Results 1 - 17 of 17
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Results from: Notes Author: Joseph3 Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Spreading the gospel | NT general Archive 1 | Joseph3 | 89738 | ||
Greetings 4givn! Hey, I just read your post and I can really understand where you are coming from. God saved me five years ago out of a life that was anything but glorifying to Him. With that past, I do many times feel as though my house needs to be in order before I can share with others the Good News of the cross. I have come to realize that idea is self-centered! You see, I can’t save a soul, it is the Spirit of God that regenerates and illuminates a sinful, lost soul unto repentance. I know this from when God pulled me out of the morgue and made me alive in Christ! What made me, all of the sudden, after years of doubt and idols, turn form my wicked ways and start worshipping Christ? Was it something I mustered up in me? Of course not! It was the Spirit of God taking out my heart of stone and giving me a heart of flesh (Eze. 11:19, 36:26). He granted to me repentance and faith (Eph. 2:8-9, Acts 11:18). So, how do these Scriptures tie into spreading the Gospel? Simple, it is God who saves, we are simply the messengers of peace and reconciliation with God. It reminds me of Paul when he was in Corinth in Acts 18. Verse 9-11 says: “One night the Lord spoke to Paul in a vision: "Do not be afraid; keep on speaking, do not be silent. For I am with you, and no one is going to attack and harm you, because I have many people in this city." So Paul stayed for a year and a half, teaching them the word of God.” You see that! I remember the first time I read that and understood what it meant. God has His people everywhere, we should not be afraid to preach and share the Good News because we know He saves and He has people all over the place. We need to be confident in Him, and not in ourselves to preach. Paul said in 1 Cor. 2:1-2: “When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or superior wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.” Paul had confidence in the Cross of Christ to save, not himself. I know on a practical level, personal holiness is something I have strived to do, not only because it pleases God, but also because I think it is a good witness. My parents and brother do not know the Lord. They live ”good” lives no doubt, but they don’t know the Savior. Since being saved, it has been difficult to show them who Christ is because they still think of me as the “old” Joe, even though my life has changed. Here is where personal holiness that is pleasing to Christ comes in. They ask questions as to why I do and don’t do things, and they see Christ and His grace. It is a fine line between showing legalism and showing true obedience to Christ’s words. That is a huge struggle for me!! I’ll be praying for you and I hope you will be encouraged that there are many Christians out there with the same struggles. I like Heb. 10:14: “For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.” This side of glory we are being sanctified into Christ’s likeness (1 Cor. 1:2), so we should also take comfort in Christ’s finished work on the cross because He made us perfect in eternity! In Christ, Joe PS- A really good treatment on the topic of the Christian life is “Holiness” by J.C. Ryle. Here is a link to the book online. It has been a help to me along life’s road… http://www.gracegems.org/Ryle/holiness.htm |
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2 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | Joseph3 | 89667 | ||
Howdy Matt! I’ll try and be brief, but judging from my prior posts, that won’t happen! You said:“You stated that all we have to go by is that these people escaped the world through the full knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.” Actually I didn’t say “full” knowledge, I said simply knowledge. That may be splitting hairs, but I think it is an important point. “The fact that these people in 2Peter 2:20 had the knowledge of salvation, and escaped the pollutions of the world shows that they also must have obtained this through the remission of their sins.” In the context of 2 Peter, to say these false teachers had a true saving knowledge of Christ is a stretch, based on the context. Based on the context of this passage, the false teachers were part of this visible church and heard the gospel preached. They, for all intensive purposes, from the vantage point of that first century church, believed the gospel. They did escape the defilements of the world, they were now in a church where the gospel is preached and the world was not glorified. But, you and I know true faith will produce fruits, and in 2 Peter 1:5-8 Peter lays out fruits that we should be diligently striving for in order to make our calling and election sure. Peter is talking about assurance of salvation here. It is obvious to me that the false teachers never practiced the fruits Peter was talking about. If they did, I don’t see it in the passage. Sure, they escaped the defilements of the world, but the passage never says they had all these fruits and had a full assurance of faith. All the passage says is that they had knowledge of the Savior, they escaped the defilements of the world and they had knowledge of righteousness. Again, in this context, Peter ties true saving knowledge with the fruits and the obedient diligence to practice those fruits listed in 2 Peter 1:5-8. These false teachers didn’t exhibit these fruits. Therefore, to say these teachers had remission of sins and were truly regenerated is a serious stretch, again, based on the context of the passage. “You ask if God will take away what he has freely given? I say "NO" absolutely not.” I don’t think I asked that question specifically, my question is if God makes a promise, does He follow through? I think, based on your answer above, you would say that God does come through on His promises. Would you agree? As well, the question “Can Christ lose a Christian?” did not seem to be