intent with 5b? I look forward to continuing our dialogue. Grace and Peace to you Makarios, Parable |
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38 | 2 followups, masturbation and 1Cor7:2-5 | Bible general Archive 1 | Parable | 46885 | ||
Part 1, Makarios, You have supported your position well; your interpretation of the scriptures you cite is most righteous. And your points about the potential risks associated with masturbation are insightful and important. I feel your comments deserve my best effort, so I have tried to respond in a meaningful way. Thanks for your patience with the length of my response here. (and no, I did not write this in one sitting!) I hope you will be interested in what I have to say, especially about how masturbation has been part of something good in my life, see part 1 of 3. Regarding myself, I recognize there are many who are far wiser and far more mature in Christ than I am, so I am open to what you and others have said about masturbation. Indeed, much of what you describe about purity and holiness I see happening in myself, as the Holy Spirit does His miracle in me, so to answer one of your questions, I do have a desire to grow in purity and holiness, so masturbation is not big on my list for today. In that spirit, however, I must admit I am not convinced that what you have said about masturbation, i.e. that it is always sexual immorality and sin, necessarily follows from what you have presented. I'm not saying your interpretation is wrong or that what you say cannot be accepted, indeed you may be right, but rather that it is not the only interpretation that we, as vessels for the Holy Spirit, may hold. To support this, I note that in the following 18 instances (listed in The Complete Book of Bible Lists, by H.L. Wilmington), in which sexually impure people are identified, not one is described as impure by virtue of masturbation or anything like it: Gen19:5, Gen19:30-38, Gen34:1-2, Gen35:22, Gen38:9, Gen38:14-18, Num25:6-14, Judg16:1, 1Sam2:22, 2Sam11:4, 2Sam13:14, 2Sam16:22, Hos 1-2, John 4, John 8:1-11, Luke 7:36-39, 1Cor5:1, Rev2:20. Rather, the issues are homosexuality, incest, rape, adultery, refusal to father a child by the wife of a dead brother, fornication, sex in the tabernacle and in public, and leading others to sexual immorality. Please note: I'm NOT encouraging anyone to masturbate or do anything else they feels God calls them not to do. Given this, I am concerned that the zero tolerance approach, as applied to masturbation, 1. may be a stumbling block for those who might otherwise come to faith in Christ and 2. it is not helpful to those who may be dealing with masturbation as they learn to walk with Him. Indeed, I fear it may actually be harmful to those for whom guilt over this is excessive; in addition to God's truth, they need compassionate understanding in order to fully accept God's grace and forgiveness and to be open to the process of sanctification by the Holy Spirit. I'm not suggesting masturbation should be dismissed as irrelevant, for we agree there are serious problems that can develop, as is the case for eating and drinking. Rather, I'm suggesting that since the Bible does not expressly classify masturbation as sexual immorality or sin, we should help others to deal with it in a way that does not condemn them, as per Romans 8:1 "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death." We can be assured of this, despite our daily failures to live pure and holy lives after coming to Christ, and it is this truth that helps us to grow toward perfection in Him as we allow the Holy Spirit to work in us. As I see it, I am emphasizing that those who masturbate are not necessarily condemned, i.e. not necessarily among the sexually immoral because the Bible does not say this, while you have rightly addressed the freedom we have from the law of sin and death and this is how we become pure and holy. end of part 1 of 3 |
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39 | 2 followups, masturbation and 1Cor7:2-5 | Bible general Archive 1 | Parable | 46888 | ||
start of part 2 of 3 Next, I'd like to respond to certain of your comments and questions to me. You said: "I would still direct you to 1 Thess. 4:3-7." OK. Here it is, complete with the Bible Gateway footnote: "3It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; 4that each of you should learn to control his own body[1] in a way that is holy and honorable, 5not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; 6and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. The Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you. 7For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life." Footnote [1] reads -- 4:4 "Or learn to live with his own wife; or learn to acquire a wife." This meaning for the word "body" implies the point is to keep sexual contact limited to one's spouse, i.e. to avoid adultery and fornication, as practiced by the heathen. You said: "Please read 1 Corinthians 6:12-20. Your body is not your own to do with as you please! You have been bought with a price." Here it is: 1Cor6:12-20 "12Everything is permissible for me"--but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me"--but I will not be mastered by anything. 13"Food for the stomach and the stomach for food"--but God will destroy them both. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also. 15Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! 16Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, "The two will become one flesh." 17But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit. 18Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. 19Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body." Verses 12 tells me that not everything is good for me and I should not be a slave to anything. I concur. In verse 15, mention of the prostitute seems to again emphasize that the nature of immorality most certainly includes joining flesh with others. Of course, Christ said such sin begins in our hearts, so depending on what is in the heart, masturbation may be to adultery/fornication what anger is to murder and what greed is to stealing. You said: "And also, to use 1 Cor. 7 to justify masturbation is a blatant attempt to misapply Scripture to justify a sinful act. Do you worship and idolize your wife in such a way that you misuse your own body parts for her glorification? Or is it simply the indulgment of sinful flesh?" As I said earlier, I'm not trying to encourage or justify masturbation, but rather understand what the Bible says and does not say about it as compared to what people say the Bible intends. end of part 2 of 3 |
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40 | 2 followups, masturbation and 1Cor7:2-5 | Bible general Archive 1 | Parable | 46892 | ||
start of part 3 of 3 About my wife I said "...whom I love dearly". Worshipping and idolizing her are not loving, so the answer to your first question is "no, I don't worship and idolize my wife". For reasons not appropriate to discuss here, my wife and I have not been able to enjoy sexual intimacy for several years, surely a time longer than Paul means when he says "for a while". This has not been by mutual consent, as Paul suggests, but rather of necessity, and it has been difficult for both of us. Yet I have remained faithful, patient and loving. For me, thinking of my wife as my only sexual partner has helped me avoid the temptation to be with others. What makes this real is I have options if I wanted to pursue them. At least for now, occasional masturbation is how I maintain some semblance of sexual intimacy with my wife. Of course, its not a meaningful substitute for the real thing, but until such time as it is possible for us to do come together, it reinforces my desire for her to be my only partner. I acknowledge this is not ideal, but I do feel fidelity is what God is calling me to do and how I occassionally experience my passion for her is not sin and in fact helps keep me from sin. Perhaps this is an example of how "all things work for the good of those in Christ Jesus" -- Romans 8:28 You said: "Many men who I have known have fallen prey to the sin of masturbation, only to see their marriages falter and their sins multiplied into pornography.. Such disgusting consequences of a "seemingly" harmless or unnoticable sin are brought out into the open when the door to that sin has been crossed and, now, other sins, such as looking at other women besides your wife, now suddenly become much more desirable to you than before." I never said masturbation was "seemingly" harmless or unnoticeable, I said it was "unseemly". Regardless, I agree the problem you describe is real, but it has not been the case in my situation. You said: "Do you truly see no harm in it? Do you have no inclination or leading to give it up? Can you honestly say that you have experienced great spiritual growth while practicing masturbation? Masturbation is not wholesome, not edifying, not healthy to your marriage, and it is certainly not something that you want on your conscience as not being 'repented of' when you have to give an account of yourself to the Lord." I see the potential for harm, yet I believe in my case it has been part of preserving my marriage. You said: "But I have written here about how I honestly perceive the subject of masturbation, and I believe that it will prove very costly to your marriage if not discontinued, my friend and brother in Christ." This may be true, but to date, it has not become excessive or lead me astray, quite the opposite in fact. You said: "Just a few weeks ago, the youth pastor of our church got up in front of the entire congregation and confessed to his sin of masturbation, and we have begun an accountability group that consists of myself and several others, to keep this dear friend and brother in the Lord on 'the cutting edge' of his spiritual relationship with God. Also, his wife is very supportive of helping her husband deal with this problem, which is a great blessing!" I will pray for your youth pastor, his wife and your group. To be honest, I am disturbed by the idea you and your group think you can do anything to keep anyone on the "cutting edge" of a relationship with God. Yet, if masturbation has become a problem for your youth pastor, it is good for him to deal with it and if your group can help him, praise God! Finally, in all sincerity, I am wondering if the following 2 verses are part of what you teach in this group: Mark 9:43 "If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. 45And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. 47And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out... My interest lies in the possible mis-interpretion that a sexually immoral person should castrate or otherwise mutilate themselves in order to avoid sin if they can't seem to avoid it in any other way. And, Matthew 19:11 "Jesus replied, "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it." which seems to suggest that continence is not intended for everyone, but only those "who can accept it". Grace and Peace. Your brother in Christ, Parable |
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