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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Why ask Why? Why ask Where? | Bible general Archive 2 | kalos | 126203 | ||
Theo-Minor: You write: "We are not under the Law." What do you mean by that? I know the Bible says that, but what do you take that to mean? How does it apply to us? Grace to you, kalos |
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2 | Why ask Why? Why ask Where? | Bible general Archive 2 | Theo-Minor | 126206 | ||
Hey kalos ... What I see is that the law (written) is a stumbling block. The law (Torah or otherwise) creates a list of dos and don'ts that most (all actually, except Jesus) people can't live up to. There are two specific purposes I see for the existence of a written law. 1) Instruction. It is to teach the loveless how to love. Thus Jesus' concluding statement to the Sermon on the Mount: "Therefore (i.e. to sum it all up), do to others as you would have them do to you (i.e. love your neighbor as yourself), for this is the law and the prophets." He later says that all the law the prophets are dependent upon the two great commandments (love God, love your neighbor) for their existence. (Master, what is the greatest commandment ...) He concludes his ministry by giving us a final commandment; one that is new. Love one another as he loved us. By this will all men know that we are his disciples. Paul says that the goal of their instruction is love from a pure heart, clear conscience, and sincere faith (or conviction). Paul says that any commandment we have, whether do not kill, do not steal, do not commit adultery ... "or if there be any other commandment," it is summed up by this: namely, love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no ill to your neighbor, so love is the fulfilling of the law. John says that if we love our brother, we walk in the light, and there is no occasion of stumbling in us. To put it all together: Love your neighbor as yourself is what the law and the prophets mean; all the law and the prophets depend upon love for their existence; love fulfills the law; the Apostles' instruction was with the goal of love in mind; if we love, there is no reason for us to stumble. Thus, if we love, which fulfills the OT Law, adheres to the commandment of Christ, meets the full expectations of the Apostles' teachings, and prevents us from stumbling since we walk in the light, we do well, having fulfilled the Royal Law by the scripture "love your neighbor as yourself." Now, as we know, all scripture is profitable for correction, doctrine, reproof, etc. This goes back to the first aspect of this item. It is profitable for teaching the loveless how to love. Those that understand real love will not kill someone else, steal from them, sleep with their wife, or even do something so small as to call them names (Rakka ... thou fool). This is simply not the attitude of love. 2) We need the law to die. Jesus had to die in order to fulfill the law. If you recall Elisha when he was being killed, he cursed everyone. When Jesus was being killed, he forgave them; love to the utmost extreme. He fed the hungry, clothed the naked, healed the sick, comforted the hurting, gave to the poor ... He was meek, mild, humble ... willing to teach, eager to do good, did not seek his own gain, was without pride ... All of these things are qualities of love. It really had nothing to do with the written law. He did it that way because love was the point. Because of the written law, he had to suffer all things in order to live up to the fullest standard of the law, which was love. The law is death. If there had been a law that could have made righteous, then righteousness would have come by the law. Because righteousness did NOT come by the law, it must be concluded that no such law existed that could have made us righteous. We have to trust in the righteousness of Jesus Christ. Our own righteousness is dirt, and nothing we can do will ever measure up, because all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Because of all this ... because the law is death to us, we had to die, just like Christ had to die. In baptism, we go down in imitation of his death, and we come up in the newness of life. As the written law was nailed to the cross with Christ, so too as we nail our old man to the cross, the old man that was subject to the law died. Now, raised up in the newness of life, we are dead to the law, and hence, dead to sin. The law identifies sin. Therefore, as quoted in a previous post, Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to all those that believe. If we put ourselves back under the law, sin is suddenly reidentified, revived within us, and we die spiritually. Without a written law, there is no identification of sin. Where there is no law, there is no transgression. Theo-Minor Continued .... |
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3 | Why ask Why? Why ask Where? | Bible general Archive 2 | Theo-Minor | 126207 | ||