answered. Maybe you did and I didn’t catch your point, in that case, I apologize. As well, I asked about the nature of true saving faith, which I think points directly to what the issue is at hand. The false teachers did not have true saving faith because their “faith”, according to the context itself, produced in the end only heresy! As to your discussion about rewards, I am not sure that is the topic we are discussing. The context of 2 Peter is about true believers and false teachers. Maybe rewards could be a topic covered in another thread! “You also ask if true saving faith is even ours to claim? I would say that all faith is given by God so "NO". It is Gods grace that he has written his laws on the tables of every mans heart to know the difference between right and wrong even unto death.” Well, I would have to say that true faith in Christ is a gift from God. Anybody can have faith in things, military, state, self, i.e. idols, but true saving faith in Christ comes from God (Heb. 12:2; Eph 2:8-10). I would reference Romans 1-3 for a discussion about sinful humanity knowing the law, knowing what God commands, but suppressing it and blaspheming God by their depraved minds and wicked actions. I don’t want to read too much into what you said there, so I will not continue down that road. The point I am making in asking the question is that if true saving faith is from God, He will perfect that faith, since He is the Author of that faith. Did the false teachers in 2 Peter have this kind of faith, a faith that God has authored and perfected? Please note, I am talking about true saving faith, not some self-centered faith that pagans have, but real faith, faith that looks only to Christ and nothing else for salvation. “Our faith has nothing to do with Gods mercy.” Matt, how can you say that our faith has nothing to do with God’s mercy? Hebrews 12:2 states that He is the author and finisher of our faith. He authored it and finished it, therefore saving faith is something He makes and gives to us, so we would say it is a gift from God. How does this NOT have anything to do with mercy? God showed mercy by giving us true saving faith, because left to ourselves, we would be groveling in the dark cursing at God about everything! The whole bible is about God’s mercy, and faith has everything to do with it! Check out Romans 3 and 4, Titus 3. I guess I am at a loss to find anywhere in the Bible where it says that faith has nothing to do with God’s mercy. In Christ, Joe |
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3 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | Joseph3 | 89663 | ||
Greetings gracefull! I want to apologize for not answering your question, please accept my apology. I’ll try and answer more directly this time. But, do keep in mind those parables, they have helped me when understanding this portion of Scripture. I think your point is that the same knowledge that the audience Peter is addressing in chapter one is the same knowledge that the false professors had, therefore because they all had the same knowledge of the Lord, they all must have been saved. This is what I gather from your post, but correct me if I am wrong. You quote 2 Peter 1:2-4. So, let’s continue onto the rest of chapter 1 and into chapter 2. I touched on this in my prior post, you may remember. Peter, in the rest of chapter 1, specifically vs. 5-11 describes the logical progression of growing in faith, producing fruit. If you read these verses, Peter lays out a list of attributes in which we as people who profess Christ are to strive for, like: virtue, knowledge, self-control, perseverance, godliness, brotherly kindness and love. Peter then states that if you have these things, you will not be barren or unfruitful in your knowledge of Christ. Peter then makes the point to continue to be diligent lest we lose assurance of our salvation, which he then comes to his conclusion in verse 10. Peter states “Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make you calling and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble.” The point that Peter is making is that if we practice the above list of fruits, diligently striving to be obedient to Christ, we will be sure of our calling and election, i.e. salvation, and we will never stumble. Never is a strong word!! (Note, God is sure who His elect are and the eternal security He gave them (Rom. 8:31-39), but a professing Christian may not always have assurance, this is the area Peter is dealing with…). So, from this Peter them moves into chapter 2 where he deals with the false teachers, who, even though they have the knowledge of Christ, DO NOT produce the fruit that Peter lists in vs. 5-8. They slander Christ, they practice sexual immorality, they deny that Christ will comes back, they abuse liberty in Christ, on and on they simply trample underfoot the cross of Christ. Therefore, they show themselves to be hypocrites, false professors that never strived to be obedient to Christ. A good cross reference to this would be 1 John 2:19. I think the next point you were asking about was the subject of escaping the defilements of the world, escaping the corruption of the world. I don’t think this is too hard to understand. When a person enters a visible body of believers, like a local church, that person is escaping the stench of the world. They come to a church and hear the gospel preached, they have escaped the world, they are in the care of the church, where the defilements of the world won’t be glorified. Do they truly believe? Do they have a desire to follow Christ in humble obedience? We don’t know, we can only tell by their fruits, that’s all, and that is the point Peter is making. These false teachers came into this body of believers, and for all intensive purposes believed the gospel. But, as we see in chapter 2, it has become terribly clear these false professors never truly believed because their fruits are flat out wicked. They denied Christ! That is the classic definition of an apostate (Luke 11:24-26, 12:47, 48; 1 Cor. 10:1-12; Heb. 