Results 1 - 20 of 22
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Results from: Notes Author: Eagle One Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Shamayim - why heavens, not two heavens | Gen 1:1 | Eagle One | 29255 | ||
Dear Short, Regarding Paul's being caught up to the third heaven. It has always been my understanding that there is 3 heavens: (1) The clouds or atmospheric heavens [Gen. 1:8; Ps 77:17-18] (2) The starry space [Gen. 15:5; 22:17; 26:4; Dt 1:10; Is. 13:10] (3) God's dwelling place. [Gen. 1:1; Is. 14:12-14; Is. 66:1; Rev. 21:2, 10] I found these scripture references in an old Dake's reference bible. It seems like a very simple explanation, but it also seems logical. Satan was thrown out of the third heaven and we know that he and his minions now dwell in the area immediately above the earth. We read in Daniel 10:13 "But the prince of the kingdom Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia." This scripture refers to the principalities in which the demonic forces are organized, and infers that they are organized geographically in specific areas above the earth. My impression has always been that this is the first heaven. (Our own atmosphere) And in a manner of speaking the second heaven is the outer atmosphere. Finally and supremely above all is the third heaven. God's dwelling place that Satan so coveted. I welcome any other comments and scriptural references. Thanks. Eagle One |
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2 | God's Forgiveness of Sin | Mic 7:19 | Eagle One | 29775 | ||
Greetings Nolan, I'd like to comment on the scriptures you've listed relative to negative judgement and the believer. Please give me your views in return. I understand these scriptures to say that God forgives all of our sins past, present, and future. To me, the bible makes it clear that God has judicially removed sin from the believer and has done it completely. "For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more" (Heb. 8:12) With regard to sin, scripture affirms that the child of God under grace shall not come under judgment (Jn 3:18; 5:24). Our sin, past, present, and future, has been born by a perfect Substitute, and we are therefore forever placed beyond condemnation (Col. 2:10), accepted as perfect in Christ (I Cor. 1:30; Eph. 1:6; Col. 2:10; Heb. 10:14), and loved as Christ is loved (Jn. 17:23). However, we see in many other passages that God does judge us when we become carnal and does remember our sin. "Unless I wash you, you have no part with me (Jn. 13:8). So, if the Christian does not confess, he is not forgiven. This sounds like a penalty for willful sin. This is true even though Paul has declared elsewhere that "nothing shall be able to separate us from the love of God" (Rom. 8:39). "And behold I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to everyone according to his work" (Rev. 22:12). This passage seems to assert that every man, Christian and nonchristian, will be judged according to his work. We are also told that we will reap what we sow. We have been warned that there is no sacrificial protection from judgement in time (Heb. 10:26)for willful sin. Paul tells us that at the judgment seat of Christ we will be rewarded for both the good and bad things we have done. For the persistently carnal Christian a dreadful experience awaits him at the last day. He will suffer the loss of everything but will be saved as through fire (ICor. 3:15). We have Christ's warning to the wicked servant (Would He call an unsaved man a servant?), that he would be cast into the place of weeping and gnashing of teeth. The foolish virgins are excluded from the wedding banquet, and the man without the proper attire for the banquet was cast into the darkness outside. These all sound like punishments. We cannot say that they are all unregenerate just because our theological system teaches that these punishments could not come upon the regenerate (born again). As I mentioned in an earlier note, it seems as though there are three negative consequences for the consistently carnal Christian at the judgement seat of Christ. First, for some there will be a stinging rebuke. Could this be the meaning of the Lord's warning that some will be "cut in pieces"? (Mt. 24:51) And of his stern denunciation, "You wicked, lazy, servant" (Mt. 25:26) Second, such unfaithful Christians face millennial disinheritance. A father may disinherit his son, but the son is still his son. Isn't this disinheritance a forfeiture of one's share in the millennial reign. And finally, the carnal Christian faces exclusion from the joy of the wedding banquet, "Friend, how did you get in here without wedding clothes?" (Mt. 22:12) It has been suggested that this line of thought approaches catholocism's "purgatory". From "Dabney" pp. 538-545. "Purgatory must be rejected. The Scriptures teach that the saint is made perfect at death and there is therfore no room for a purgatorical cleansing. Satisfaction of Christ is complete in regard to providing eternal unconditional acceptance and immediate entrance to heaven at death. Therefore, what ever befalls the glorified saint at the judgment seat cannot exclude him from immediate entrance into heaven." From R. T. Kendall, Once Saved Always Saved (London: Hodder and Stoughton, 1984), p. 123 "We must deduce from this that there is no contradiction between Paul's doctrine of justification and his conception of the judgment of God; and that being declared righteous so as to escape the wrath of God (Rom. 5:9; I Thess. 