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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | RAPTURE | Bible general Archive 3 | KALUMBA | 165561 | ||
1.When does Rapture take place, is it before tribulation or after tribulation? 2.Is the rapture going a secert one or everybody will know what has taken place? I need answers supported with scriptures. thanks |
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2 | RAPTURE | Bible general Archive 3 | kalos | 165582 | ||
Does the Bible Teach an "Any Moment" Rapture? 'WHAT ABOUT IMMINENCY? '...the doctrine of imminency is nowhere taught in Scripture. The concept that Christ could return at "any moment" since His departure back to heaven is simply not taught anywhere in the entire Bible. Not one of the passages used to sustain imminency, actually teach imminency. Expectancy, yes. Imminency (an any-moment rapture), no. 'If imminency had been the concept that the writers had wanted to convey, it could have and would have been clearly stated (in fact 19th century promoters of pretribulationism initially taught expectancy rather than imminency for this reason). In addition, there were many events prophesied by Christ, known throughout the Christian world at that time, that still had to occur before He could return, such as the destruction of the Temple (Lk. 21:6) and the death of Peter (Jn. 21:18-19). Imminency was an impossibility until the Temple was destroyed in 70 A.D. 'Likewise, Christ taught that His rescue of the elect of God will occur "on the same day" that His wrath will begin upon the wicked that remain (Lk 17:26-30). There is no gap of time between the rapture and His wrath. If the seventieth week of Daniel is really the wrath of God, as pretribulationism maintains, and the seventieth week begins with Israel's covenant with Antichrist (Dan. 9:27), then Israel must be back in the land AND ANTICHRIST MUST BE ON THE WORLD SCENE BEFORE the Rapture, a simple deduction which once again destroys the unbiblical concept of imminency. 'But the prewrath position has no problem with any of these passages, including Revelation 12:12, where the persecution of Antichrist against the "elect" of God during the great tribulation is not called the wrath of God, but rather, the wrath of Satan. Pretribulationism makes Antichrist's persecution of God's elect the wrath of God. Prewrath rapturism sees this great persecution as the wrath of Satan (Rev. 12:12). Antichrist's persecution of God's elect is never the wrath of God (Mt. 24:21-22; Rev. 12:7; 13:7; 14:12-13).' ____________________ Questions for a Pretribulationist (Emphasis added.) 'By Robert Van Kampen and Rev. Roger Best (www.solagroup.org/ articles/endtimes/et_0006.html) |
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3 | RAPTURE | Bible general Archive 3 | mark d seyler | 165583 | ||
Hi Kalos, How can you possibly have expectancy without immenency? Mar 13:33 Watch! Be wakeful, and pray. For you do not know when the time is. Mar 13:34 As a man going away, leaving his house, and giving his slaves authority, and to each his work (and he commanded the doorkeeper, that he watch), Mar 13:35 then you watch, for you do not know when the lord of the house is coming, at evening, or at midnight, or at cockcrowing, or early; Mar 13:36 so that he may not come suddenly and find you sleeping. Mar 13:37 And what I say to you, I say to all. Watch! The doorkeeper knows that the master is not returning suddenly if he knows that the master will come only after the newspaper slaps the porch. He does not have to watch for the returning master. He only needs to start watching once he hears the whump of the daily news. Just as the one who believes that Jesus will not come until after the abomination of desolation, for instance. They only need start watching for Jesus once they have seen the abomination standing in the Holy Place. And so imminence IS clearly taugh in the doctrine of expectancy. Because expectancy relies on imminence, and to try to remove imminence from expectancy makes expectancy no longer expectant. Love in Christ, Mark |
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4 | RAPTURE | Bible general Archive 3 | kalos | 165608 | ||
"How can you possibly have expectancy without imminency?" Ask a woman in the first trimester of her pregnancy. Mark: Does a woman who is expecting a baby believe that at "any moment" the baby could be born? Is it likely that at any moment in the nine months of her pregnancy the baby is going to appear? Perhaps you hadn't noticed, but usually I do not engage in lengthy one-on-one debates, especially debates about prophecy. Nothing personal. Grace to you, Kalos |
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5 | RAPTURE | Bible general Archive 3 | mark d seyler | 165633 | ||
Hi Kalos, I feel that our time in history right now would be comparable to the 9 1/2 month point. That is why I am so excited to be alive today, to see the Bible coming to life in nearly every newscast and every newpaper. To answer your question about expectancy, the pregnant woman is expecting, and not at "any moment", as she is waiting for certain things to happen first, such as the calender ticking past a few more months. Jesus' parables taught to be waiting, because you do not know when He is coming, maybe early, maybe late. We don't know what the time lapse will be as the pregnant woman does, at least to a degree. So expectant, yes, but expectant for the baby to come along later. I hadn't noticed, but now that you mention it, I will not take it personally if you do not continue in this discussion. :-) With that in mind, I appreciate all the more the responses you have given me. I may add a few more short notes as I read what you have written, as I have noticed you have posted some responses. I will not think anything untoward should you not be inclined to reply. This is of course a topic of which there are differing views, and I feel that we have made a good showing towards presenting a couple of them, with some of the difficulties involved depending on what one may think. And again, God bless you my brother! Love in Christ, Mark |
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