3:12-18, 6:6, 10:26; Jude 4-6). To top it off, Peter describes these false teachers as dogs going back to their vomit. This picture shows how someone could get rid of the worldly defilements, i.e. the vomit, yet because they never truly believed, they would go back to that vomit!! As well, a sow; which is a pig, swine, or a hog. What is the nature of a pig? You can clean the outside, but inside it’s true nature is for the mud, the dirt, the slop. I could spray a hog clean, but in time he’ll head back to the mud pit. This picture shows that the false teachers’ nature NEVER CHANGED, they where never regenerated, they never truly believed Christ. They put a façade of being believers, but in time their true nature was exposed, their outside was “clean” for a time, but their inward nature was still corrupt. Ok, I owe you an apology. I told you I would be short, and I was not. Please forgive! : ) I hope I have been of some help. Greetings… In Christ, Joe |
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4 | The Rope | John 10:27 | Joseph3 | 89113 | ||
THE ROPE! "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand." -John 10:27-29 (The following is by Arthur Pink) No stronger passage in all the Word of God can be found guaranteeing the absolute security of every child of God. Note the seven strands in THE ROPE which binds them to God. First, they are Christ's sheep, and it is the duty of the shepherd to care for each of his flock! To suggest that any of Christ's sheep may be lost is to blaspheme the Shepherd Himself! Second, it is said "They follow" Christ, and no exceptions are made. The Lord does not say they ought to, but declares they do. If then the sheep "follow" Christ they must reach Heaven, for that is where the Shepherd is gone! Third, to the sheep is imparted "eternal life". To speak of eternal life ending is a contradiction in terms. Fourth, this eternal life is "given" to them. They did nothing to merit it, consequently they can do nothing to demerit it. Fifth, the Lord Himself declares that His sheep "shall never perish," consequently the man who declares that it is possible for a child of God to go to Hell makes God a liar. Sixth, from the Shepherd's "hand" none is able to pluck them, hence the Devil is unable to encompass the destruction of a single one of them. Seventh, above them is the Father's "hand," hence it is impossible for them to jump out of the hand of Christ even if they tried to. It is impossible for a sheep to perish even if it desired to - as though one ever did! The "hand of Christ" is beneath us, and the "hand" of the Father is above us. Thus are we secured between the clasped hands of Omnipotence! It has been well said that if one soul who trusted in Christ should be missing in Heaven, there would be one vacant seat there, one crown unused, one harp unstrung; and this would grieve all Heaven and proclaim a disappointed God. But such a thing is utterly impossible! |
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5 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | Joseph3 | 88927 | ||
Dear New Creature: I find it interesting that you seem to be arguing that God makes a promise, and fulfills that promise, yet at the same time He simply cannot keep it because a sinful human can do the same thing! God is GOD!!! He is holy and perfect!! Man is fallen and sinful and wretched!! Man is unholy and is a liar!! When God says He is going to do something, and I mean DO, not simply hope His promise will come true, it WILL happen. If He states that He cannot lose any that are in Christ, then NONE will be lost! The will of man is not on par with the will of God, simply put. I am amazed at your lack of reverence for the Holy will of God, and for your amazingly high view of human will and ability, especially when the bible does not paint humanity in a good light (Rom. 1-3). The reason for this statement is because over the past few days, many of us in this forum have spent time and effort laying out Scripture simply to show you the majesty and power of the one true holy God. Yet, you still continue to hold onto this notion that the will of man can trump God’s eternal promise to His Son (Titus 1:1-3). I feel as though you have ignored many of the arguments made by John Reformed, Radioman2 and myself concerning this topic. Please, prayerfully consider what we have wrote, and please respond to ALL of our arguments, don’t pick and choose what you want to hear from us, and only respond to parts of what we have said. Please take what we have all said as a whole and consider them. I submit this with brotherly love and concern. In Christ, Joe |
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6 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | Joseph3 | 88896 | ||
Greetings gracefull! Thank you for your comments! Maybe a couple parables of the Lord Jesus Christ will help in the discussion, they have certainly helped me in the time I have studied this topic. Matthew 25:14-30, the parable of the talents. In this parable, the servants were each given a measure of talents while the master was gone. Upon the master’s return we see that the first two servants were obedient and did what the master wanted, they invested their talents and gave back more to the master than what the master had given them. The master then rewarded them equally, not basing the rewards on the talents, but on the heart of obedience. The hearts of the first two servants were in humble obedience to their master, and the master was very pleased! Then comes the third servant. Rather than invest, he just dug a hole in the ground, hid his talent, and waited for the mater’s return. When the master returned, the servant gave an excuse, saying he knew the master was a hard man, so he was afraid and then gave the one talent back. What was the master’s response? Well, let’s just say he was not pleased. He accused the servant of being lazy and being afraid of his master, therefore the master threw the servant into outer darkness (We know Christ would never throw a regenerate believer into outer darkness…). So, we have here three servants, all given a measure of talent. Two were obedient; the other was not and was punished. What this shows is the hypocrisy of the third servant, he never really knew his master, for if he truly knew his master, he would have shown the obedience of the first two servants. Therefore, he is exposing himself to the truth that he was a fraud, and the master knew this and punished him for it. How this ties into 2 Peter is simple. The false teachers showed no obedience to Christ. They clearly were part of this body of believers and partook of the blessings that come with being in a body of believers (i.e. the visible church). But, ultimately they showed no obedience to Christ and it showed in their sinful teachings and actions. 