1:10) does not exempt us from rewards or punishment in the Last Day." I've written all of the above to express my conviction that the scriptures you listed are absolutely literal regarding final justification. I believe that carnal Christians who die without "Making a Comeback", will make it to heaven. I don't believe hell is a consideration for these Christians. They along with Christians that have disciplined themselves to walk with Christ to the best of their abilities, will be judged according to their works, whether good or bad. Please excuse the length of my note. I look forward to hearing from you. Eagle One |
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3 | God's Forgiveness of Sin | Mic 7:19 | Eagle One | 29777 | ||
Dear Robert, I appreciate your reminder of Col 1:14. And I am touched by what you said. "Is it not amazing that in Christ we are abundantly pardoned and clothed in his righteousness forever. "Forgiven" not in part, but the whole. I've asked Brother Nolan to comment on my rather lengthy note to him. I would ask for your comments also. I look forward to hearing from you. In Him, Eagle One |
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4 | God's Forgiveness of Sin | Mic 7:19 | Eagle One | 29927 | ||
Hello Robert, Greetings to you in His precious name. Your remarks and scriptual discussion was a blessing for me and for others that will read it. Your comments were accurate and appropriate. In addition they conveyed your love for the Savior and His precious scripture. Please share additional thoughts and insight with me soon. I will look forward to that. In Him, Eagle One |
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5 | God's Forgiveness of Sin | Mic 7:19 | Eagle One | 29929 | ||
Greetings to you Nolan, I want to thank you for your response. Your description of God's grace in giving us positional justification was not only accurate but solid. In addition I appreciated your discussion of the risk of continuing in sin and the imminence of the consequences. I am in agreement with all of your points and I ask you to share your thoughts and insight in other areas of His Word as well. Thanks again. In Him, Eagle One |
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6 | God's Forgiveness of Sin | Mic 7:19 | Eagle One | 30096 | ||
Greetings to you HeistheOne, Thank you for your post. It's uplifting to hear from a Christian brother that has had similar experiences, and I'm happy for you. It's difficult to discuss a backslidden condition. When you're in the middle of it, you can't even remember the wonders of walking in His presence. During the time, I could remember that I had countless wonderous times with Him, but I just couldn't remember the depth and beauty of closeness to Him. When I think about His faithfulness to me while I was being unfaithful to Him I experience a mixture of joy and regret. I'm reminded of the scripture, "Psalm 30:5 For His anger is but for a moment, His favor is for life; Weeping may endure for a night, But joy comes in the morning. Thanks again for communicating with me. I'd like to hear from you again. I try to hit the computer as soon as I can at the end of the work day. I'll look forward to hearing from you. In Him, Eagle One |
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7 | God's Forgiveness of Sin | Mic 7:19 | Eagle One | 30323 | ||
Hello Robert. Greetings in His precious name, I’ve been reviewing your post addressed to me dated 1/10/02 and there are several points made that I do agree with and I’d like to comment further on them. Your comments are in quotes, (As if you couldn't recognize your own comments) Please tolerate my tendancy to over detail at times. "Brother, our sins and the punishment for our sins were laid on Christ. Thus, I have difficulty seeing punishment at the judgement seat of Christ. However, we will suffer loss if we fail to commit ourselves to Christ in our lives and allow him to work through us. The awards of that day will be laid at his feet and to his glory forever." I can see that I didn't express myself very well and the Judgement Seat of Christ is not a time of punishment. What I should have said is that the loss of reward owing to a spiritual history of self serving works and few unselfish, love motivated works. (1 Corinthians 3:12-15 12Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. 14If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.), will cause carnal Christians to suffer a terrible sense of loss. R.T. Kendall used the phrase "rewards or punishment in the Last Day". Once again I agree with you. the phrase should read, "rewards or lack of". And from a personal feeling standpoint, I feel that "none to few rewards" from Him is punishment. This is part one. Part two will follow later today. In Him, Eagle One |