Continued .... To say that we are no longer under the law is to say that we are no longer subject to the dos and don'ts, except where brotherly love dictates the behavior befitting a disciple of Christ. Laws that have nothing to do with brotherly love are manmade. In the words of Paul, "If you are dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are you subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?" Adhering to the teachings of Christ, and of the Apostles, our commandments must be summed up by brotherly love. If they are not, they are not commandments of God. Such pointless commandments and doctrines are nothing more than stumbling blocks, and I'll give you an example taken directly from Bible study at my house last night: Ben, who was an absolute "Law is valid; must keep the commandments" advocate, is slowly but surely coming around, because none of his arguments can stand up under sound doctrine. He has finally come to a point where he has conceded that love is the law, the law means to love. There is no passage that says we still have to sin. He has acknowledged that it is possible to live without sinning under a doctrine of love. He has acknowledged that any law we have must be summed up by love, and hence, that we must have no other commandment but to love one another, for this is not only the commandment of Christ, but also the fulfillment of the law. Then after all that acknowledgment and recognition of plain scripture that, try as he would, he could not refute, he says, "I still disagree, sort of. There are other commandments we have to keep, like taking the Lord's Supper." Now, if I am following the doctrine of Christ, knowing, trusting, hoping, and believing that if I am obedient in love that I will be approved of God, and there is now this commandment laid before me ... Say I went to church this last Sunday, but didn't take the Lord's Supper. It wasn't sin to me then. But if I believe now in this "command" and put myself "under the law" according to the traditions and doctrines of men, then this new law has just identified sin in a sense that love could never identify, and this is contrary to the commandment of Christ. Now, suppose, knowing now that I have to take the Lord's Supper, that I already had plans to do something this Sunday. I'm now faced with the option of being obedient to God by going to church and taking the Lord's Supper, or going about my plans. Let's say I chose to go about my plans. I have now willfully sinned, and according to Hebrews, if we willfully sin after coming to the full knowledge of the truth, there is no more sacrifice concerning sin. So what am I to do? I have just insulted the spirit of grace through which I am saved ... and this because someone placed a stumbling block before me; that being a commandment of men, and not a commandment of God (which would be summed up by brotherly love to begin with). So because he gave me the law, put me under its grasp, sin was recognized, sin revived, I was put back into a fleshly mind, I sinned, and I died, because the wages of sin is death. Do not be fooled, God is not mocked. Whatever a man sows, that also will he reap. All in all, I'm not saying we should run around being scumbags. There is a great amount of freedom in the doctrine of love (thus the reason both Peter and Paul have to give the warning not to "use our freedom as an occasion for fleshly vices"), but the doctrine of love adheres absolutely to the Old and New covenants in their most thorough applications. You don't need to know, "Do not murder." You will love your neighbor as yourself and not kill him. By the standard of "do to other as you would have them do to you ..." Tell me how you would feel if someone vaunted themselves above you. It creates envy, strife, jealousy, anger, etc. So because you don't want someone else to feel that way if you are under a doctrine of love, you don't exalt yourself over someone else. It's all really simple, and it's not a hard doctrine to follow. Point of fact, it's easy to live without sin by this standard, and with this is mind, consider two separate statements: For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. We know we know God if we keep his commandments, and they are not burdensome. Modern doctrines teach perpetual sin and human imperfection, but the Bible teaches that the old man is dead, we are free from the laws that bring about death, we are perfected in Christ, and that sin is no longer our master. Questions or comments? Theo-Minor |
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4 | Why ask Why? Why ask Where? | Bible general Archive 2 | kalos | 126208 | ||
Theo-Minor: I appreciate your taking the time to answer my question. I can see that a lot of careful thought has gone into your reply. I now think I understand your position better than I did before. Grace and shalom, kalos |
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5 | Why ask Why? Why ask Where? | Bible general Archive 2 | Theo-Minor | 126210 | ||
Hey ... that's all we can really ask for eh? It's a never ending process of learning, and I look forward to someone teaching me something new every day. I'm hoping you'll have some good (hopefully positive) input into what I've said. And by all means, poke holes in it if holes can be poked (just be nice *laugh*). I'm far more interested in the truth than in my pride. Theo-Minor |
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