2 Peter is clearly divided between the first chapter, in which the subject is true believers, and the second chapter which deals with the false teachers, people who never really knew the true Savior. The second parable is the parable of the wheat and tares. This clearly states that in the visible church, there are people who are not true believers, the tares, among the true followers of Christ, the wheat. I think this parable is very clear in it’s teaching that there are folks who claim to be Christians, but their hearts are not truly regenerated. To answer your question, it is most certainly possible for people to partake of the blessing s of Christian fellowship. In fact, it is possible to accept the principles of the Gospel. BUT, there are fruits and there is obedience that comes with following Christ. I am not saying works salvation, by no means! My point is that the mark of regeneration is that we love God’s law and we are obedient to Christ (Heb. 8:10). The following quote is taken from a work on this subject by Loraine Boettner. It synthesizes well the point I am trying to make: “Mere church membership, of course, is no guarantee that the persons are real Christians. Not every member of the Church militant will be a member of the Church triumphant. To answer certain purposes, they make an outward profession of the Gospel, which obliges them for a time to be outwardly moral and to associate themselves with the people of God. They appear to have true faith and continue thus for a while. Then either their sheep's clothing is stripped off, or they throw it off themselves, and return again to the world. If we could see the real motives of their hearts, we would discover that at no time were they ever actuated by a true love of God. They were all this while goats, and not sheep, ravening wolves, and not gentle lambs. Hence Peter says of them, "It has happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog turning to his own vomit again, and the sow that had been washed to wallowing in the mire," 2 Peter 2:22. They thereby show that they never belonged to the number of the elect.” (http://www.ccel.org/b/boettner/predest/14.htm) I hope this has been of some help to you. Please check out my other posts on this topic at #88279 and #88451. Let me know what you think! ;-) In Christ, Joe |
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7 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | Joseph3 | 88849 | ||
Greetings Matt! Thanks for the question; I will do my best to answer your inquiry. First off, whenever I read a verse from Scripture and am trying to find out what the verse means, I need to look at the immediate context, the context the letter was written in, and look at the letter in light of the rest of Scripture, the whole council of God’s Word. In the immediate context, it seems clear to me that Peter is speaking to a body of believers, and is specifically discussing the topic of “false teachers”, or some translations have “false professors”. In the context of the whole letter, the letter reads like a admonition, a pleading by Peter to this body of believers to continue to show the fruits, the works that come by faith, and to persevere to the end. The reason why Peter is saying all of this is because there were false teachers within that fellowship. These teachers seemed to be teaching some pretty bad doctrine. For example, here are a few that can be drawn from the text: Somehow using Christian liberty as a license to sin, specifically sexual sin (2:14). They denied the Lord (2:1). They seemed to despise authority and “angelic beings” (2:10). Later, they denied and scoffed at the second coming of Christ (3:3-4) These seem to be just a few of the heretical teachings these false teachers were expounding. Notice also, as a set-up, at the end of chapter 1, Peter explains the difference between true and false prophets. We believe in prophecy from God Himself, in the person and work of Jesus Christ, not from “cunningly devised fables” (1:16 NKJV) of men. And then from this, Peter then begins to speak of the false teachers. Ok, so now we come to the verses in question. Notice that throughout the discourse, Peter is describing the teachings of these false professors and then gets to the point where he makes the statement that although they once had the knowledge of the Savior, they have now returned to their old ways, they have become entangled in sin again, they are like a dog going back to it’s vomit, which is a quote from Proverbs 26:11: “As a dog that returneth to his vomit, So is a fool that repeateth his folly.”