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8 | God's Forgiveness of Sin | Mic 7:19 | Eagle One | 30456 | ||
Greetings to you Robert, To continue our examination of Christian status at the Judgement Seat of Christ, I'd like to focus on usage of the word overcomer. What follows will be very lengthy and will probably have to consist of at least three installments. Ref. at the end of the post. We've discussed the position that there is an overcomer discussed in I John 5. So the question is: Does overcomer in I John 5 mean the same as the overcomer discussed in the book The Revelation. Who are the Overcomers? Daniel B. Wallace Senior New Testament Editor, the NET Bible Bob Wilkin writes The Bible does not promise that all true believers will live victorious, holy lives. Believers may have more than temporary setbacks and bouts with sin. It is sadly possible for believers to backslide terribly and to remain in that backslidden state until death. Certainly the church at Corinth was hardly a picture of believers experiencing ultimate victory over sin in their lives (cf. 1 Cor 3:1-3; 11:30; see also Gal 6:1-5; Jas 5:19-20; and 1 John 5:16)! It should be noted that some of the Christians at Corinth had died in a state of carnality as a direct result of God’s judgment which Paul carefully defined as God’s disciplinary action. This shows God was dealing with them as His children (cf. 1 Cor. 11:29-32 with Heb. 13:5-11). I’m not saying that eternal security is not true… What I am saying is that there is no guarantee in Scripture that eternally secure people will live overcoming, victorious lives here and now. Believers can fail.9 Does John’s use of the overcomer expression in 1 John 5:4-5 dictate its meaning in Revelation 2 and 3? It is true that 1 John 5:5 teaches that our faith overcomes the world. It is a mistake, however, to conclude that because John so used that expression in one place, he must have used it the same way in all other places. The contexts in which the expression is found in Revelation 2-3 are greatly different than the context of 1 John 5:5.13 The messages to the seven churches in Revelation 2 and 3 present very different contexts than that of 1 John 5. 1 John 5:4 teaches us that the means of victory over the world is “our faith.” Then verse 5 declares that the only ones who can overcome the world by faith are those who believe that Jesus is the Son of God. Why? Because only these have experienced the new birth of God in spiritual regeneration and it is that regeneration that gives the power for victory (vs. 4a). But the context of the seven letters suggests that John is there admonishing believers to overcome specific trials and temptations by faithful obedience through faith in their new life in Christ. Consider the following examples from each of these messages: Revelation 2:7b reads, “To him who overcomes I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the Paradise of God.” But the context for this is the admonition in 2:5 which reads, “Therefore remember from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first” The admonitions “Do not fear” and “Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life” (2:10) form the immediate context for the promise, “He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death” (2:11). The call to repent in 2:16 precedes the promise to the overcomer in 2:17. “Nevertheless what you have, hold fast until I come. And he who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations” (2:25-26). Again, the promise is in a context of two admonitions for faithfulness. While some versions leave out the “and” that begins verse 26, the Greek text contains this connecting particle and shows a relationship exists between the promise and the admonition. The promise of 3:5 is directly connected to the concept of faithfulness described in 3:4. “But you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments; and they will walk with Me in white; for they are worthy. He who overcomes shall thus be clothed in white garments;” Again, an admonition, “Hold fast what you have, so that no one will take your crown” (3:11) forms the context for the promise of 3:12, “He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God,” Finally, the last promise to the one who overcomes (3:21) is set against the context of the Savior’s invitation for fellowship (3:20). Believers cannot overcome without dining intimately with the Savior in daily fellowship. According to this view, the overcomer passages are promises of rewards given to believers to encourage them to overcome the trials of life through faithfulness. End of installment one. |
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9 | God's Forgiveness of Sin | Mic 7:19 | Eagle One | 30457 | ||
