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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | continued pursuit, or saving faith | Bible general Archive 4 | Beja | 213709 | ||
must believe that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him. Do you think that this refers to something after salvation in the sense that after we are saved we must continue to believe that he is worth further pursuit. A believe without which we will never seek Him thus living in a way that pleases Him. Or do you think this is drawing out the fact that for salvation you must not only have faith that He exists but you must also have faith that He will carry out His promised reward of "salvation." Both are true I believe, the question is which do you think the author of Hebrews is trying to convey. In Love, Beja |
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2 | continued pursuit, or saving faith | Bible general Archive 4 | CDBJ | 213710 | ||
Greetings Beja, I believe the verse in Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. The word "cometh" in the first half of the verse is the Koine Greek word (proserchomai). The preposition (pros) at the first of the word designates going toward God. The word is used in the present tense, those coming now, and in the middle voice, which means that the one coming is participates in the action of the verb and the accusative case, it is caused. This would apply to the doctrine of God actually calling the one coming. This gets one started in the right direction with their faith. Once the put their FAITH in the one God appointed, Jesus God’s Son, they become a new creature able to grow further in the knowledge of just who Jesus is. 2 Peter 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen. This is impossible apart from having a living spirit, which is given at the point of salvation to live the spiritual way of life. 1 Cor. 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. Faith doesn’t actually grow, as it were, but the content of our faith increases as we learn more and more about the Living Word and the written Word and it’s all a function of God’s matchless grace. My take on the subject, CDBJ |
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3 | continued pursuit, or saving faith | Bible general Archive 4 | Beja | 213712 | ||
Mmmmm, the best I can tell from your post you are saying it means just the second of the two options I presented, the one about it referring to salvation. However, I'm not really sure that's what you said. I'm afraid I couldn't follow it very well, so correct me if I'm misunderstanding you. As far as the greek word that word is what we call "deponent." Meaning that it is a word that does not have a present tense form and as a result the fact that it seems to be in the middle tense does not merit a middle tense interpretation but rather an active sense. So it should be treated as an active verb. So it is not interpreted as something that is caused, at least not by any grammatical reason. And I don't think that it is accusative due to it being acted upon, it is accusative because it is a subject of the infinitival imperative (must believe.) The kind Mr. Tim that frequents this forum can correct me if I'm mistaken as he seems to have a better handle on greek than I do. Finally, let me suggest that it is both of these two things that I put forward in my original question. I think it does apply to salvation and I think it does apply to continual instinces of pleasing God. The same faith that we are saved by is the same faith we are to continue to please God by living by. I did not intend this to be a trick question that I knew the answer to but since I posted it I found a sermon by spurgeon that suggested this answer that I was already begginning to expect. He drew both truths out of this verse. But, perhaps I'm wrong. I do thank you for your input. In Love, Beja |
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4 | continued pursuit, or saving faith | Bible general Archive 4 | CDBJ | 213714 | ||
Hi Beja. This is exactly how I arrived at the conclusion. It’s from my Interlinear Bible and here it is verbatim. Verb: Participle Tense: Present Voice: Middle or passive deponent Case: Accusative Gender: Masculine Person: ---- Number: Singular The word “cometh” PROSERCHOMENON Definition from Strong’s proserchomai, from Greek 4314 (pros) and Greek 2064 (erchomai) (including its alternate); to approach, i.e. (literal) come near, visit, or (figurative) worship, assent to (as soon as he) come (unto), come thereunto, consent, draw near, go (near, to, unto). Now you know the rest of the story, have fun anyway. Like I stated, it was my take on it, but it wasn’t exactly a guess, CDBJ |
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5 | continued pursuit, or saving faith | Bible general Archive 4 | Beja | 213725 | ||
After reading over my last post to you, I can see I was pretty horridly unclear, I usually am when trying to explain greek. I understand greek in my head but I do a poor job of explaining it, I'll try once more, not for any reason of trying to be right, or trying to win an arguement, but simply because reading over my last post it was painfully unclear. First, the list you posted is true: Verb: Participle Tense: Present Voice: Middle or passive deponent Case: Accusative Gender: Masculine Person: ---- Number: Singular That's all true. My point's were two. First: Middle/passive deponent This by definition means a word that has a middle/passive form, but an active function. Second: An accusative, while often does have the sense of being acted on, is often used as the subject of an infinitive phrase; and in such instances it looses that "acted upon" sense and instead is treated simply as a subject. Now, I may be completely missing your original arguement, but your arguement seemed to go something like this to me, if I'm wrong I'm sorry: Your arguement was based on the participle "He who comes" being middle and accusative and the particular emphasis of idea that gives it. What I am trying to say, is that it being deponent, and being used as the subject of the infinitive, does NOT change that it is middle and accusative, but it DOES change the function of those. Meaning they do not carry the typical emphasis' that they normally do. Now, I don't know if you know greek or not. I'm not sure if you are just using a greek tool, or you've actually had some classes in greek, but the above statements are true. If you do know greek I point you to "Greek Grammer beyond the basics" by wallace, I can look up page numbers for you tommorrow if you want me to. If you don't know greek I know of no way to prove these things to you and we'll just have to disagree. But I hope in the least that this clarifies what I was trying to say, and I"m not trying to argue against these being in the middle/passive deponent voice and in the accusative case. In Love, Beja |
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6 | continued pursuit, or saving faith | Bible general Archive 4 | CDBJ | 213745 | ||
Hello Beja, Cutting to the chase with regards to your question: You stated; “Or do you think this is drawing out the fact that for salvation you must not only have faith that He exists but you must also have faith that He will carry out His promised reward of "salvation." What He promises he is able to perform to the uttermost. If He did the most for us at salvation, now that we are His children, shall He not now do much more then the most! My answer is yes that is what I believe. Now to this part of the question: “Do you think that this refers to something after salvation in the sense that after we are saved we must continue to believe that he is worth further pursuit.” I don’t believe that particular verse, Heb. 11:6 is suggesting a particular action after salvation BUT if my faith in Him doesn’t result in a continuous trust in His promises, i.e. the content of faith I will be one miserable believer. I think the happiest people in this world are true believers in Christ; then on the other hand the most miserable people on this earth are also believers in Christ that live their life out of fellowship. I don’t see faith as something that grows or the necessity for it. What needs to grow is the content of our faith. 2 Peter 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen. I haven’t even enlarged my faith, per se, to the size of a mustard seed yet but what I fear is that I might neglect to claim by faith, any of the promises that my Father has for me. Hebrews 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. My salvation through faith in Christ Jesus only makes me eligible to enter into God day by day rest, claiming by faith His numerous provisional promises that provide God’s perfect rest in my life. This stresses the need for a daily intake of Bible doctrine, i.e. assimilation of God’s precious Word not just reading it. I think this answer is more in keeping with the KISS objective that’s needed on the forum but I'm guilty of starting to problem. CDBJ |
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7 | continued pursuit, or saving faith | Bible general Archive 4 | Beja | 213748 | ||
CDBJ Your statement: "I don’t see faith as something that grows or the necessity for it." 1thessalonians 1:3 "We ought always to give thanks to God for you, brethren, as is only fitting, because your faith is greatly enlarged.." 2 Corinthians 10:15 "not boasting beyond our measure, that is, in other men's labors, but with the hope that as your faith grows, we will be..." In Love, Beja |
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8 | continued pursuit, or saving faith | Bible general Archive 4 | CDBJ | 213760 | ||
I know how it appears but it is the content within that faith being one. CDBJ |
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