(ASV 1901). So, in light of everything Peter lays out in the context of the letter, we have here a set of false teachers who once had escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of the Savior who are now back to their old ways, basically trampling underfoot the cross of Christ. Therefore we have to ask, were these false teachers ever really saved? From the text the only clue we have to go on is the fact that they escaped the world through their knowledge of the Savior. Does knowledge save? Faith in Christ alone saves, but simple knowledge really does nothing. Many people have knowledge about Christ, they know who He is, they may even follow His commandments, they think He is a great teacher, but the one thing these people don’t have is true saving faith. And from this passage of Scripture, I believe it is a serious stretch to say these false teachers, who, let’s face it, were very heinous in their teaching, were ever really saved in the first place. They showed no true fruits because Peter basically lays out what they were teaching and how they were acting, and it was not pretty. I realize much more could be written on this topic, but I will stop here because you asked me for my comments on this text of Scripture, and I have done the best I can with the limited space I have to work with. I will leave you with the following Scriptures to consider as well as an invitation to check out my other posts, #88279 and #88451 concerning the topic at hand. Please read these other posts and let me know what you think. Thank you for letting me share what God has laid upon my conscience!! To God be ALL the glory in the salvation of sinners! In Christ, Joe Is. 54:10; Jer. 32:40; Matt. 18:14; John 3:16, 3:36, 5:24, 6:35, 6:37, 6:40, 6:47, 10:27-29; Rom. 5:8-10, 8:1, 8:29, 8:34-39; 1 Cor. 1:8-9; 2 Cor. 4:14, 5:5, Eph. 1:5, 1:13-14, 4:30; 1 Thess. 5:23-24; 2 Tim 4:18; Heb. 7:25, 9:12, 9:15, 10:14; 1 Pet 1:5; 1 John 2:19, 2:25; 2 John 5:11-13; Jude 24-25 PS- Just a few questions to ponder surrounding this topic: Can Christ lose a Christian? What is the nature of true, saving faith? Is true saving faith even ours to claim? When God makes a promise, do you believe He will follow through on His promise? Two passages to ponder: Col 2:12-14 and Hebrews 10:14. |
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8 | One example of loosing salvation NT | Luke 8:13 | Joseph3 | 88807 | ||
Greetings New Creature! I apologize for jumping right into the middle of this thread! I respect your words and the fact that you are a busy person, so I will not keep you long. You have stated that the idea that a Christian’s salvation is secure is un-biblical. It seems (correct me if I am wrong) that the reason you state for believing this is through prayerful study of the Word. That is great! ;-) Lets come and reason from the Word!! As well, you state that folks who believe that a Christian cannot lose salvation are simply imposing pre-conceived teachings of certain denominations onto the Scriptures. Let me assure you, there are many people who believe things about the Word simply because their church teaches it, but there and many people as well, like me, who believe in this teaching because of what the Scriptures teach. I once believed a true, regenerate Christian could lose salvation, and I really believed it with all my heart! But just because my heart believed it does not make it true (Jer. 17:9). What makes a teaching true is whether the whole council of God’s Word teaches it. Therefore, I would argue from the Scriptures that a true, regenerate Christian cannot lose salvation. In fact, if a person is truly saved and is truly a new creation, they will not have the desire to leave the flock because they know their Shepherd, they will follow the Shepherd all of their days (John 10:14). Rather than type a huge post, I would encourage you to check out posts #88279 and #88451 where I have laid out some thoughts from the Word about this issue. I really hope you check them out and get back to me! If you want, you can send me an email, it’s in my profile. Many blessings to you New Creature!! ;-) In Christ, Joe |
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9 | Boasting in Man Is Doubly Excluded | Is 2:11 | Joseph3 | 88532 | ||
Greetings all, I have felt compelled to post this small essay by John Piper. John is a wonderful writer and pastor with a tremendous heart for the Lord. This essay deals with how any boasting in man is an affront to God’s glory. I pray these words will help you exalt God in your Christian pilgrimage. In Christ, Joe Gal. 6:14 Boasting in Man Is Doubly Excluded (http://www.desiringgod.org/library/fresh_words/2003/030503.html) God loves it when man boasts in God, and God hates it when man boasts in man. "Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord" (2 Corinthians 10:17). "Far be it from me to boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ" (Galatians 6:14). "The haughty looks of man shall be brought low, and the lofty pride of men shall be humbled, and the Lord alone will be exalted in that day. For the Lord of hosts has a day against all that is proud and lofty, against all that is lifted up" (Isaiah 2:11-12). There are two reasons (at least) why God hates for man to boast in man. 1) Boasting in man deflects man’s attention from the Fountain of his joy and so ruins his life. It tricks man into replacing Magnificence with a mirror. Man was not made to admire man. He was made to admire God. The joy of admiration is prostituted and ruined when man tries to find galaxy-size Glory in the glow of his own reflection. God does not like the damage done by boasting in man. 2) The other reason God hates for man to boast in man is this: It conveys the conviction that man is more admirable than God. Now that is, of course, untrue. But we would miss the point if we said: "God hates lying and therefore God hates boasting in man because it conveys a lie." No. That’s not quite right. What God hates is the dishonoring of God. Lying happens to be one way that he is dishonored as the God of truth. So the real problem with man’s boasting in man is that it belittles God. Boasting in God, on the other hand, does the double opposite: it honors God and gives man the joy for which he was made: admiring the infinitely admirable. Mercifully, therefore, God has doubly excluded boasting by the way he saves sinners. First, boasting is excluded by faith. Romans 3:27, "Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith." Why does faith exclude boasting? The reason is not merely because faith is a gift of God, which it is. But so are all the fruits of the Spirit. Yet they do not all exclude boasting in the same way. Faith is unique among all the acts of the soul. It is the weakest and most helpless and most empty-handed act of the soul. It is all dependence on Another. In a sense, it is an acted non-act. Let me explain. I mean it is an inclination of the soul to seek help with no expectation that any inclination of the soul is good enough to obtain help, not even the inclination of faith. It is unique among all the acts of the soul. Since it is empty-handed, it is not like a virtue. It looks to the virtue of another. It looks to the strength of another. It looks to the wisdom of another. It is entirely other-directed and other-dependent. Therefore, it can’t boast in itself, for it can’t even look at itself. It is the kind of thing that in a sense has no "self." As soon as the unique act of the soul exists it is attached to another from whom it gets all its reality. Second, boasting is excluded by election. 