Beginning of installment two: This view is held by some very outstanding expositors of the Word. For instance, J. Sidlow Baxter writes: But the promise is to “the overcomer.” Are all believers “overcomers”? Let him think twice who would answer a dogmatic “Yes” to this question. The letters to the seven churches, at least, suggested otherwise to an unprejudiced reader. Our standing in Christ is no artificial position of immunity. As there are degrees of punishment in hell so there are degrees of reward in heaven. One is made ruler over ten cities, another over five. “One star differeth from another star in glory.”14 Barnhouse has a similar view which sees the promises to the overcomer as promises of rewards for faithfulness and writes: Some have said that eating from the tree of life was the equivalent of receiving eternal life, but this is most evidently a false interpretation. Eternal life is the prerequisite for membership in the true Church. Eating of the tree of life is a reward that shall be given to the overcomer in addition to his salvation. His work, built upon the foundation that is Christ Jesus, abides the test of the Lord’s appearing, and he receives over and above his entrance into eternal life, a place in the Heavens in the midst of the paradise of God.15 These men, along with others, would heartily agree that all believers are overcomers in one sense, in the sense they have become children of God, have been translated out of darkness into the glorious light of Christ, have been taken out of Adam and placed into Christ. In this glorious position, they have become identified with Him as to His person and work, etc., and enjoy many other marvelous blessings in Christ (Eph. 1:3; Col. 2:10). Every believer is an overcomer in that sense (1 John 5:4-5). But these expositors would also insist that all believers do not overcome absolutely. Christians can fail to live for the Lord and overcome the desires of the flesh (1 Cor. 11:28f; 1 John 5:16-17). Furthermore, while the failure to overcome may be an indication of false profession, the fact a believer does not overcome the struggles of life, does not automatically prove they are not true Christians. If they have truly believed in Christ, they cannot lose their salvation, but they will lose rewards as the Lord warns in Revelation 3:11 and the Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 3:12-15. Those holding to the rewards view would say the overcomer passages are promises given to believers to encourage and kindle love and obedience in view of who they are in Christ and what they posses in Him. These are not warnings against the loss of salvation, nor necessarily warnings against false profession, though that could be one application of these promises. Furthermore, they are not statements affirming the preservation of the saints. Instead, they are guarantees of special blessings or rewards for faithful service and lives of faith. End of installment two. |
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10 | God's Forgiveness of Sin | Mic 7:19 | Eagle One | 30460 | ||
Installment three: The Problem Discussed Does 1 John 5:4-5 define who the overcomers are in Revelation 2 and 3? In other words, do the overcomer promises apply to all believers regardless of the kind of lives they live? I have become convinced that 1 John 5:4-5 is not synonymous with the statements of Revelation 2 and 3. They occur in different books, with different contexts that contain a number of differences and the differences are such that they suggest that the references to overcoming in Revelation 2 and 3 are not defined by 1 John 5. In 1 John the apostle affirms that through believing in Jesus Christ there is a permanent victory over the world in one sense. When a believer exercises faith in Christ, he does overcome the world in the sense that the world system is intrinsically hostile to God’s commands, to faith in Christ, and is satanically blinded to the truth and under his dominion of control and death (2 Cor. 4:3, 4; Eph. 2:1-3; Heb. 2:14), but through faith in Christ, the believer has overcome that condition in that he is made a child of God, has been rescued from the domain of darkness and translated into the kingdom of God’s beloved Son (Col. 1:12-13). In Revelation, however, the overcomer concept is restrictive within the realm of the daily conflicts and battles of the Christian life according to the context of each of the seven letters. Here are illustrations of the battles that believers must overcome and for which rewards are promised for overcoming. “But this is a long way from saying that all Christians live ultimately victorious lives. In fact, that is something the New Testament does NOT say.”16 Regardless, as demonstrated above, many use 1 John 5:4-5 to interpret the overcomer promises of Revelation 2 and 3 because of the similarity of terms. Overcoming and the promises of these passages find their root in the Lord’s statement in John 16:33, “These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world.” The Christian life is full of conflict, tribulation, but victory awaits all believers through the victory accomplished by the Savior, but it is a victory that must be appropriated by an active faith that is fed though fellowship with the Lord. While all believers have overcome the world in the sense of 1 John 5, conflicts and trials come to the believer in a variety of different shapes and degrees. When we turn to Revelation 2 and 3, we find each church with its own particular conflict and problems with specific rewards that are in keeping with or somehow related to the problem faced. No two Christian’s lives are the same in terms of their struggles and triumphs. The basis of victory is the same, faith in the person and work of Christ and our blessings in Him, but the struggles are different and it seems that God tailors the rewards accordingly. These letters do not present victory as a certainty, but rather as an aspiration which each individual should pursue. The Savior’s words are never to them who overcome, but to him who overcomes. Victory is not a collective right, but an individual attainment. Clearly, the promises to the overcomers are rewards for obedience to the commands of the Lord of the Church.17 The problems that most have with this view come in the nature of the rewards mentioned in these promises and admittedly, these are difficult. The rewards in Revelation 2 and 3 are usually viewed as blessings all believers will automatically receive as, for instance, the right to the tree of life. This is associated with possessing eternal life, but as we will see, this is probably not the case. An investigation of the promises in Revelation 2 and 3 will seek to show that these are not promises all believers experience because every believer is an overcomer, but that these promises are special rewards to believers who overcome specific conflicts in the Christian life through faith and obedience in their daily walk. End of installment three: |
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11 | God's Forgiveness of Sin | Mic 7:19 | Eagle One | 30461 | ||
Installment four: The Analogical Evidence Evidence from the analogy of Scripture is consistent with the teaching of the New Testament in other places; a Christian may lose or gain rewards according to what he does with the stewardship God has given him (1 Cor. 3:11f; 9:27; 2 Cor. 5:10; Luke 19:11-26). In fact, if the promises of Revelation 2 and 3 are not restrictive, then we have what appears to be a contradiction between Luke 19:11f and Revelation 2:26 and 3:21. Many believe there is a difference in the New Testament between entrance into heaven and being an heir of the kingdom (cf. Rom. 8:16-17). True, some of the promises are hard to explain and understand as rewards and not as general gifts that go with eternal life, but because of the above evidence we should give strong consideration to the view that these are promises that pertain to rewards. 8 John F. MacArthur, The Gospel According to Jesus, Revised and Expanded Edition, Zondervan Publishing House, 1988, p. 253. 9 Bob Wilkin, “Grace Evangelical Newsletter,” March 1995. 10 Charles C. Ryrie, Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1968, pp. 22-23. 11 John F. Walvoord and Roy B. Zuck, The Bible Knowledge Commentary, “Revelation,” Scripture Press, Wheaton, IL, 1983, 1985, electronic media. 12 Warren W. Wiersbe, Wiersbe’s Expository Outlines On the New Testament, electronic media. 13 Bob Wilkin, Grace Evangelical Society Newsletter, March 1995. 14 J. Sidlow Baxter, Awake My Heart, Zondervan, p. 323. 15 Donald Grey Barnhouse, Revelation, An Expository Commentary, “God’s Last Word,” Zondervan, Grand Rapids, 1971, pp. 43-44. 16 Zane C. Hodges, The Gospel Under Siege, Redencion Viva, Dallas, TX, 1982, pp. 118-119. 17 Zane C. Hodges, Grace in Eclipse, Redencion Viva, Dallas, TX, 1987, p. 108-109. 18 The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, V, James Orr Reeve, general editor, 3010. 19 Hodges, Grace in Eclipse, p. 109. Please forgive the length of this posting. In Him, Eagle One |
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12 | God's Forgiveness of Sin | Mic 7:19 | Eagle One | 30537 | ||
Greetings to you Reformer Joe, If I’m understanding you correctly, your stance agrees with the “perseverance or ultimate triumph of the saints view”. Once again, if I understand it correctly, according to this view all genuine believers persevere and overcome the world by living godly and obedient lives. Overcoming is equivalent to faithfulness or obedience, which proves the genuineness of salvation. Is it true that MacArthur’s interpretation adheres to what has come to be called the “Reformed Doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints”, Which states that all true believers will persevere in a life of godly obedience. They admit that there may be temporary setbacks and bouts with sin, but that ultimately, true believers live victorious, holy lives to the end. Or do you hold to the Loss of salvation view? According to this interpretation, the promises are predicated on overcoming. To fail to overcome is to lose salvation. Do you disagree that the loss of salvation view contradicts the belief that believers are