1 Corinthians 1:27-29, "God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, so that no human being might boast in the presence of God." God’s election is designed to remove boasting. The point is that God does not choose people with a view to any feature in us that would allow us to boast. In fact, Romans 9:11 makes clear that God’s election is designed to make God’s saving purpose rest finally on God alone, not any act of the human soul. "Though [Jacob and Esau] were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad – in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because him who calls [God chose Jacob not Esau]". The contrast with works here is not faith, but "him who calls." The choice of God rests finally on God alone. He decides who will believe and undeservingly be saved. Therefore, let us look away from ourselves and all human help. Let all boasting in man and man’s accomplishments cease. And let us boast in the Lord. By John Piper. ©Desiring God Ministries. Website: www.desiringGOD.org. Email: mail@desiringGOD.org. Toll Free: 888-346-4700. |
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10 | OSAS? | Gal 5:4 | Joseph3 | 88380 | ||
Dear Biblekidd, Greetings and welcome! I just posted about this topic elsewhere in the Forum. If you look at the upper right corner of the Forum, you will see a Quick Search box. Enter ID#88279 to see my comments. I hope it sheds some light on your questions. I will pray God will lead you into all truth! In Christ, Joe Proverbs 3:5-6 |
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11 | THE CROSS | John 3:16 | Joseph3 | 88094 | ||
Greetings Tim! Long time since last week, I have been away from my computer for way to long! : -) Thank you for your response to my comments, I enjoy the interaction. I had drafted another response to your comments, but after reviewing the numerous posts and threads dealing directly with the topic at hand, namely the atonement of Christ, I think it would be prudent for me to not post another lengthy interaction. Rather, I’ll make a few short comments of my own, and take your comments and leave it at that. My point, regarding the now infamous ‘all’ discussion in the forum, is that when we read Holy text, we must read each passage in it’s historical and grammatical context, meaning we should not divorce a passage from the rest of the immediate context, the letter itself, and the rest of the New Testament and the OT. So, if context would suggest that the word ‘all’ could not mean all individuals, then we must conclude otherwise. In another case, if we read a passage of Scripture that does not make sense, we should look through the rest of Scripture to see if there are any other passages that shed light on the one we are having trouble with. Again, if the context warrants the term ‘all’ to mean all individuals, then that is what it means. There are verses, such as the ones we covered before, that simply do not make logical sense, in light of the rest of Scripture, regarding the word ‘all’. Other threads have covered this topic, no need to continue down that road. : -) Thanks for interacting with me on a civil and charitable level. Seems like humbleness and Christian charity are sorely lacking from many posts in this forum dealing with this topic. Even if you and I don’t agree on a particular area of Christian teaching (which we don’t in this respect : -)), that does not mean we cannot challenge each other in good hearty debate, always framed in brotherly love towards our fellow believers (Rom. 12; 2 Pet. 1:4-8). It saddens me to see such un-Christ like behavior exhibited in this forum at times, of which I am in no way immune, since my fallen nature is still with me daily (Rom. 7)… Thanks again Tim, I am sure we’ll run into each other again in the future! Hope all goes well with your move. In Christ, Joe |
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12 | THE CROSS | John 3:16 | Joseph3 | 87748 | ||
PART 2—Kind greetings, Tim: ”g) 1 Timothy 2:6 - "who gave himself as a ransom for all men? the testimony given in its proper time."” --Tim, I want to cover this verse along with 2(a) below since I believe a proper understanding of what is going on in this passage needs to be drawn from the larger context of the letter. Notice that this passage starts out with Paul speaking to believers about prayer and supplications, specifically for “for all people, 2for kings and all who are in high positions”. This is important because it sets up the topic that Paul is writing about. Next, he urges the believers to live godly, peaceful, quiet and dignified lives, obviously tying in a theme Paul wrote about in Romans 13:1-2. So, going forth, Paul writes that the preceding instructions about living are pleasing to the Lord, because He wants all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth. Now, is it so much of a stretch to think that Paul had all classes of men in mind here, and not necessarily every single individual person? The context of the verse is dealing with classes of men, men in positions of authority, i.e. kings and rulers. Continuing, Paul writes that “there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” So true, like I stated in 1(f) above, Christ is the only true Messiah, He is the only one than can save! Continuing on, Paul then writes: “6who gave himself as a ransom for all men--the testimony given in its proper time. 7And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.” Again, tying in with the theme of the passage, Paul is here speaking about all men, not just Jews, not just the poor, but everyone, including Kings, presidents, generals, tax collectors, all peoples! Notice as well that at the end of verse 7, Paul is finishing his statement that he is a teacher to the Gentiles, making a distinction between the Jews, of which he is one, and the rest of the known world, Gentiles. --So, in summary, I would argue that the “all men” statements in 1 Tim 2 are refering to all classes of men, as shown from the context of the passage itself. ”h) 1 John 2:2 - "He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."” --John is here writing to believers, encouraging them that their sins are atoned for and that Christ advocates for us to the Father. Again, same issue as with Nicodemus. The Jewish people knew salvation was for the Jews only, but now salvation and atonement has come to the rest of the world, to all peoples, not just the Jewish nation. ”2) Concerning the will of Christ to save all:” ”a) 1 Timothy 2:4 - "who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth."” --See above ”b) 2 Peter 3:9 - "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."” --What a wonderful passage of Scripture! The thing to notice here is that the context of this verse. Peter wrote this to believers(2 Pet. 3:1-3), warning them of the trials and tribulations to come. He gives a picture of judgment through the Flood and then also the judgment still to come. The point of all this is say that the Lord is not slow, as some count slowness, so this would be encouraging to the readers of the letter. Then, Peter admonishes them with the fact that God is patient with them, not wanting any to perish, but all to come to repentance. I think it is clear that Peter is here talking strictly to and about believers in the Lord. In addition, you will notice that Peter mentions a “promise”. Later in the same chapter, v. 13, Peter mentions a “promise” again, His promise to be exact. The promise has to do with the coming kingdom of God, which He has promised to us as believers in Christ. We look forward to the Kingdom of God, unrepentant sinners do not. Therefore, the promise in this verse is a promise made by God strictly to believers. ”c) Romans 11:32 - " For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all."” --I am not too sure how this verse speaks directly to the atonement of Christ. What this verse clearly teaches is that humanity is under a curse, under the judgment of God. With this fact in place, God’s wonderful mercy is all the more clear! In a sense, God has a non-salvific mercy on all people in that He blesses us with life, even though each one of us deserves death because of our disobedience in Adam. --Tim, I appreciate your courtesy and respect when you post answers in this forum. If I know anything, the fruits of the Spirit are apparent in your words. --In Christ, --Joe --PS- Tim, I too am a simple man myself. No formal Bible education, a 9-5 job, a godly wife and a nice local church. I guess you could say I’m just your average Joe… |
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13 | THE CROSS | John 3:16 | Joseph3 | 87747 | ||
PART 1--Kind greetings, Tim: --Please forgive me for jumping into this discussion at this time! Please see my comments in between the verses you provided. “1) Concerning the extent of the atonement:” ”a) 2 Cor. 5:19 - "that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men?s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. "” -- Tim, this verse is stating that God is reconciling the world to Himself, simply put. God is bringing reconciliation to the world and this verse is speaking to us as believers to go out and preach reconciliation. I guess I am not sure how this verse proves that Christ dies for every single individual person. If we take this verse to say He did die for each individual person, then God did not hold the sins of Stalin and Hitler against them, or any other human who dies denying God, so did they get off scot-free when they died? If God did hold their sins against them (which, unless they repented and believed Christ, He did), then we have a situation where God changed His mind, which flies in the face of Scripture passages that say otherwise(Mal. 3:6; Num. 23:19; Hos. 11:9). ”b) John 3:16-17 - "??For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him."” --Again, I would not try and argue anything other than what this verse means. God does love the world, the world of all people, not just the Jews. We have to remember who Jesus was talking to here, Nicodemus, a Pharisee. He was quizzing Jesus about His works and the Kingdom. In those days salvation was only for the Jews and no one else. Well, Jesus is blowing that box apart and telling Nicodemus that salvation has come to all the world, to all peoples! Praise God! ”c) John 12:32 - "But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself.?” --First off, if every single individual is drawn, then Christ must raise them on the last day, referring to salvation(John 6:44). We know this is not true because Christ teaches that there is a Hell in which unbelievers will spend eternity. Secondly, the term used “will” is very strong, meaning that when Christ says He “will” do something, it does happen, no questions asked, He is God after all! So, in light of this, to say that Christ does draw every single individual person, that presents problems. Thirdly, we know that daily there are individuals who die in their sins never hearing the Gospel of Christ. Does Christ draw those individual people? ”d) John 6:33 and 51 - "For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world .? ..."I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.?” --God does give life, in a broad sense to the world, I