kept secure by the finished work of Christ? Jesus said, “and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand” (John 10:28-29), they “shall not come into judgment” (John 5:24), and “have already passed from death into life” (John 5:24). “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast” (Ephesians 2:8-9). I agree that there are people who say they are believers but they have never truly given their hearts to the Lord. This person might believe that Jesus is savior but never has and never will want Jesus to be his Lord. Obviously, these phonies fill the pews of mainline churches all over the world. They are the people you have in view when you say, "divorcing the earthly, progressive sanctification of the believer from his true justification". I understood this forum to be an exchange of views and insight based on personal study of the scripture and the information obtained from respected scholarship, rather than an opportunity to unjustly criticize a brother in the Lord. In Him, Eagle One |
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13 | God's Forgiveness of Sin | Mic 7:19 | Eagle One | 30549 | ||
Greetings to you Kalos, The web page is www.bible.org/index.htm Under the heading, "Bible Studies Area" click on "Search Studies Area". In the search studies area, insert the word overcomers. That will take you to a series of studies on Revelation. I found the information I needed in Number (1) I shortened it considerably but I still needed to break it up into four installments, as you noticed. I would welcome your views about this study. I appreciated the tone of your post. I would like to make a clarifying comment re. the closing sentance in my post. I've never been guilty of having a thin skin when it comes to dealing with people in the world. But when a brother forces me to absorb harshness, I get a little disappointed. When I decided to share this article I did so knowing that not all readers would agree. However, I believe that Christian brothers should strive to treat each other with civility. I submit that there are limitless degrees of biblical understanding and experience among us. Some of the posts I've read reflect strong scholarship. However, not all of us have a strong working knowledge of Greek and Hebrew. I certainly don't. I rely on the scholarship of others while primarily depending on the Holy Spirit to keep me alert regarding truth. Reading the scriptures and depending on the Lord to give me right understanding is a joy for me. I write all of the above in an effort to make myself transparent to the members of this fellowship. I look forward to hearing from you Brother Kalos. In Him, Eagle One |
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14 | God's Forgiveness of Sin | Mic 7:19 | Eagle One | 30706 | ||
Greetings Joe, Thank you for clarifying your views for me. Your post was well written and it makes sense. In Him, Eagle One |
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15 | The excluded man at the feast was saved | Matt 22:11 | Eagle One | 29573 | ||
Greetings to RTB56 and the Christian brothers that have submitted their spiritual insight, I believe the following about the man that the Lord rebuked. (1) He was a saved man. A born again christian. (2) He was a totally carnal christian. The total number of unselfish good works that he ever did in his entire christian life was probably "very few" to "none". (3) He probably died without repenting of his sins. Please allow me to express my conviction in my own words, after which I will list some solid references. (a) I believe the wedding feast in this scripture represents the "Marriage Supper of the Lamb" rather than the "Kingdom of God". This is a parable and in Mt. 22:8 the Lord said, "My wedding reception is ready, but those invited have proved unworthy. (The nation of Israel) Verses 9-10 describe the invitation going out to the gentiles. We can assume that many refused the invitation but many responded to it. (Many refused the invitation of salvation and many accepted it.) Only those who accepted the invitation were there. (b) The man had no wedding garment because the garment represents the total unselfish good works done during his life on earth. [1 Corinthians 3 15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.] This man is described in this scripture. "he himself will be saved". (c) Vs. 12 tells us that the Lord called him "Friend". The Lord does not call the unsaved, "Friend". (d) Regarding vs. 13. "Binding hand and foot" and "weeping and gnashing of teeth", please allow me to repeat the words of Joseph Dillow, author of the book, THE REIGN OF THE SERVANT KINGS, Schoettle Publishing Co. Pages 350-352. "Matthew leads us to imagine a great feast of rejoicing. This joyful banquet is portrayed as occurring in the evening in a brightly lit banquet hall. Outside the banquet a relative physical darkness prevails. This darkness is not literal, but is a metaphor for the exclusion of the carnal Christian. It is not the darkness of hell. What is the meaning of "wailing and gnashing of teeth"? Those