would not argue with that. But, even in this verse it says that one must eat of the Bread, His flesh, in order to have the life, and obviously not every single individual person has partaken of the flesh of Christ, right? Plus, this verse says that if you eat of His flesh, you have eternal life right now! ”e) Titus 2:11 - "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men."” --Again, God is showing grace to man through His grace in the Gospel of Christ. In a sense, it has appeared to all men through the preaching of the Word to all tribes, tongues and nations. This is the Great Commission! ”f) 1 John 4:14 - "And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world."” --Agreed, Christ is the Savior of the world, no argument here! Whether people like it or not, Christ is the only true Messiah in this fallen world, the only One than can and will save His people from their sins and the wrath to come(1 Thess. 1:10; Rom. 2:5). Continued in next post… |
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14 | Heb. 7:25, A great comfort | Heb 7:25 | Joseph3 | 87515 | ||
Dear mommapbs: Thank you for sharing your story, what an encouragement! Reminds me to share with you this great passage from Philippians 4:4-7: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, rejoice! 5 Let your gentle spirit be known to all men. The Lord is near. 6 Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. 7 And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. The key is, “in Christ Jesus”. We can do nothing outside our Lord Jesus Christ. And know this, the prayers of a righteous man avail much (James 5:16), and because our righteousness comes from the ultimate source of righteousness, Christ Himself, just think of how powerful the prayers and supplications of Christ are on our behalf in the throne room of the Father (Heb. 7:25)! What a grand reality!! May the Lord guide you and keep you, In Christ, Joe Soli Deo Gloria!! |
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15 | Heb. 7:25, A great comfort | Heb 7:25 | Joseph3 | 87456 | ||
Greetings! I want to leave a comment regarding this wonderful portion of Scripture because it is a great comfort and encouragement to me as a follower of Christ. Hebrews 7:25: “Consequently, He is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.” What is so wonderful about not only this verse, but the context as well, is the stress on the supremacy of Christ as our (believers) High Priest in heaven. As Easton’s Bible Dictionary defines Christ’s intercession: Intercession of Christ Christ's priestly office consists of these two parts, (1.) the offering up of himself as a sacrifice, and (2.) making continual intercession for us. When on earth he made intercession for his people (Luk_23:34; Joh_17:20; Heb_5:7); but now he exercises this function of his priesthood in heaven, where he is said to appear in the presence of God for us (Heb_9:12, Heb_9:24). His advocacy with the Father for his people rests on the basis of his own all-perfect sacrifice. Thus he pleads for and obtains the fulfillment of all the promises of the everlasting covenant (1Jo_2:1; Joh_17:24; Heb_7:25). He can be “touched with the feeling of our infirmities,” and is both a merciful and a faithful high priest (Heb_2:17, Heb_2:18; Heb_4:15, Heb_4:16). This intercession is an essential part of his mediatorial work. Through him we have “access” to the Father (Joh_14:6; Eph_2:18; Eph_3:12). “The communion of his people with the Father will ever be sustained through him as mediatorial Priest” (Psa_110:4; Rev_7:17). One important point: the basis for all that Christ does as the risen Savior is based solely on His own all-perfect and all-powerful sacrifice. Because His intercession is based on His perfect work at the cross, His intercession is perfect, meeting all of our needs as we struggle through our Christian lives on this side of glory. I am eternally thankful that my Savior saves completely and powerfully (Phil. 1:6; Rom. 8:32), and that I can rest in the fact that He lives to intercede for me before the throne of the Holy Father. I just get chills thinking about it!!! Take heart if you are reading this and are struggling in your pilgrimage with Christ. Take comfort in knowing the Savior, your Savior, is interceding for you at this very moment, advocating for you in the throne room of the Father, against the wiles of Satan and his minions. His work is perfect, able to save to the uttermost, completely, perfectly. Trust Christ and His righteousness, not your own!! Comments!? In Christ, Joe |
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16 | Our name erased or added to Book of Life | Rev 13:8 | Joseph3 | 87310 | ||
Dear John Reformed: Amen! God is powerful, He can and will save to the “uttermost” (Hebrews 7:25). I could not agree more! As well, if Christ makes intercession for believers as 7:25 says, Jesus “lives to make intercession for them”, then how could a believer be lost? I hope no one would say that the prayers of the risen Lord are futile prayers, prayers that have no power over a mere creature!! In Christ, Joe |
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17 | Heaven or Hell? | John 3:16 | Joseph3 | 87127 | ||
Dear John Reformed: Thank you for the kind greeting, I am thankful to be involved in this forum. My prayer is that God is glorified in my posts. I want to glorify Him because of His faithfulness to me (1 John 1:9), of which I am eternally thankful, because I know I am a sinner who does not deserve such kindness from the one, true and holy God of the Bible. I can only use the Scriptures to present truth, as my mind is not being conformed to the ways of the world, but is being renewed, so that I may discern the will of God, what is good, acceptable and perfect (Rom. 12:2). As Hebrews 4:12-13 says: “For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.” And further, 2 Timothy 3:16-17: “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.” Thanks again for the kind welcome. In Christ, Joe |
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