Christians who are not "sons indeed," who lack wedding garments at the wedding banquet, will not only be excluded from the joy of the banquet but will also experience profound regret, "wailing and gnashing of teeth". This phrase does not refer to the experience of the unsaved in hell in this passage. The phrase "wailing and gnashing of teeth" is found seven times in the New Testament. Even though it is used on three occasions of the experience of the unregenerate in hell, [Mt. 13:42, 50; Lk 13:28], it is also used on four occasions of the regenerate in the kingdom. [Mt. 8:12; 22:13; 24:51; 25:30. The notions of heaven or hell are simply not part of the semantic value of the words. The fact that the non believer can experience profound regret in hell in no way implies that the true Christian cannot experience profound regret in the kingdom. We are repeatedly told that, when the Lord comes, He will reward us "good and bad" [II Cor. 5:10] and that some may draw back in shame at His coming [I John 2:28]. Some Christians are going to be saved "but only as one escaping through the flames" [I Cor. 3:15] It seems that these verses adequately explain the experience of profound regret for the unfaithful Christian which Matthew calls "wailing and gnashing of teeth." Thank you. I will appreciate your responses. In Him, Eagle One |
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16 | Why was the man speechless? | Matt 22:11 | Eagle One | 29581 | ||
Hi Joe and greetings in His name, In your response to rbt56, you mentioned the parable of the wheat and the tares. The tares were the sons of the evil one, Mt. 13:38, being cast into the furnace of fire, or hell, where there will also be wailing and gnashing of teeth, Mt. 13:42. There is no furnace of fire here. It is not to the unregenerate that this fate occurs but to "sons of the kingdom (Mt. 8:12), who are the "wheat" (Mt. 13:38), to whom the calling naturally belongs. This man is a "friend" who had accepted the invitation and had taken his place. According to the Lord, all Christians are called to participate in the wedding, but only some will enjoy it, i.e., be there. This is apparently the meaning of the proverb "Many are called but few are chosen." This ancient proverb, used three times in the aprocryphal 4 Ezra, simply means that, while all Christians are invited to the banquet, only those wearing the wedding garment are chosen to participate in it. Those Christians who fail to persevere to the end, who are carnal, will experience three negatives at the future judgement: (1) A stinging rebuke, Mt. 24:45-51. (2) Exclusion from the wedding banquet, Mt. 22:1-14; Mt. 25:1-13, and (3) Millennial disinheritance (Mt. 25:14-30). [The information in the last two paragraphs comes from THE REIGN OF THE SERVANT KINGS by Dr. Joseph T. Dillow, Th.d pages 352-353). Thank you and please share more of your thoughts with me. In Him, Eagle One |
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17 | The excluded man at the feast was saved | Matt 22:11 | Eagle One | 29586 | ||
Greetings Joe, I agree with you that not everything in a parable does not represent something else. And particularly in this parable, the Lord addressed the man as "Friend". The word is hetairos, or clansman, comrade, fellow, friend. Regarding my statement about the man's lack of unselfish good works, we know there are many carnal Christians and I know of no scripture that tells us that all carnal Christians will go to hell. In addition there are many Christians that "walked the walk" for a period of time followed by a "back slidden" period of time. I've known people with this experience and I've been through it myself. I also believe that there are people who love the Lord but live undisciplined lives. Some of them die before they return to a life of walking with the Lord. I was horribly back slidden for many years. By His grace I am once again walking with Him. In any case I appreciate your thoughts. In Him, Eagle One |
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18 | What is "persevering to the end?" | Matt 22:37 | Eagle One | 30198 | ||
Greetings Emmaus, In your post you ask, "what does it mean to persevere to the end?" If you refer to Rev. 3:10, please consider the following: James E. Rosscup in "The Overcomers of the Apocalypse," GTJ 3 (Fall 1982): 261-86, commits the error of the illegitimate identitiy transfer, ie. the practice of noting usage in various contexts, adding all the usages up, reading them into the semantic value of the word and carrying that freighted new meaning into other contexts." Barr, pp 206-62. His attempt to define the meaning of "overcomer", in Rev. 2-3 is a prime example. In I Jn 5:4 it seems clear that the overcomer is a Christian and that all who are Christians are, in a particular sense, overcomers. Those who know the Lord have, according to John, overcome by virtue of the fact that they have believed and for no other reason." In Revelation, however, the overcomer is one who has "kept the word of My perseverance" (Rev. 3:10) and who "keeps My deeds until the end" (Rev. 2:26) As a result of this faithful behavior, the overcomer receives various rewards. Rosscup, in the interests of the Reformed doctrine of perseverance, wants the overcomer in I John (all Christians) to mean the same thing as the overcomer in Revelation. He seems to misunderstand the context of I John and feels it refers to tests of whether or not one is a Christian, when in fact it refers to tests of our walk and fellowship with God. This can be twisted, but the natural sense is to be found in the purpose statements in the opening verses. All who are overcomers in I John, therefore, may or may not be walking in fellowship; all who are overcomers in Revelation are. An overcomer in I John is simply a Christian; an overcomer in Revelation is a persevering Christian. Dillow, "The Reign of the Servant Kings" pp 36-37. All of the above gives me reason to believe that one doesn't lose his salvation because he isn't the Christian who perseveres to the end in walking closely with our Lord, staying in constant fellowship, faithfully resisting temptation, and being abundant in good works "to the end." Thanks for reading my post. In Him, Eagle One |
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19 | What is "persevering to the end?" | Matt 22:37 | Eagle One | 30243 | ||
Joe, I'm a little confused. I'm inserting a copy of your post below. You seem to be refuting yourself. Can you lose your salvation? Note Bible general Reformer Joe Fri 01/11/02, 4:17pm Mike: Thanks for your response again. You mentioned in your daily prayer that you confess all sins known and unknown. That is not too different from what I do. However, you said it is a daily prayer. What if you were to commit an unknown sin 10 minutes later and then died before reaching the next prayer time? Thsi may seem to be belaboring the point, but I am quite confident that such a scenario occurs all the time in our lives. In other words, our mouths simply cannot keep up with our sins. Also, I hope you have not come to the conclusion that I think that works are not a part of the Christian life. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Good (i.e. God-honoring) works are the evidence of God at work in us, making clear to us and others our justification. However, our justification was accomplished by Christ on the Cross 2000 years ago, not by us today (Romans 8:33). I also find it interesting that you differentiate the works of the believer from the works mentioned in the Old Testament. How are the Ten Commandments the "old law"? Is there no longer a prohibition against idolatry and murder and adultery and lying and stealing and coveting and disobedience to parents? Are we not to love God with all our heart, mind, and strength and love our neighbors as ourselves anymore? There is no question that we do not keep these completely, because we still sin. However, all of the New Testament works/commands are in keeping with the moral law of God which runs throughout all of Scripture. And the thing is that we STILL don't completely and unwaveringly keep those NT commandments that you mentioned. That is the thing about grace. If we look at the Ephesians 2 passage, we see God's grace applied to us through faith (all of this being the gift of God) apart from works (what is your basis for saying that the works are limited to the specifics of God's covenant with the nation of Israel, since Paul was writing to Gentiles who never were part of that covenant?). However, true saving faith results in works, as Ephesians 2:10. Note, however, that the works, like the grace and faith, are of God, prepared beforehand for us to walk in them. Grace leads to faith (which includes repentance), resulting in God-honoring works as the Holy Spirit empowers us to will and to work for His good pleasure (Philippians 2:13). However, it is God's grace that is the BASIS of our justification, faith being the MEANS, and works being the RESULT. All three are a part of the equation, but we must never get them out of order. --Joe! When I read the post above I thought I understood your scriptual stance. Your recent post to me seemed a bit aggressively slanted in the other direction. Eagle One |
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20 | What is "persevering to the end?" | Matt 22:37 | Eagle One | 30245 | ||
Greetings Brother Robert, As always, your scripture references and your comments are uplifting. I always look forward to your posts. You are a blessing to this forum. So many times in my Christian life I have felt completely unable to be an overcomer. But even during the darkest times I would cling to scriptures like Romans 8:37-39. During those periods of time when I felt at my absolute worst I was able to remember that He is the Overcomer and it is faith in His power that will pull me through. I appreciate you fellowship brother. John 16:33 These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world." 1 John 4:4 You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. In Him, Eagle One |
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